Smith & Wesson 94 & Chubb Detainer (Arrest) question

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi.
Yes I do believe the Model 94 can be picked with the right sized pen body or its cap.
About a year ago, there was a much publicized story of crooks stealing bikes by using a Bic pen. The internet was full of video clips showing how this was being done. I was watching this and couldn't believe what I was seeing. These guys were inserting the pen barrel into the Ace lock cylinder and turning it just as if it were a key. Kryptonite, who makes the majority of these bike locks had to eliminate the Ace lock cylinders and use a more conventional one. As a locksmith with plenty of years behind me, I could not logically see how this was happening. There is no way that this could be happening. I finally figured out the missing factor that did allow for this picking to take place. The news and video shots of this picking failed to mention that the pen had to be heated up close to its melting point. This would allow each of the 7 pins inside the lock to be pushed down and locked into their designated depth which would allow the cylinder to rotate and open the lock. The pliable plastic would allow for this.
The S&W 94 has a similar lock but it had only 4 tumblers in it. The same technique should work for this style as well. This should actually be easier than the regular Ace lock.
I have never tried picking a lock this way as I like to use a very precision pick and it allows me to make a key from it once the lock has been picked. I do not believe that all Ace locks or the 94 could be picked with certainty or regularity. It would more likely take a few tries with many pen barrels or caps to get the lock to pick.

The Chubb Detainer has, in my opinion, the highest security lock of any handcuff ever made. Picking that cuff would take many many hours. It would require more luck than skill in this case.

Hope this helps

mark
O--O

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi Mark,

is it possible that you mean the Chubb Escord and not the Detainer, when writing about "the highest security lock of any handcuff ever made"?

Best regards to sunny San Diego from cold Bavaria,
Guenter aka Atame

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

oops, "Escort" not "Escord", of course!

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hello Mark I thank you for your quick answer.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi,

It may interest yuou to know that the prison system here in Canada for many years used the model 94 for transport purposes due to it's higher security lock.

Not any more!

All of that came to a close when it was discovered that resouceful inmates were discovering that they could open the cuff by making a "rocker pick" of sorts out of Colt or Old Port cigarillo plastic cigar tips.

They would knaw a few notches into the plastic tip and then jam it over the key post.

Once this was done they would rock it slightly back and forth while applying turning tension.

Turned out the plastic was not brittle and would serve as something of a tension wrench while the chewed bits aligned the pins!

It worked on many worn and used 94's that had lost any sort of fine tollerances in the lock.

Strange but true!

Steve Santini

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi both the standard key and prison keyed models can be easily opened with a piece of wire.
The only difference between the two in an increment difference but the key cuts are the same configuration
( just one increment lower than the other )

I am hearing rumour that the Escort cuff can be opened quite quickly also. I am trying to seek further information but I believe John Falle has a tool which would do the task.

Ian McColl

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

check out this:
http://www.security.org/lss-tour/video_files.htm

the Chubb escort cuff has an AVA mechanism,
search down the list for AVA.

Ian

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

hi all, alex nichols once told me that chris gower picked a pair of chubb escorts, he said he saw them in the open position with out the key in the lock! (an imposible thing to do as the key needs to be in the lock!), is this true chris?....ttfn, chris.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi Chris,

Chris Gower sent me the pick he had used for picking open a Chubb Ava padlock and the same padlock. He said how it was to be done and I did it, it took less than 5 minutes and quicker with more practice.

I have tried the same with the Chubb escort and haven't been successful.

Ian

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Yes it os true that I have picked open the Chubb Escort Handcuffs.
As Ian said the small Chubb AVA mechanism padlocks can be picked open normally in less than 3 minutes using a thin T shaped pick and a raking action with slight turning tension.
The problem comes with the larger padlocks and Handcuffs. These have either 10 discs (earlier models or 9 discs on the latter models) and they also have anti-pick notces on the discs. There are 3 different discs, although 5 different cuts on the key - cuts 1&5 and 2&4 are the same disc but reversed.
To pick open the handcuffs and decode it was necessary to make a secure jig to hold the cuffs absolutely upright without any movement, it was then necessary to decide what the cuts were on the 1st disc - this was a little hit and miss but once decided using a 2nd L shape indexed pick it was possible to position the other discs until the cuffs opened. It still took over 10 hours and even having decoded the cuffs took about 10 attempts to cut a working key and that was using the recommended key cutting machine.
I have had the pleasure to meet John Falle and his picks really are out of this world eg he sold me a pin decoder pick which sends a very thin wire up the side of the pins and measures their height!! His AVA pick works on a different principle to my opening method and although I was a member of the British Locksmith Institite its sale is restricted to Government officials.
Chris Gower
PS seems there are 2 Chris's from England where are you from Chris?

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi.
Yes Guenter, I stand corrected. I did mean to discuss the Escort model Chubb cuff. Thanks for clarifying this error.

The Detainer rightfully should be among the most difficult cuff to pick open, but I considered the Escort to be near impossible. The picking skills of Chris and Ian demonstrates that anything man can make---a man can pick. Very impressive guys! I was not aware that a pick existed that could pick this style lock. In lieu of this discovery, I wonder if the Peerless 710 might be considered the most pick resistant cuff ever made. I have heard of and met a young girl at the WCLC show 2 years ago that claimed that she can pick Medeco mortise cylinders with a high degree or certainty. She and her family told of a trip to Tahiti complements of Medeco after demonstrating her ability. It was hard to believe and wonder if any of you know of this or any other proven Medeco lock compromise.

mark O--O

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Mark, many people have picked Medeco locks. I have picked them before, Santini has done it, and so has Ian. With all of the new and improved stuff that has come out in recent years, like Assa, Kaba, Schlage Primus, Abus Plus, Abloy, and Mul-T-lock (not to mention all of the electronic and biometric stuff that is out now) I didn't think that picking the old Medeco Biaxial stuff was even a big deal any more.


Cheers, Mike

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

hi chris, thanks for the answer to my question, i was surprised to hear that the chubb was pickable back then, (6 plus years ago), it would seem that we should have met at some point, we both know jim stewart and alex nichols... plus a few others, i will be back in england for christmas, (i live in b.c. canada now), a trip to alex's is planned, perhaps we may yet meet...a visit to jims is also a possibility.....ttfn.c.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

I haven't heard of these successful attempts at picking Medeco locks before. I would love to hear about each of these triumphs.
Some questions:
How many pins were in the cylinder?
Was it 1st generation Medeco or was it Biaxial?
What type of cylinder was it?
Do you think that you can pick the new m3 cores?

Thanks for sharing your Medeco victories here.

mark
O--O

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Mark, I can only speak for myself and my own experiences here. My lock was a 6-pin Biaxial with a fully funcional side bar and mushroom and standard drivers. It was/is a padlock that I bought from my old boss at Blue Star Safe and Lock in Dearborn Hts. It was a trade-in lock that had been laying around the shop for some time and it only had one key. If I dig around a little bit, I have some pictures of the lock and a close up of the turned plug; I can e-mail them to you when I find them.

As far as their new stuff, I have opened the "KeyMark" cylinder once....but that is nothing more than an akward keyway, a mushroom driver in every other pin-chamber, and a very tight tolerance. I have not seen the newest line yet so I can't say weather I might be able to pick it or not. I don't spend nearly as much time picking as I did years ago. I picked the Medeco for the first time back in Aug. 2001 and once I did that, it was almost like reaching the top of the mountain. A few months ago, I spent a couple of hours working on a Medeco IC core mortise cylinder but, I didn't have any luck. Just to keep my skills up, I started playing around with some regular pin tumbler locks with mushroom drivers and did quite well. I'm not as quick as I use to be but, I still turned all of the plugs.

Give me your e-mail address and I will put you on my contacts list. You can send me a hello e-mail and I can get it that way if you want. My e-mail is mindhunter42 at hotmail dot com.


Cheers, Mike

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi Mark, Medeco is a nice lock to pick. I have had about ten cylinders to play with and picked about half of them. Due to the manufacturing process, some you can and some you cannot, within a minute you can work out if you should be able to or not.

Of those you work out csan be picked, you will either have to pick sidebar first or inline pins first. Then work on the other. rotating the pins is not a problem as you run the pick in the edge of the keyway and this rotates the pins by nature of their beveled point.

Bi axial is no harder than regular, nothing has been changed within the actaul lock, only the bevel of the pin being fore or aft, the rest is the same.

The easiest to pick are the cam locks without top pins and the above mentioned cylinder were all six pin.

All the locks picked by myself were at my leisure, while in a relaxed state and comfortable position and not fitted to doors with customers telling me it's quciker on TV" or being outide in stormy weather.

Ian
PS Mark, do you want a list of all the high security cylinders I have picked. I used to keep a list and letter from locksmtihs who would provided me the cylinders or padlocks and a letter to say i had picked them.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Mark, I e-mailed you some photos of the Medeco lock mentioned above. If you fail to get them or anything, let me know so I can resend them.


Cheers, Mike

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Amazing Michael,
You are amazing! I did get the pictures of the picked lock. Although it is very easy to pin up a plug and insert it into the cylinder housing in a 45 degree angle to make it look like it was picked, I will believe you, Ian and Chris when you tell me that you guys have done it. I have been selling Medeco for over 25 years and my stores have one of the top 10 highest gross Medeco sales in Southern California, but I never even heard of one being picked except for the young girl at the lock show.
Of course my sales reps don't discuss this on their own initiative, but I will ask them the next time they come around.
I remember trying to pick one long ago, but I only gave it a modest attempt.
The new m3 design should make it more challenging as there is now an added push bar that interlocks with the sidebar. I have been selling this new version for only a month now.
If anyone can pick this model, it would really be something extraordinary.
I will have to give this brand lock another picking attempt soon. I will try it with 3 pins at first and work my way up to 6.
Thanks you guys for bringing this to my attention.

mark
O--O

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi Mark, I would love to try this new medecom, could you send me any info so I would know what I am up against and a cylinder without keys. I would love to see if i can post it back unlocked.

Ian

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

I hereby challenge Ian to pick a Medeco m3 padlock.
I will send a locked padlock to you and an uncombinated cylinder to you so you can see how the interconnected side bar works.
You must do this while under water in a croc infested river with no air supply and a pair of mirror cuffs locked upon your wrists. Well, either that or in the comfort of your home or workshop...your choice.
I will try to get them out along with your Christmas present by the end of the month.

mark
O--O

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Mark, that was too funny! I haven't laughed that hard in a while! I can't wait to meet you in person, we are going to get along famously!


Cheers, Mike

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi Mark, thank you for your generous offer.I would love the challenge and it will be better than visiting the relatives for Xmas. I have filled the bath in anticipation for the underwater bit. I fear that it will take a while and I may look like a prune after being in water for too long.

Michael, I have met mark and laughed so hard I could burst. He like me has a dark sense of humour and I may not think you would laugh too much. more like grit your teeth.

What Mark writes here is for public consumption only, this isn't the good stuff.

Ian

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Ian, you and I have not met either.....I am as dark and as warped as they come. People grit their teeth around me too. LOL!


Cheers, Mike

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Cool! That's make threee of us in the world.(LOL)

Ian

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Yep, Chris Gower certainly has picked open one cuff of a pair of Escorts. I've seen them on several occasions, handled them and never fail to be amazed at his efforts. Well done Chris.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

I have read so many remarks about opening this cuff with a pen or even an ace/barrel pick set.
Magicians, escape artist and enthusiasts, there is something that most people use that is located in the average bathroom (a device) that can open these model 94's with absolute ease.
I never devulge secrets because I believe that it shouldn't NEVER/EVER be done. This ruins the mystery and suspense of a true escapologist and his/her personal skills. What is wrong with the people who do it?
I will leave a mystery though.
Try to figure this out.
Hint: It is not made of medal or plastic.

HOUDENNY (master escapologist)

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

TP roll.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Hi,

Annon is correct. You can pick open S&W 94's and ace style locks with the card tube from a roll of toilet paper.

I've also used the top of a cheap pen but never found a suitable pen body. The tops are usually much softer material than the pen itself. Possibly if the pen was heated it may work.

I'm sure Steve is right when he mentions cigarillo plastic cigar tips as been suitable but as an ex smoker I don't think I’ll be trying it.

Congratulations also to Chris, Ian, Mike and all the other lock maestros who visit here.

Mark (RMP)

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Sorry about the anonymous post, it was me....I was in a wicked rush.

Cheers, Mike

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Can anyone tell me what the trick is to pick these cuffs without the key? Double locked of course.
I know the key is pretty much a normal shaft with a flat spot on it (normal handcuff key) but instead of it being one big flat spot, its about 4, each smaller than the last (or bigger?).

How does the internals of the lock work? does it only use one of these to do the work, and the keyway is just shaped to block any wrong key from doing it too? Or is it more complex than that?

Is there a patent number or diagram I can look at? I will have access to the key soon, but it will impress my friend if Im free from these before he comes over with it.

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

Nice explanations here, but in german :

http://www.andys-handschellensammlung.d ... tainer.htm

Hello I will like to know if it is true that one can open of Smith & Wesson model 94 with a pen or if it is a rumour? Also I would like to know if Chubb Detainer (Arrest) are hard or easy to open without key? Are Chubb Detainer of good handcuffs? Thanks.

The Chubb Arrest Handcuffs were patented both in the US and the UK. Probably the easiest one to look up on Google Patents is the US4694666 (the UK number is GB8431516)
The patent was granted on 22nd September 1987.