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Joe, please help me

28 visible archived posts · 28 preserved total · topic ID 1068
Original topic ↗Recovered images
larho01 16 Jan 2006
#1
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
Joe Lauher 16 Jan 2006
#2
Hi Lars

Your cuffs are interesting. The first one looks like it might be a brass version of one of the WWII era backstrap Darbies, like those made by RCS. But the swivel is big like those from southern asia. Weird stuff.

Your second one could be most anything. The key looks like a 19th century key, but who know who made the cuff. No markings is always a problem.

As for the annual, you contribution on Swedish handcuffs is an important contribution, as are your photos for Gordon's article on Bean handcuffs.
You and the other contributors will be getting the first copies.

cheers
Joe
Anonymousini 16 Jan 2006
#3
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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SO we see dat LARS iss the one to buy cuffs off ebay so the rest of us do not haf a chance to bid.
A
larho01 16 Jan 2006
#4
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi Joe,

Thanks a lot for having a look! Weird stuff, thatÂ’s for sure!

We are all looking forward to get the Handcuff Annual 2006. The CannonÂ’s better be prepared with many books in stock since this book will be awesome. IÂ’m especially interested in BradÂ’s chapter about H&R and GordonÂ’s about Bean.

Cheers,

Lars
Chris Gower 17 Jan 2006
#5
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
Click to expand...
Hi Lars
Glad to find out who got the brass handcuffs on ebay. I was very interested in bidding on them as I believe them to be RCS cuffs. Do you have a set of the strap hinge RCS cuffs in your collection? Does the key nearly fit?
I know that RCS did make brass handcuffs (I have seen a set on a Leather Body Belt) and they also made Brass Leg-irons which had no markings on them - Patterson Smith sold them in his catalogue back in 1959 - 1963
Ref the iron cuffs, is it possible they have a left hand threaded key? I have come across 4 sets with left hand key in my 35 years of collecting so they are 100 times rarer than the standard cuffs. Hopefully we will meet in May this year so I will bring my set with me.
Chris Gower
stan willis 17 Jan 2006
#6
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi Guys:
I also was watching the cuffs on ebay. I don't have the cuff, but do have the Brass LI. Mine is unmarked, except for the British Broad Arrow on both shackles.
Stan
larho01 17 Jan 2006
#7
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi Chris,

I have tried all my threaded keys including two RCS keys (right threaded) and since they are the closest ones to open the cuffs they are likely RCS. However, the threaded part on the original RCR key under the shoulder is too long to manage to open the cuff. I also have another, what I believe to be German, key with the samt thread pattern to work. I did cut off a piece on top to make the part under the shoulder a bit shorter. If you wish, I can bring them to the meeting in May,

Regards,

Lars
Anonymous 17 Jan 2006
#8
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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I was watching the cuffs on ebay too and all of the sudden, they were gone.
I guess that means from now on, anyone selling a nice cuff should be expecting a request to sell it off of eBay, even if it is agaist their rules.
I guess the trick of getting new cuffs for a collection will be to be the first one to ask the seller to sell it early so that all the other handcuff collectors friends will not have a chance to bid on anything good anymore.
I did not realize that this is how things are being done now!
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Anonymousini 17 Jan 2006
#9
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Joe can't help with this. This is nothing new. It has been going on since ebay started. It is as much the greed of the seller to allow it, as it is the buyer to ask. In most cases the busyer gets a very good deal, and the seller screws himself out of a higher price.
Anonymous 17 Jan 2006
#10
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Yes, It is greed on both ends.
I find this behavior repulsive. It is very underhanded and unacceptable. This is why eBay has outlawed this crooked behavior in the first place.
How can one call himself a fellow collector when he is out to deny the other fellows out of a fair shot at a nice cuff when one finally shows up on eBay?
How would anyone who cheats his friends like to be cheated by the same cheap shot?
What if we all wrote to the seller of a quality cuff and denied you of a nice cuff.
Come back to this board and tell me that you approve of this.
larho01 17 Jan 2006
#11
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Yes, what can I say? I admit I did the wrong thing by buying these cuffs off eBay. It just started when I asked the seller a few questions about the cuffs. The seller didnÂ’t know anything about them, asked for the value and suddenly we had a deal. Not too bad for the seller either. Actually, in the heat of the deal I didnÂ’t really realize the consequences. Otherwise I wouldnÂ’t have posted the pictures here, would I?
I was too eager to buy anything. eBay is, as all of you know, not as it used to be. Back in time, the wallet was the limit. Now the items are. IÂ’m very sorry and please accept my excuses to all of you. It won't happen again.

/Lars

Atame 17 Jan 2006
#12
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi Lars,

in my eyes not you are to blame but the seller. Meanwhile it's my opinion that you would be the fool, if you do not try to get an interesting restraint off eBay. If you do not try this yourself then somebody else surely will. If a seller is fair and honest (and clever), he would reject such an offer, if not IMHO it's better me than anybody else, who gets the item then.

Best regards,
Guenter
Anon 18 Jan 2006
#13
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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If you don't care to use your name and you keep posting the way you do. I for one won't take anyone seriously, in fact I will just ignore the posts all together since you want to hide behind it.
patrick-handboeienfreak 18 Jan 2006
#14
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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hi lars and others

first lars what a great items you have
and the others if you have something to say how about lars get his items
please do your name under the topic
anominus bwwaaahhh
you are even bad if you do like that

Lars for you lots of fun with your new stuff and I don't blame you
I'm happy you got it

regards

Patrick
Atame 18 Jan 2006
#15
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi All,

Just one additional thought: our anonymous "friend" wrote:
"I guess the trick of getting new cuffs for a collection will be to be the first one to ask the seller to sell it early so that all the other handcuff collectors friends will not have a chance to bid on anything good anymore."
and
"How can one call himself a fellow collector when he is out to deny the other fellows out of a fair shot at a nice cuff when one finally shows up on eBay? "

But are you really a better fellow collector and friend if you have lots of money, allowing you to overbid most of the other interested bidders and get the item regularly? Is it really a "fair shot", if spending US$ 2,000 for a single cuff does not mean much to you? For some fellow collectors US$ 2,000 is more than they earn in a month - e.g. for the people from Eastern Europe. To try to get a nice cuff off eBay might be the only chance of a less wealthy collector to get a rarer item.

So once again: IMHO only sellers who accept such "indecent proposals" are to blame and NOT the buyers who make them!

Best regards,
Guenter
Mark Lyons 18 Jan 2006
#16
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi Guenter,
You raise an interesting question...but one I will have to dissagree with.
Auctions have always been and always will be won by those with the highest bid. That is how the system was set up and the way it should work. If people see an item they like, they should place a bid on it. If they want it bad enough, they need to bid a little bit more. It is not just my opinion that if I see a nice item for sale, they should have a resonable expectation that it will still be there when they are ready to place a bid.
I did not even see the Brass Darby that started this whole thing (no interest in it as I already have one) but I would have liked to have seen how much money it brought in.
Yes, getting an auction to end early is one way to get items for building a collection, but is it an honest way? No! It isn't. For one thing, it is against ebay rules. There are two rules that cover this topic. The following prohibits an initial email request to even ask if the seller would consider selling it off ebay and the other prohibits the seller from offering it:

*Spam (Unsolicited Commercial Email) - Overview
Spam is not permitted on eBay.
Spam is email that is both unsolicited and commercial in nature.*

_Commercial: The email discusses buying, selling or trading of goods or services._

*Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status"*

I do not ask a seller to end it early, but I am going to start writing to sellers when I see something that I am interested in and ask him to keep the auction running and advise him that he would be shortchanging himself if he does.

I firmly believe that everyone should have a chance at any nice items that comes along. I am prepared to work longer hours to be able to pay for it if I have to.

mark
O--O
Atame 18 Jan 2006
#17
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






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Dear Mark,

I totally agree that ending an auction earlier and selling an item off eBay is against eBay-law. I myself like to see what sometimes incredible prices rare items get, too. All I wanted to question is, if someone is a worse fellow collector, who tries to buy items of eBay - a worse fellow collector than one who overbids other fellow collectors (that's something what I do myself, of course). It seems that eBay is beyond all collector's friendship - eBay is war and as we all know in love and war everything is allowed!

Best regards,
Guenter (mostly honest)
stan willis 19 Jan 2006
#18
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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I think that should be "all is fair in love and war AND ebay". I personally have never asked a seller to stop an auction and sell to me off of ebay, and i don't like the idea of someone else doing it. I am often asked to sell something early when I list it on ebay, and i have never done it and there were times where i would've made more money if I had sold it before the auction ended.
I'm not sure how I feel about the people with the most money winning, but I think that is how auctions work. There are a few items I will pay a premium to get, but in general I bid what i think the item is worth, which may not be what other people think it is worth.
There is another side to the bidding wars. I have seen many bids from other countries where the seller specifies he will only sell to US or only ship to a US address. I assume that some US buyers also bid on European auctions that specify only shipping to Germany or France or another country. I have seen some very nice items on German ebay go to German collectors at very cheap prices.
I don't think any of these practices will ever change, and I don't think it is worth starting WWIII over it. If ALL of us agree to play nice, there are collectors who don't read this forum or who read it and won't agree. There are always new collectors joining ebay, and who knows how dishonest they will be. Good luck to all.
Stan
Jack Tanis 19 Jan 2006
#19
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hello,

Three points to rise.

Point the First. Who cares about eBay's rules? Rules were made to be broken. eBay couldn't care less about you or about me. eBay is arbitrary, capricious, dictatorial and muddled, but only on its better days.

Point the Second. I used to work real world, physical auctions, from modest to medium auction galleries to Christie's. All have favoured customers, reliable regulars who are treated like royalty and for whom the red carpet is rolled out. When they want items below the showcase, featured level, they get them, and they get them for what they want to pay. More times than I can recall, I have seen the auctioneer's hammer fall literally within seconds. It's a time-honoured tradition that comes with the territory.

Point the Third. I have saved a fortune by being outbid routinely. No complaints.

Cheers,

Jack
Mark Lyons 19 Jan 2006
#20
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






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Guenter,
I see your logic. I still feel that a fellow collector is a better friend if he overbids on an item than a collector friend who jumps the gun and makes the item only available to himself. That is socially acceptable and within the guidelines that one agreed to when they signed up.

Jack,
Perhaps you are correct when you say ebay could care less about their members, but a rule is a rule. Breaking it does not make it OK. I am not happy about hearing your insiders scoop on the high priced auction houses, but even though that exists, it is still wrong. I think it stinks. They are ripping off the person who is trying to sell their item for an honest price at an honest auction house and are getting shafted because the auction house they put their trust in, just got greedy. It is wrong, plain and simple.
While I have enjoyed some liberties in my life that were not exactly by the book, I sleep real good at night knowing that I am a 99% team player.

Well, this has been an interesting discussion and I probably won't respond to it anymore. I spoke my piece and I nor anyone else will change any body's way of doing business. I just hoped that all of us could play by the same rules and may the best man win.

mark
O--O



Atame 19 Jan 2006
#21
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






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Hi fellow collectors,

I do not want to fall silent without mentioning some... lets say "social aspects" first.

The United States had the fourth highest per capita Gross National Income (GNI) in the world in 2004 (US$ 41,400), Germany was quite OK with US$ 30,120 (rank 17), but e.g. in Bosnia (rank 93) the GNI was only US$ 2,040 and in China (rank 105) only US$ 1,290 (not to mention Burundi with only US$ 90!). That means that a collector from China with an average income for his country would have to save the complete incomes of 2.5 years to buy a pair of McKenzie Mitts. Imagine, that's comparable to an US buyer who would have to spend more than US$ 100,000 for a McKenzie!

(source http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/globalwor ... capita.htm)

Well, now you could argue that eBay.com belongs to the USA and so everyone has to measure with US standards. But meanwhile the US collectors (as well as the collectors from rich European countries) "invaded" the handcuffs-scenes in other countries, e.g. by participating at local eBay sites. Just one example from my own country. About 8 years ago you could be lucky an get an original Dortmunder at German eBay for less than US$ 200. Meanwhile it is impossible to get one here for less than US$ 2,000. 1.5 years ago a Dortmunder was sold at German eBay for EUR 1,860 (US$ 2,250). The top three bidders all came from USA - the highest European bidder was out at AFAIR EUR 600 (US$ 725).

The US collectors have altered the level of prices for cuffs almost worldwide. Of course, this is also positive for some non US sellers. I know I guy in Romania (rank 72 / GNI US$ 2,920) who made a fortune (based on his country) by selling vintage Romanian police handcuffs to collectors in USA and Western Europe. But none of his countrymen can afford to buy one of these Romanian handcuffs for the price he asks any longer.

To cut a long story short: some people simply have no chance to win an interesting cuff at eBay (even if the they work more and spare more money) - so I comprehend, if they try other ways, which are not always conform to eBay rules (BTW: rules who were simply established to protect eBay from losing money).

Best regards,
Guenter

PS: all those thoughts mentioned above do not apply to the people of Sweden, who are on rank 8 with an GNI of US$ 35,770 in 2004!

PPS: Mark's idea/method to warn dealers of interesting cuffs not to sell their items off eBay is simple but great.
Mark Lyons 20 Jan 2006
#22
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






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Hi Guenter,
I know I said that I wouldn't respond any more on this discussion, and in a way, I am not really continuing with it.
I just want to say that your point is very well researched and thought out. I really do agree with all that you say and the statistics do prove your point that you are trying to convey. I commend you on a well written rebuttal.
My question to you is this: You have indicated that I live in a country that is in 4th place as far as gross income is concerned. In adding to my collection, that income earning placement is a big advantage to me. Being that I earn way more than that average should be another huge advantage to me. Living in the US can be another great advantage if the seller won't ship out of the country. With all of that going for me, do you think it would still be fair for me to even further my chances of getting the goodies by getting the seller to sell it early. Would anyone get upset if I went and did this? After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. (I hope you have a similar saying)
I am not sure is bending ebay rules is the way to go. Better, one should use ebay and this web-site to make friends and trade with one another to get the good stuff. Everyone wins and no bad feelings will fall upon anyone.

mark
O--O
Atame 20 Jan 2006
#23
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Dear Mark,

I really agree to what you rote, too. And no, I think it won't be fair if you further your chances of getting the goodies by getting the seller to sell them early. It's simply a quandary. Strictly speaking there is no fairness at eBay. Some are benefited by simply having more money, others are benefited by having more time to search for auctions and to detect "buy it now" goodies first, because e.g. they are allowed to surf the Web at work (BTW: I am not allowed to do this), some are benefited by speaking more languages and thus are able to better search at local eBay sites, some are benefited by having friends in other countries who can accept items when sellers do not want to ship overseas, some are benefited by being ruthless enough to ignore eBay rules and make "off eBay buy it now" offers etc. What do I want to say? Good question . Maybe that I consider all those people mentioned above still as fellow collectors.

But what I do not forgive is, when a fellow collector betrays me as seller, e.g. by shill bidding at his own auctions and thus raise my bid or especially by not telling me the truth about condition, age, origin and/or value of the item I want to buy. Both things happened to me in the past (but I will not mention names, because I have no airtight evidences).

Best regards,
Guenter
Mark Lyons 20 Jan 2006
#24
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
Click to expand...
Guenter,
I liked having this discussion with you.
You are an asset to this web-site and I consider you one of my most favorite international handcuff collector friend and partner. (even though Petra has a prettier face than you)
I am glad that we have the oppeortunity to do the deals that we do together.
Thanks for all that you do.

mark
O--O
BFW 21 Jan 2006
#25
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
Click to expand...
When I was a kid, my grandfather was the licensed public weigher at a livestock commission house (cattle auction) in Central Texas. During the summers, I'd go to the Tuesday sales with him and hang around the auctioneers trying to learn how to do the "chant." In Texas, auctioneers have to be licensed, and as part of my boyhood education in a career I never followed up on, I learned about traditional auction law and practices.

There are two types of auctions:

(1) A straight auction (also called an auction without reserve). In this, the seller retains no control over the auction. The item goes on the block and if any bid is received, it gets sold. Only if no bids are received does the seller get the item back to again do with as he pleases.

Occassionally, prior to the auction starting, a shady buyer would try to buy directly from the seller "outside the ring" before the auction started. Sellers are permitted to withdraw the item at any time prior to that first bid being placed, but only after the auction commenced (unless an honest seller discovered a previously unknown legitimate problem with the item and contacted the house). Since this would cause the auction house to loose their commission, if the house thought this was going on, they'd stick a guy out in the crowd who would yell "Dollar!" just as the auctioneer knocked to start the auction, thereby receiving a bid before the shady seller had a chance to withdraw the item and sell outside the ring.

This was also perceived as an insult to the seller (although rightly deserved), since in effect the guy who shouted "Dollar" was implying the seller was an underhanded weasel. To avoid a later fistfight, the house would talk to some other sellers and work it out so that "Dollar" got hollered at several auctions before and after the suspect one to avoid the direct insult. But, the fistfights still happened, which added to the general amusement of all.

(2) An auction with reserve. In this, the seller retains full control over the item, reserving the right to call off the auction at any time before the hammer falls, for any reason whatsoever, or no reason at all. (i.e. "I ain't sellin' my prize bull to that lousy so-and-so.")

Auction houses hate reserve auctions and will usually refuse to conduct them since it allows the seller to be a jerk, irritate the bidders, and cause the house to loose their commission by calling off the sale after it's begun but before it ends.

In certain circumstances, the auction house will agree to conduct a reserve auction with the only condition being set is that a minimum price has to be met, what's called a minimum bid auction.

Under traditional auction law, an auction is presumed to be a straight auction unless it is disclosed to be a reserve auction prior to the sale starting. Typically, the auctioneer would announce "with full reserve" or "with minimum bid" to let the bidders know whether they were (a) dealing with a potential jerk seller or (b) merely dealing with a seller who was trying to protect his bank account a little.

As a kid, my initial reaction on learning about a reserve auction was that it wasn't fair somehow, thinking all auctions were straight auctions, which the law presumes to be the case unless stated otherwise. However, once I learned the rules, it was no longer bothersome. Since a reserve auction has to be announced to be one in advance, any bidder knew in advance what he was getting into, provided he knew what the rules actually were, as opposed to what he thought they were.

In my limited experience with eBay, it seems they have blurred these traditional distinctions. I also suspect that a lot of the sellers and buyers out there don't appreciate the difference between a true or full reserve auction as opposed to the minimum bid type. After reading the various posts on this thread, and recalling some very enjoyable times I had some 50 years ago hanging around all those folks (learning how to cuss, spit, pitch pennies and other useful things), I spent some time reading the eBay rules for sellers. They are confusing as the dickens. While they talk about reserve and minimum bids and automatic bids, no where can I find a simple rule along the line of: "Once listed, a seller may not withdraw an item after a bid has been placed."

They do have all sorts of rules preventing sellers from trying to buy something "outside the ring," but nothing much is said about buyers doing this. I guess that's because in the electronic world, they haven't yet figured out a way to get that fellow out in the parking lot for an honest fistfight.

Mark Lyons 21 Jan 2006
#26
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
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Hi.
I didn't thoroughly research the ebay rules but the one rule I saw about buyers requesting the auction to end early was what I documented above: That the initial email to the seller is deemed as an Unsolicited Commercial Email or Spam and that is what ebay finds objectionable and will take action to prevent its recurrence.

I kind of like the idea of the debate in the parking lot. That would settle it once and for all. Just remember, don't bring a knife if it's going to be a gun fight.

mark
O--O





Bruce Thomson 21 Jan 2006
#27
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
Click to expand...
Just back in December, I won my first ebay auction for a handcuff, not bad after not winning for four years. I would get more upset when I lost to a last minute "lurker" than another 'at the starting gate' bidder. When I have listed items that didn't sell I was always contacted afterwards by someone wanting to make a deal, and I would always say I would put it up for auction again and this time, instead of just watching...BID!
Lose with grace.
Win with grace.
Honor your word even if you come up on the short end.

grenchat 21 Jan 2006
#28
I just acquired two Darby handcuffs and none of them is marked. The first set is made of brass and the second one is made of iron. I have tested all my screw-keys in the collection (took some time...) and none of them fits the brass handcuffs or the iron ones. I have searched the surface to find some tiny markings without any result. Joe, please let me know what cuffs I’ve bought. –You are an expert!

BTW; am I one of them who just have to sit and wait for the great Handcuff Annual to arrive in the letter box? IÂ’m not sure about the size of my little contributionÂ…

Cheers,

Lars


holstcollection.com






Maybe the the key pattern could be a clue...
Click to expand...
It had occurred to me that a way to prevent off-site trading would simply be to have all questions/answers to the seller posted in public view with any contact information stripped from the headers. IÂ’ve always wondered why E-Bay allows people to establish direct contact prior to closing, when E-Bay stands to lose additional closing fees should the item become unavailable. Just as with bid retractions, E-Bay can store a running tally of how many times a seller has ended an auction early, but do they set a predefined limit?

Of course, off-site trading has its risks, particularly to the buyer: Should the item turn out to be less than described, or worse yet, never delivered, the buyer may find himself with little or no recourse since PayPal intervention is quite contingent.


Jason