The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

You guessed it.....another ASP question

25 visible archived posts · 25 preserved total · topic ID 1150

Mark 24 Feb 2006

I'm lookin to buy a pair of ASP cuffs. All the descriptions I've been getting on web sites say that they are a larger cuffs and require a larger case. So are the distances between the cuffs longer? Do they open larger? Or are they just thicker? Or maybe even a combination of the three. If anyone could give me some insight on this, I would really appreciate it.

K. Emden 24 Feb 2006

You are correct, a combination of the three. All the companies are aware that a larger circumference cuff is needed for criminals who often bulk up in prison, thanks to the excellent workout equipment aforded by the taxpayers. Also, smaller wrists are encountered more often since crimes committed by juveniles and females are on the increase. Officers prefer "universal" cuffs which fit all, as opposed to carrying multiple sets of different sizes. The ASP is a universal fit, like the S&W Model 1.

The real issue though is the increased thickness caused by the polymar (plastic). Handcuff cases are expensive and often purchased by individual officers. Also, when the case gets to thick, often it pushes into the kidneys or back if worn to the rear. When Peerless made a thicker handcuff a few years ago, the most frequent complaint was that it would not fit in a standard case. Peerless discontinued the model.

K. Emden 24 Feb 2006

ASP made it's name from the expandable baton which caught on by storm after the PR-24 received such negative publicity after several incidents in California. They purchased the American Handcuff, Co., which previously had only a small market share. The new design was described as a tactical handcuff since many officers will buy anything described as tactical.

Hiatt marketed the Ultimate hancuff, a remarkable handcuff which folds, and locks open into a rigidcuff. It also has polymar around the body to facilitate handling and use. The large size which does not fit standard cases added to the price, has limited interest and use.

The negative publicity surrounding the ease of picking, coupled with the size, leaves some doubt as to the future. Undoubtedly, they will be re-designed. I doubt they will dissapear, but equally doubt they will put S&W, Peerless and Hiatt out of business.

The product to watch is Gotcha. They also do not fit standard cases. They have a interesting key design, and a geared locking mechanism. A keyhole is on both sides. will fit large and small wrists, are designed for ease of use by the officer and have received rave reviews by officers and department who used the prototypes. They now also have a leg iron which is great, except for the unusually long chain. Sadly, they are way to expensive.

If you are a collector, and like modern cuffs, grab anything new, just in case it goes out of business quickly. Move quickly to acquire a set of Gotcha cuffs and Leg Irons, from Taper, International (www.betterhandcuffs.com).

stan willis 24 Feb 2006

I agree with K. Emden about the Gotcha cuff and LI. Only problem is that they will only sell to law enforcement, and at the present time they only sell direct. No delaers.
Stan

U89 24 Feb 2006

So will betterhandcuffs sell to us Jo public? or only law enforcement agencies at the moment?

stan willis 24 Feb 2006

I thought I just answered that, but they only sell to law enforcement. No exceptions. I've tried.
Stan

U89 24 Feb 2006

Thankyou for the information Stan, I was querying it because K Emden said "move quickly to aquire a pair" which gave me the impression there may be an outlet.

Parabellum__org 24 Feb 2006

Maybe you should ask Yossie about the Gotcha handcuffs?
Look at this link:
http://www.blacksteel.com/hcs/index.cgi ... &collector=
Nothing is immposible to get:)
Parabellum

chris65 25 Feb 2006

the asp cuffs are thicker around the lockcase area and a bit wider than say, s+w's etc. they are also very easy to pick, a quick glance in the keyhole and you will see the pawl release, its even a nice shiny silver to help you!, if you read all the "hype", (instructions)...lol...that come with them you'll see that they have been "computer designed"....why asp just didnt lay out a pair of s+w 100's and copy their shape i'll never know!, they could have saved a bundle of cash im sure....also, why not just go on making the american handcuff designs...cheaper again, and they were made left and right handed with nice smooth edges....in short i dont like the asp cuffs...i got em coz there collectable, thats all, not as great as asp would have you beleive. imho....chris.

Tim 25 Feb 2006

#10

Mark,
Go ahead and get a set of the ASP cuffs. If you are a Police Officer, they are just as good as ASP says, regardless of what some opinions may be. They are easier and faster to get on a fighter than anything out there due to the smooth ratchet and flattened bow, and that is the bottom line for a street cop. I won't go into the repeated "search properly and never leave a suspect alone" gospel that has been disucssed repeatedly here. Not that it means the quality of a product, but the ASP cuffs are by far the best selling handcuffs in the past quarter from the 5 large police equipment distributor's I work with, and the feedback has been outstanding. Not selling just a bit better, it's double the sales of the "big three" Hiatts, S&W & Peerless, combined.
Whilst on Peerless, K.Emden, the model you are talking about is the M-400. It was a bit thicker, but the cuffs fit easily in any standard cuff case except the ever popular Safariland "clamshell", which was the rave at the time. Since then, the cases have lost popularity as they are ripping apart and losing shape after about 2 years use, being as they are not made of real leather. The fact they didn't fit in that case didn't have a thing to do with the model being discontinued, however. The official Peerless response is the M-400 was too expensive to manufacture, but other sources point to the fact there was a legal dispute over the squared double lock used by the cuff, and the results of that action is the real reason for discontinuing the model. I still think it was by and far the best handcuff Peerless ever made to this day.
As far as the picture on Yossie's site, I am thinking he probably took it while he was looking at a pair of the Gotcha cuffs. These things are more controlled than full auto Glock pistols, and there is very strict accountability for each pair that goes out. If he did manage to acquire a pair, he did so from a law enforcement officer with very questionable scruples. As Stan has stated, these are only sold to Police, and I can tell you personally, even then they are hard to get. I am still on a waiting list for a personal pair after filling out enough paperwork to buy a Abrams tank, it seemed. I have tested and evaluated the Gotchas, and while very impressive and secure, I don't see them ever being a typical product for most officers having to buy thier own gear. But they are indeed an improvement that few could argue about, which is obviously not the case for the poor ASP.
Oh, cuff calipers. I needed two Excederin and a helemt from banging my head on my desk when I saw those. I agree with whomever said to get a pair now, as they aren't going to be around long. Worthless idea, and if the cop who designed them had 'constant complaints" as stated, about his cuffs being too tight, I don't think it was a handcuff problem to begin with.
Enjoy the weather, it may change tommorow!
Tim

BFW 25 Feb 2006

#11

Tim:

Thanks for the information about the recent sales data of ASP cuffs. I find that instructive.

It reminds me of the time during the mid-sixties when a friend of mine lit my cigarette for me when my Zippo lighter ran out of fluid. It was the cheapest, flimsiest, sorriest looking lighter I'd ever seen. It was mostly made out of plastic and used liquid butane for fuel. I asked my buddy how you refilled it and he told me you didn't; when it ran out of fluid, you threw it away. I distinctly recall thinking that only an idiot would buy such a thing. A disposable lighter? Absolutely ridiculous. No way that would ever get off the ground.

I think I may go find a stock broker next week and buy some shares in ASP, relying on the cops who vote with their wallets to decide who eventually wins this debate about ASP, cuff calipers and Gotcha handcuffs.

Edgeplay_Cgo 25 Feb 2006

#12

> the Gotcha cuffs. These things are more controlled than full auto Glock
> pistols, and there is very strict accountability for each pair that goes
> out.

Then they won't be in business long. An expensive product that is hard to get is not a really impressive business plan. Steal a pair while you can.

Dorson 25 Feb 2006

#13

The guy(s) down at Gotcha need to deal in reality. They have made it too hard to get ahold of and the restrictions that he wants to impose on a reseller is plain nuts with no margin to make any money. Clearly this person doesn't have much business sense when it comes to selling a product.

-Dorson

U89 25 Feb 2006

#14

its a sales ploy to make people believe they are getting something amazing and elitist when in reality they are no better than any other well made cuffs on the market. Its the old trick of surrounding something in secrecy and mystery to make it sought after, its a ploy that will backfire big time because interest will wane very quickly and the market will then be flooded with them!

Novice 26 Feb 2006

#15

" . . .when in reality they are no better than any other well made cuffs on the market . . ."

So just how ARE they made?

Looking at their web site they show two very different gear arrangements. I must admit the 2nd arrangement with the three meshed wheels look neat, but must be expensive to produce and I'm not sure what the advantage would be in practice.
Anyway, they can't BOTH be "Gotcha's unique mechanism"! Would it be cynical of me to suspect the three wheel version (with triple hinge)is the design concept, while the single wheel (with just a double hinge)is the cost-reduced production model?
Like the say, "it's what's inside that counts"!

Ian.

Unresolved image reference ↗

BFW 26 Feb 2006

#16

Mark:

This is not so much an answer to your question, just something for consideration.

I've only fooled with a Gotcha cuff one time just before I retired, and at that time the patent was still pending and thus had not been granted. The one I messed with had only one cog (wheel) that engaged the pawl. That's a good idea since it prevents you from shimming the cuff if it's not double-locked as you can with a ratchet. But it's not a new idea, and I told the salesman so. He got a little indignant, so I asked him if the company was having any problems getting their patent granted, and then he got evasive.

Just for grins, I did a little digging around and found that U.S. Patent 1,579,333 for a cog-type locking mechanism was granted to Elmer E. Neal on April 6, 1926 and assigned to the Peerless Handcuff Company. Mr. Neal had numerous handcuff patents, all of which were assigned to Peerless.

Since I'm lousy at posting pictures, here's a link to the cover page of the patent, showing Mr. Neel's idea:
http://www.blacksteel.com/hcs/index.cgi ... serial=170
(thanks, Yossie)

While not identical, Mr. Neel's idea bears a striking resemblance to the first diagram you posted. While only Gotcha could answer this issue (and I doubt they would), I'm rather of the opinion that the triple-cog might be a way to avoid having the Patent Office refuse to grant a patent on the single-cog concept since it's so similar to an existing patent, even though expired.

Mark Lyons 27 Feb 2006

#17

Hi
I have not seen a Gotcha with the three wheels. If it were produced, it would have one excellent advantage over the one wheel version. The tip of the bow could click onto the real wheel and would be able to lock up a very large wrist. The last notch could also be interlocked with the front wheel and be used to lock up the smallest of wrists. The cuff would be more universal than a regular cuff and not need such a big bow as the S&W model 1 or other large bowed cuff.
I believe these cuffs are very well made and I hope their sales continue to climb and that the company becomes very successful.

mark
O--O

Edgeplay_Cgo 27 Feb 2006

#18

You're right, Gotcha isn't the ony cuff on the block with a gear engagement.

The Chinese copy of the H&R Super has a gear rather than a ratchet. It's an improvement over the H&R design. Unfortunately, their quality isn't nearly what the H&Rs were. They give it to ya with one hand, and take it away with t'other.

Rothen 27 Feb 2006

#19

I'm quite dubious about the Gotcha cuffs actually. Why? One feature - the double lock appears to need the key to activate it, by turning it in the keyhole the opposite way to the unlock direction. Isn't that a little dangerous? If you've got a canny or just drunk prisoner and you're struggling a bit with them trying to sort the cuffs out, what are the chances of accidentally unlocking the cuffs?

I'd have thought such incredibly-designed handcuffs would have a finger-operated double lock anyway. Not impressed.

BFW 27 Feb 2006

#20

Rothen:

As I mentioned, my experience with the Gotcha was very brief. Yes, you do have to use the key to double lock on a "lefty-loosey, righty-tighty" principle, but I suspect once you get used to it and with a little practice, this would not be a problem. It's just part of training. As for locating the keyway, my initial reaction was that it would be easier than locating a push pin.

My concern about their key is the fact that the darned things are unique, and the only way you can get duplicates or extras is from the company. Now I know that the key (no pun intended) to keeping a lock system secure is not so much the design of the lock, but maintaining key control. Trying to outfit a major metropolitan police force with those special keys and keeping track of every one of them the way they demand you do (or at least did when I looked at the things) will be a nightmare and very expensive. I wish I'd kept a copy of the paperwork that goes with their handcuffs. I'd never seen anything like it before.

At the street level, the guy who takes handcuffs off is not always the guy who put them on. While the major concern about handcuffs is getting them on fast, there are also occassions where you need to get them off pretty darned quickly. The thought of an emergency situation occurring, and having a bunch of cops scrambling around trying to find somebody with the right key scares the dickens out of me. Their sales pitch that "your entire department will have its own key pattern" won't wash with me. What about the times cops from different departments and agencies coordinate manpower? Those are the very situations where the possibility of an emergency situation happening are the greatest.

Aa I look at it, they're going to have a major problem trying to "make one size fit all." I think they would be wise to follow the example of other manufacturers and come out with two models: a regular model, using a generic key for field use, and a second, high-security model using their unique, key control system for institutional use in those situations where the same is warranted.

U89 27 Feb 2006

#21

I really dont see the necessity for these "new high security cuffs" im not an officer so maybe some of our police members can correct me if they disagree with me, but surely the hiatts speedcuff is all that is needed in any arrest situation. Its quick and easy to use hence the term "speedcuff" and if applied properly I would defy anyone to pick the lock or shim it, no ones wrists bend that far.My opinion is Why fix something when its not broken!....thought, comments......

Howy 27 Feb 2006

#22

Rothen

You are correct.

If the key is used to double lock the cuffs it is possible to accidently turn the wrong way and unlock the cuffs.

I only did this once, while on the "street", using a set of S&W 94's, and made sure I never did it again.

BTW the person did not realize that the cuffs were unlocked for that short period of time.

Remember, to double lock the 94's, one side turns one way, and the other side turns the other way.

Howy

Edgeplay_Cgo 27 Feb 2006

#23

> The thought of an emergency situation occurring, and having a bunch of cops
> scrambling around trying to find somebody with the right key scares the
> dickens out of me.

That's what bolt cutters are for. And no, it won't make them any more popular.

K. Emden 27 Feb 2006

#24

For a street arrest involving an actively resisting subject, the ASP cuff would be adequate and as was pointed out, with the flat part on the arm and smooth action, probably easier to apply than some other cuffs. An intoxiated or drugged suspect will likely not possess the fine motor skills necessary to pick, shim or even open the cuffs with a key.

Other police officers, sheriff's deputies, deputy U.S. marshals, private extradition agents or correctional officers, tasked with the transport of individuals from or to Correctional Centers, or on extraditions have more need for high security cuffs. This is the market for the black and blue boxes, the waist chains, the connectors, etc. Inmates of the various institutions have learned to make handcuff keys from pens, paperclips, etc. and have learned to defeat handcuffs and black boxes with combs and those dealing with them take security precautions to a higher level.

Actually, the opinions stated here are all correct when viewed from perspective of the user.

Abit 01 Mar 2006

#25

From everything i've gathered and owning a set myself, asp handcuffs are pretty much junk.. not completely but mostly.. I was pretty dissapionted after messing with them even for a few minutes.. but i like to hold things to a high standard so it could just be me