ASP Handcuffs (again)

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

I have heard a lot of people complain about cuffs that arent made left and right, and i agree it does ruin the aestetics of them, yes shear laziness and the desire to save a few pennies in manufacture is obviously to blame.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Rothen:

Since the handcuff collectors and escapologists as a whole seem to be a law abiding group, I never had a chance to arrest one, nor do I know of anyone who has. Accordingly, since picking and shimming is not a big concern, for an ARREST situation (as opposed to transport or detention), ASP are fine. From a cop's perspective, the principle reason you handcuff an arrestee (in addition to it being mandated by department policy) is to protect the officer, secondly, to protect the arrestee. As such, if the cuff is secure and can hold up to abuse (i.e. NIJ approved), it's okay. In practice, if the thing works reliably, I don't care how ugly it may be.

Because of growing concerns about damaging nerves in the wrist area, the ASP is becoming more popular due to the polymer laminate. From what I've read in police magazines and forums, many departments in the U.S. are now requiring all officers to carry them, and seem quite happy with them. You have to remember that well over half of the people who get arrested in the U.S. are under the adverse influence of alcohol or drugs at the time of their arrest, and accordingly do stupid things trying to jerk themselves out of cuffs, falling down, tripping, etc.

While I never was much concerned in the old days that someone would "pull a Houdini" on me, that is not the case anymore. It seems it's now a "cool" thing among the Goth crowd, skateboarders, punk rockers and such to carry a handcuff key, now readily available on eBay.

The main concern when handcuffing a skinny, lithe teenager is that they can easily "step over" the cuffs, thereby getting their hands in the front. With the possibility they may now have a key on them, you've got an even greater concern, but this will be true whether you use ASP, S&W, Peerless, American or whatever. While perhaps not sanctioned by departmental rules, I know of some cops who will in such a situation not use the standard hands down, palms out method of cuffing. Instead, they use the "cross arm" method: cross the arms in back, with the forearms parallel to the waist, one on top of the other, with the fingers pointing to the elbow of the opposite arm, top palm facing up, bottom palm facing down. In this position, it's impossible to get your hands any lower than your butt.

Also, nowhere is it carved in stone that you may only use one handcuff. In addition to a metallic one, back it up with a plastic zip tie if the situation warrants such a precaution.

Bottom line: it really doesn't make much difference what brand is used, as long as it is not an el cheapo set that can be flexed apart due to lack of a ditch on the pawl. Even the best handcuff in the world is never a substitute for proper monitoring of an arrestee with his hands in back and the cuffs double-locked.

Hope this may help.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

That's great BFW, thanks.

The position you describe (stacked) is of course impossible with chain cuffs, but it's fairly common in the UK because virtually all forces issue Speedcuffs. Not all forces teach officers to use it though, and rear back-to-back appears more common.

With the rigid cuffs though I can't step over it to get my hands in front, which I can with chain cuffs.

Can see why the ASPs are good for drunken/drugged prisoners. I've heard lots of tales of prisoners in the UK deliberately attempting to injure themselves on the cuffs because they're not really in any state to feel that sort of pain, and because they've got the notion that they can get the officer in trouble.

Another reason to always make sure you double-lock, of course.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Regarding the stacked method of Handcuffing a subject.. Cuffing someone with a standard chain handcuff wrist to wrist in a Stacked Postition without the use of a Rigid Restraint such as the speed, Hinged or other semi or rigid cuffs is useless. If someone can step through while handcuffed behind the back palm to palm or palms out then they certainly can do it regardles of how the Palms face up or down using stacked arms and a chain cuff.

The method of Handcuffing Of hands/arms stacked with Small framed individuals or Juveniles the intent is to USE ONE CUFF OF BOTH CUFFS IN Tandem on BOTH OF THE SUBJECTS WRISTS or Forearms together to FFECTIVELY maintain the crossed arm stance and eliminating any chance of a step through. However A belt or hoble should be utilized across the upper arms above the elbows to avoid any lateral movement in conjuction with the crossed/stacked cuffed technique.

Currently there is a Rigid Iron Restraint that duplicates this method and one was recently offered on ebay. The part that held the wrists/forearms was similar to a Chalet cuff.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Oops. Forgot to mention the fact they had to be hinged or rigid cuffs. You always forget the obvious.

Also, the old term for that position is indeed "stacked". However, in this politically correct world, with issues of gender discrimination and sexual harassment, we were told to use the term "cross arm". Kinda like being told we could no longer command a suspect to "spread your legs". Now they must be instructed to "spread your feet".

This is a little off topic, but so what.

In the U.S., the Ripp restraint (the Velcro strap thing) seems to be making quite a bit of headway as an auxilliary handcuff device. With proper training, it appears to be quite effective in initially subduing drugged out whackos by getting them under control before using handcuffs. While it will never be a substitute for handcuffs, they're quite versatile on arms and legs to keep a guy from doing his St. Vitus dance, injuring himself and everything around him.

Do you know of departments in the U.K. or Europe that are using them? If so, what's been the reaction?

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

hi all

the asp cuffs are the easiest cuffs to pick
in less of a few seconds they open with a simple needle
so why are they nij
they are not secure
even if they are double locked they are easy to pick
I'm only a collector of cuffs but the taiwan cuffs they made with standard key are more difficult to pick

regards

Patrick

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Patrick, I'd guess because the NIJ standards don't say anything about how easy the locks are to pick?

BFW, the term is still 'stacked' here in the UK. I wasn't aware it could have any negative connotations! I realised after I posted that ASP make hinged handcuffs now, so stacked/cross arm is of course a possibility with those.

As for the Ripp restraints, I've seen them online but never heard of any UK force using them. Plastic cable-tie-style cuffs yes, and indeed I've got a pair of Monadnock Key-Cuffs which a friend passed on to me after his force went and issued him with five more pairs when he hadn't used his previous allotment more than once. Apparently I've got the used pair, having been formerly resident around the wrists of a burglar (who presumably had an accomplice who was being entertained by my friend's Speedcuffs). Interesting things, not ideal but a nice lightweight way to carry a second pair of cuffs. Not hugely compact though, you need something to hang them from - something I imagine is not a problem with the Ripp velcro things, although Key-Cuffs are good enough to get a prisoner into the custody suite as securely as you could expect, so that's a plus in their direction I think.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Rothen:

I never used the Key-Cuff. For the disposable cuffs, I stuck a couple inside my hat in lieu of the spring metal hat former. Maybe that would solve the carrying problem.

I'll confess I really like the Ripp restraint due to its versatility, and it's easy to carry folded up in your hip pocket or inside a cell phone pouch on a duty belt.

Regarding NIJ testing standards: no, they indeed do not test the locking mechanism with respect to picking and shimming. Since this requires skill, it would be a highly subjective test and difficult to replicate. As long as the lock holds up to the brute force pressures described in the testing procedures, it passes. Also, the testing standards are used only for handcuffs. So far, there is no testing or certification process for leg shackles.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Yeah I've heard of putting them in your hat. Not sure how well that would work with a British hat though - flat cap maybe, but not a custodian helmet!

Also, Key-Cuffs are really very surprisingly large (at least, I think so), so they might not fit.

Did you find disposable cuffs were very awkward to use?

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

Rothen:

From what I've seen, if you try to use the disposable cuffs by themselves, yes, they're a pain if the person is anything other than 100% cooperative and sober enough to follow directions. The newer models have a larger, funnel shaped entry opening that's helped out here, but the disposables do require more dexterity and time to apply than metal cuffs. Generally, I think it best to get regular cuffs on the guy, then apply the disposables, remove the metal cuffs and go on to the next guy if you don't have enough metal ones to go around.

I recall one instance where I saw two bicycle cops trying to cuff up a group of teenagers with disposables alone. It was a mess and the cops came close to completely losing psychological control of the group because of all the fumbling around with the things.

Another practice I've seen, which I think is a mistake, is to leave the excess part of the disposable sticking out after you've got them in place. Potentially, they can still be overtightened. I believe it best to clip off the excess once they're in place, similar to double-locking, to prevent overtightening. You don't need one of those fancy cutters to do that. A plier type set of toenail clippers or wire cutters work fine.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

hi all

here in holland they use also the nylon rope cuffs
it's almost the same as dispossible restrants only in rope version
and this one is better for your wrists they are not as sharp as an dispossible

regards

Patrick

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

That makes sense BFW, I wouldn't have thought they were very easy to get on a non-cooperative prisoner.

Nylon rope-based ones must be even worse - at least the Key-Cuffs are rigid enough to keep an open loop without assistance. But they can be uncomfortable, I believe. I've not really tried them as I'm not entirely convinced I can escape from them unassisted, and I tend to be a bit timid about these things.

So I know that the escape community holds the ASP cuffs in fairly low esteem with regard to their security. I got a pair today, and I could find quite a few little criticisms myself (although the plastic and the rounded edges does make them remarkably comfortable).

What I'm wondering though is if any of our police visitors have used them operationally, and what they them of them in that context. Would you be confident snapping a pair on an uncooperative prisoner?

And is it just me or my pair, or does the key seem slightly reluctant to go all the way into the keyhole to get to the point where it turns?

And does anyone else think it's a bit of a cop out that they didn't make unique left and right cuffs? Practically I know with the keyholes on both sides it's not a problem, but aesthetically it's a mess.

Click to expand...

A widly circulating digital loop showing a person escaping from ASP cuffs with only a foling knife has dampened sales. Regarding the keyhole on both sides, some officers see that as a plus, while some believe cuffs are more secure with the single keyhole facing the elbow. After the negative (and inacurate) article a couple of years ago about problems with Peerless, and the recent gripes about Hiatt's sharp edges, S&W seems to be the favorite on the block. Even more so since they now offer push-pin double locks.