The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Can you identify this set of handcuffs?

24 visible archived posts · 24 preserved total · topic ID 1077

The Amazing Michael 19 Jan 2006

Okay experts, it is time to test your knowledge once again. From this picture alone, can anyone identify these handcuffs?

To me, they appear to be S&W model 100P, but I am not sure. They could also be S&W model 100 pat. pending, with the sliding double lock on only one side, but it is really hard to determine if I am seeing the key hole or the center pin from the back side. It looks like there is something professionally stamped on the cheek plate (it looks very evenly spaced and centered) where the pat. pending model is normally stamped, but again, I am not sure.

I won these cuffs on eBay last night and Lord knows how long it will be before I get them in hand to examine close up. So come on and give your theroies and opinions. I will post a close up photo after I receive them and we will see who was right.

Cheers, Mike

P.S. In the eBay describtion, these cuffs were refered to as "Smith & Wesson brand handcuffs". I am assuming that there is a S&W stamp on these somewhere, but with eBay, if you assume it has been known to make an A$$ out of U-M-E! LOL!!!

Dorson 19 Jan 2006

Mike,
These are the later, the ones with pat. pending with the single slot on the face of the handcuff. If you go back in previous post about these cuffs, http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/t ... y+produced-
You will see the picture, the give away was the oval/elongated instead of the dot for the grooves in the bows. When I looked at the picture in the aforementioned postings, the post for the keyhole was more pronouced. I was also sitting here thinking why did they start with the single slot and then go to the double slot. Well this occurred to me, properly applied handcuffs should have the keyholes facing away from the hands or on top for easy access and away from the prisoner. Well how many cops can't seem to get the cuffs on with keyholes facing the right direction as the manufacturer suggests? So the simple solution is to have it both ways.
Incidently, I was in a courtroom the other day watching deputies cuffing people to be taken to a holding cell or whatever and it was not uncommon to see them apply them backwards. For some of you who don't know what I am talking about, handcuffs should be applied with keyholes facing upward with the bows facing outward from the body.

-Dorson

BFW 20 Jan 2006

While there is a growing body of opinion that holds that my opinion is not worth shucks (at least according to my wife and kids), I, like Dorson, say patent pending 100, single slot on keyway side.

Michael, when you post your photos, I'd be interested in two details:

(1) on the housing, the swivel dome;

(2) on the pawl (single bow), with the ratchets facing to the right, is there a strike or cross-hatch mark across the face at the 8th ratchet?

Hope you didn't get overcharged for shipping and handling.

Phil 20 Jan 2006

BFW, I would be interested in that mark on the pawl. I have a set of model 100's that don't have the model number on them, have the single slot double lock, and there is a mark between the 9th and 10th ratchets on mine. It looks like a tube with a fully round lid and a blob of metal on the bottom (at the edge of the pawl). Serial number is 414792. I'd say it was stamped there on purpose, but why? And why the shape?

Phil

BFW 20 Jan 2006

Phil:

I've been mildly curious about that mark for years. During the last few months after looking at various photos on this site (for example, go look at the link Dorson posted), my curiosity has increased. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. From what I can tell, it completely disappears after the round ditch dimple came about.

I won't buy the argument that it's simply a defect in the stamping die. You can tell that there is no left-hand/right-hand pawl from the way the edges are always more rounded on one side only: the top side with the ratchets to the left. During assembly, they just flipped the thing in the appropriate direction for the left and right cuff. As such, that mark had to be placed there after the pawl was stamped out.

If anything, the one definite thing is: never take engineering classes. You'll wind up asking dumb stuff like this for the rest of your life.

If possible, though, I would like to see a photo of what you described.

stan willis 20 Jan 2006

I have a pair of Model 103 Stainless cuffs with the same mark on the movable bow. They were made about 1983. The instruction booklet makes no reference to the mark. I have no idea why it is there.
Stan

BFW 20 Jan 2006

You know, if I had all the handcuff and firearm boxes and instructions I've thrown away over the years and seen thrown away, I'd be moving to the Bahamas next week.

Stan, the first time I noticed that mark was when I bought a set of M-103's (long dimple)in the early 1980's. Some time later, wanting a matched set, I swapped a buddy for his set. That's when I first noticed the change to the round dimple; also, it didn't have that pawl mark.

For years, I thought that mark was something peculiar to 103's, since I had a set of patent pending 100's without it. In a terribly unscientific fashion, inquiring of other officers, I found it comes and goes on older S&W's. I'm also seeing the same thing on the photos on this site. The only thing I can say is that I've never seen it on a later, round dimple set of cuffs.

For a while, I wondered if it was some type of register mark left when the hole was drilled or bored out. It's always clear and distinct, and intersects the valley of the 8th notch from the top. But, if so, you'd expect to find it all the time.

Something else I've just recently noticed is that when the mark is present, the top tooth on the pawl, at the bow, is larger. It's a full-tooth while the others are a half-tooth.

The Amazing Michael 21 Jan 2006

Maybe the mark was only put on if the bow was put into a certain jig, to be bored out, at the factory???? I would be inclined to believe that there was more than one jig set up at the factory to do this job. Perhaps some wise-acre, like me, thought it would be cute to put a mark on some and not on others....just to make people wonder???? I will make a point to look through my S&W stuff and have a look at this mark for myself. I will report any findings.

Cheers, Mike

P.S. BFW, no, I didn't get taken to the cleaners on the shipping cost. I paid $6.40 for the S&H and $12.& something for the cuffs and cuff case....I would say I got a pretty good deal.

BFW 21 Jan 2006

Michael:

I'd considered the possibility of multiple jigs, but that seems to go against reason. While Smith and Wesson's quality contol did waver there for a while (at least on their firearms), I can't imagine them permitting a burr to remain on a vise or whatever for any extended period of time, or allow a wise-acre like you (your words, not mine, my friend) to remain on the payroll if you kept doing such a thing. There's also that apparent connection between the pawl mark and the top tooth (pawl mark = full tooth, no mark = half-tooth).

Oh, well, the sun's still gonna come up in the morning whether I ever get this figured out or not. Anyone wishing to contribute additional examples are thanked in advance.

Phil 21 Jan 2006

#10

BFW, so that's what those little round things with glass in them are for that screw into the front of the camera - they make little things BIG. Just kidding, I've been doing photography for many years, but this was the first chance I've had to try out the close-up lenses on my digital camera. Now let's see if I can get 2 pictures posted here. I may have to get Joe to help.

Phil

Unresolved image reference ↗

BFW 21 Jan 2006

#11

Phil:

That mark I've never seen.

"Aha!!" said Dr. Watson, "the mystery deepens."

I don't have a digital camera. Well, actually I do, but my son borrowed it a couple of years ago . . . .

I'll try to get it back so I can post a photo.

In the meantime, if you follow the link Dorson posted, go look at the first photo and you can see a little bit of the mark even with the pawl closed. It is a sharp, well-defined mark with crisp edges that goes all the way across the pawl, but not down into the ditch. It looks like it's made with a very sharp, narrow chisel.

I'm pleased you figured out what those round things that came with your camera are for. Although it takes a lot of fun out of life, when all your cunning, intuition and experience fails to provide the solution, break down and read the directions.

Phil 21 Jan 2006

#12

BFW,

I see what you mean about the mark being more well defined than on my cuffs. Seems we have two mysteries, now. As I said earlier, I believe the mark on mine had to have been made at the factory given the shape of it.

As for directions, I thought you only got those on maps. Or did you mean that when all else fails, RTFM? Speaking of directions, remind me to tell you about a lost PD officer some time, in a private email.

Phil

BFW 22 Jan 2006

#13

Okay, let's see if I can get a photo posted.

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Unresolved image reference ↗

BFW 22 Jan 2006

#14

Try again.

Unresolved image reference ↗

grenchat 22 Jan 2006

#15

BFW 22 Jan 2006

#16

Thanks, Jason!! I've never posted a picture before, but I now think I've figured out what my error was. Wanna go with me when I try out my new shotgun for the first time?

Okay, both are S&W 103's marked as such (i.e. not patent pending). The top set is a "long dimple" pair (F72473) with the mark, the bottom is a later "round dimple" pair (318414)without the mark.

Dorson 23 Jan 2006

#17

I have been Looking at the marks left on the bows and I am thinking along the lines of that this is occurring during an automated process of like stamping or related step in the fabrication process. Something like metal fragment, maybe harded steel, that got stuck somewhere. Hard to say without actually seeing there process and machinery that they are using. It also makes you wonder about the Quality Control department and if they missed the mark or decided it wouldn't affect the integrity of the handcuff. Anyone live near a plant where they are made and take pictures?

-Dorson

The Amazing Michael 23 Jan 2006

#18

I hate to add to the mystery of this little debockal, but take a look at the tips of the bows. You (BFW) had mentioned the half tooth vs. full tooth thing.....well look at the tip, look at how far back the teeth start on one compared to the other. My guess is that maybe the bow is a "vendor" part for the S&W company and these two different bows came from different suppliers.

I have worked in an auto factory for the last ten years and I have seen it all when it comes to this sort of thing.....engineering changes, model year changes, recall changes, vendor contracts not re-negociated, vendor's factory burned down and had to buy from another supplier to fill customer demands (true story, happened to one of our suppliers last year)......you name it. And I hope that you guys don't believe that all of the stamping, machining, and assemby work on a product is done in one plant all under one roof.....because if you do, then you have never seen American products being built. The days of bringing in all raw materials in one door and sending finished products out the other door is long gone.....at least for multible piece assembled products any way.

I think we should talk to someone that has worked in their factory (handcuff area) for the last 30 years or so to find out for sure. Personaly, I would like to see this mark under my microscope before I give a solid opinion on it. I have looked through every pair of S&W cuffs that I have, but the mark does not appear on any of them. I hope the new pair that is coming has it, so I can get a closer look.

Cheers, Mike

BFW 23 Jan 2006

#19

Michael:

There's an old saying in the forensic world: Half the trick to finding clues is knowing that they are there.

As I think you are now seeing, that impression is not just a "ding" left by some accident or anomoly in manufacturing. It's pressed as deeply and distinctly into the metal as is the serial number, even more so. Something had to whack the dickens out of something else to cause it to be there. What makes it peculiar to me is its seeming correlation with the "full notch" on the pawl, as opposed the the "half notch" that you usually see.

The Amazing Michael 26 Jan 2006

#20

I just received word that the cuffs in question will be shipped out on Thursday the 26th. They are coming from Indiana, so the should be here by Monday afternoon (I hope). Any way, I will post more when I know more.

Cheers, Mike

Dorson 27 Jan 2006

#21

I was looking on ebay and found a pair of M-100's with the oblong dimple. I asked the seller if it had slots on one side or both and they said both. So the oblong dimple is not a definitive determination as to one side or both. If interested, the item # is 7738723977. So it is still a 50/50 as what you will get in the mail as to slot or push pin.

-Dorson

The Amazing Michael 28 Jan 2006

#22

I got word yesterday that these cuffs were sent out Thursday as planned, so we will all know the answer to this mystery very soon!

Cheers, Mike

The Amazing Michael 28 Jan 2006

#23

Here are some photos of the mystery cuffs. I will post more about this later today. I am running late for an appointment. They are Pat. Pending model 100's, if you guessed right, pat yourself on the back! Cheers, Mike

Unresolved image reference ↗

The Amazing Michael 28 Jan 2006

#24

Here are three different model 100's together. I have never stopped and looked at the model 100 very close until all of this hoopla got started about the mystery mark on the bow. All three of these cuffs are different in significant ways. Observe.....

The Pat. Pending model does not have the "mod. 100" stamp on it anywhere.....the other two do. The PP and the black ones have the S&W logo stamped into the front of both cuffs, the bottom pair doesn't. In fact, the bottom pair has nothing at all on the front of one of the cuffs....it is very plain looking. The logo is stamped much deeper into the PP cuffs than the others and I think it is a little bit different size too, but it may only look that way because of how deep it is stamped. The PP has the oblong dimple, while the other two have the round dimple. The differences go on and on!

Now to address the BFW question. I hate to say this, but I am going to ADD to this little mystery of the unknown mark. Are you ready for this??? My PP cuffs have the mystery mark.....but only on one cuff! Check out the photos, it is clearly shown on one cuff, but not the other, and to top it off, both bows seem to be cut identical to one another! There is no half tooth/full tooth situation going on here. And in my humble opinion, this mark WAS put on here intentionally!!! The msytery continues!!! LOL!

Cheers, Mike