STOTZ variations

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Let's try it with this URL:



You might have to clik on this or cut and paste it til i figure out how to do this.
Stan

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Hi Stan,

this is a question I have asked myself very often but have not found any clue about yet. Until now there has not a single Stotz-style handcuff surfaced that is marked “Mühlenfeld”. Most of the Stotz-style cuffs are not marked and a smaller number of them is marked “Stotz” on the bows. On the other hand all of the handcuffs that are obvious Mühlenfeld items (Dortmunders, and a few pairs of leg-irons that have surfaced, and as far as I know also the belt restraint that once belonged to Houdini) are marked “Mühlenfeld Barmen”, at least I never heard about a Dortmunder or other Mühlenfeld-style restraint that was not marked that way. I am quite sure that if Mühlenfeld had produced Stotz-style handcuffs they would have been marked “Mühlenfeld”, too. Even if they had not been made by Mühlenfeld, it would have been easy for them to mark them that way, like it is done today with S&W cuffs that are marketed through Walther.
Below are some scans of a small article about Stotz cuffs that I wrote for Ian’s T.E.N. some years ago, hope it will be readable.

Best wishes,

Michael

<img src=http://members.aol.com/vincula00/stotz1>

<img src=http://members.aol.com/vincula00/stotz2>

<img src=http://members.aol.com/vincula00/stotz3>

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Hi Stan,

Congratulations!
Your cuffs definitely differ from the ordinary Stotz. I had a look at my five Stotz and they all are the same according to the shape of the tube. Very interesting version indeed! Since the grooves in the bow are squared I would guess they are Stotz. Guenter has another version (see picture below) were the grooves are not totally squared but rounded on one side.



The keys for different Stotz may differ according to the length of the key. Some keys are too short to reach the threads. I have one key without a shoulder which is a kind of “master key” since it opens all Stotz cuffs. However, all threads are the same.

I also checked Michael Busch’s site and found that his specimen seems to be the same as all other.

What about Mark’s Stotz?

Lars

holstcollection.com

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Sorry Michael,

I wrote my post without updating the page first so I missed you post.

Since you have seen a large number of Stotz during the years, have you seen this version before?

Someone guessed the big ring in the middle is to attach the cuffs on a belt, just like the Berliner. It make sense to me. You can also see the shoulderless key. I have examined the key very carefully and there are no traces of a former shoulder that could me machined away.

Cheers,

Lars

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Hello fellow collectors,

as Lars told my second pair of Stotz handcuffs (the one he showed) is different to my first. But not only the bullet-shaped notches are remarkable, this Stotz is also heavier and slightly bulkier. And the inside of the hinges (where the bows are connected to each other) looks different to the common Stotz (please see right side of the picture in Lars' posting). So I believe that this Stotz was really made by a different company.

Considering the differences, which Stan mentioned, I personally think that these are normal changes witch were made by the Stotz company throughout the years or decades. Just have a look at Hiatt Type 104 - I have seen many versions of different shape, size, weight and with different threads. But all were made by Hiatt.

Best regards,
Guenter

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the input. I forgot to mention that there is a number 104 on both lock tubes of the short barrel cuff. One also has an F stamped on one lock tube. the key is also stamped with a 104. I wonder if this is a serial number or model number. I have a poor copy of a Muhlenfeld catalog that shows a Stotz type cuff, and it is No. 1?4. It is eiter 104 or 134. IF it is 104 then I have a No. 104 Muhlenfeld cuff. The catalog copy came from Michael Busch, so I hope Michael that you have a better copy and can read the model number. Are any of the other known Stotz cuffs marked on both lock tubes with a number? Does the Stotz cuff have a model number in a catalog?
Stan

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

I was not able to find the catalog in my files but have a scan on my harddisk. In fact the model number of the Stotz-style cuff is 114 in the catalog.

Lars, the picture of your Stotz cuff does not show up, can you try it again?

Best wishes to all,

Michael

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Is ther a number on other Stotz cuffs? It definitely does not look like a 114 in the catalog copy that I have.
Stan

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

I have uploaded the scan of the catalog, and you will find it below. The Stotz handcuff that I have hanging on my wall has stamped "75" into the lock-tubes. The others are in boxes and it will take some time until I have found them.

Best wishes,

Michael

<img src=http://members.aol.com/vincula00/mf-cat>

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Hello Michael,

I mailed you two pictures, did you get them?

Please let me know what versions of Stotz you have in your collection? Would it be possible for you to post pictures of them?

Regards,

Lars

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Thanks, Michael, for the scan. It is much clearer than my copy. I was hoping it was as 104 and not a 110.
Stan

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

I'd hope it was a 114 if it was 110 then your cuffs look like a padlock to me.

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

Maybe this is nothing, but perhaps it may be of benefit in attempting to track and identify these.

What I noticed in the original photos posted by Stan was the manner in which the "short" key tube was connected to the body of the locking cylinder. It's two pieces, joined together by some sort of weld or compression fitting, evidenced by the clear line around the cylinder. In the lower photo, it seems the entire locking cylinder is a single piece with the "long" key tube being lathed from the same.

Maybe some of my German friends can answer this. I just picked up an unmarked Stotz cuff that is different than the one I alrerady have. The lock tube is shorter and the lip at the end of the lock case, where the key goes in, is not as big.

[URL=<img src="http://imageshack.us][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/1640 ... bes7do.jpg">[/IMG][/URL[/url]]

The key from the shorter lock tube is not long enough to go unlock the other cuff, but the thread is the same on both of them. Do you think these were made by different companies, like one by Stotz and one by Muhlenfeld?

Thanks for your input.
Stan

Click to expand...

That is waht I thought too, until I carefull examined the one that doesn't appear to have a line there. Actually under a glass there is a line that is hidden by the excellent plating. The short tube version has a pin or screw that is ground flat that holds the top piece to the lock tube. There is no evidence of the pin on the long tube version. The other cuff of the short tube version does not show the line or pin as easily as the side I showed.
Stan