Original Guiteau Handcuffs

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Wow!!! At $9,500.00 (starting bid) these are a real bargain! A reasonable starting bid would be $16,900.00 or there abouts.....right???? LMAO!!!!!

Dr. Evil

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Starting bib: US $9,500.00

Ended: Apr-25-06 09:51:41 PDT

"0" bids....imagine that.

I was going to bid on them, but I bought a new car instead.

Dr. Evil

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi, it appears that there are no takers on the handcuffs, over 352 times the site was viewed but no bidders?

Does anyone know the history of this particular pair?

My researh says that there are 3 to 4 pair out there, is this the fifth?

Ian

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Ian, these are a new pair. They popped up at a sale in mid Pennsylvania a few months ago.

The seller is the finder. He's a good honest guy, but he knows what he has and is going to go carefully. He's aware of what the last two sets that were sold went for.

No matter, way too rich for this poor boy, even if they had a key.

Our satellite pooped and I'm on my wife's laptop with dial up. Can't find anything and am too old to wait this long. Talk to guys when we get fixed.

Brad

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

And I thought $80 for a pair of S/W model 94's was bad.

Hey where's Chicken Weasel? He 'ought to be chiming in about now.

JP

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

$9,500?? Wow! That's half the price of my house...yickes!! And here I was gripin' about an $80 set of S/W model 94's.

JP

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hey JP, take a breath. The last pair that sold went for something like $20,000, I wasn't there (or you'd be giving me CPR) that's my understanding. There is a regular guy on this forum that knows the exact figure, if he wants to discuss it.

You know, though, that's what I really like about this particular hobby and keeps me collecting, I could pay five digits for an item, if I ever had it to spend, or I can spend $150. Either way I'm having fun with my hobby. Different strokes for different folks.

They didn't go for $9500 so I guess that means you can get them for less now, if you have any excess lunch money.

Happy huntin',
Brad

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

I wouldnt offer a dime until i could varify there authenticities with a magnet tesst and other ways i know.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Out of curiosity, what tests would you do? The originals were probably made from a relatively pedestrian medium to high carbon steel. That's a material that is plentiful and cheap.

What would the magnet test tell you that the rust on the surface hasn't already told you?

- Dennis

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Dennis, the magnet test thing was not meant to be serious.....it has been a runnig joke on this site for a while now, even though it is not especially funny.

As far as these cuffs go, they are all ceased up according to the discribtion....the clevis, the bow, everything. I wouldn't give very much for these.

Dr. Evil

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Dennis, the Dr. Evil thing is not meant to be serious.....it has been a runnig joke on this site for a while now, even though it is not especially funny.

Mini Me

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Well, I'm notorious for missing jokes.

Yeah, I noticed that the things appeared to have been damnear rusted solid. It's a shame, for such a rare cuff. I'm normally opposed to taking major restorative actions on valuable collectables, but these might be better off being chemically rust stripped.

They don't seem saleable at the astronomical prices that a nice pair of Giteaus (Giteaux?) oughta bring.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

I am the owner of the Guiteau handcuffs in question and I want to provide some factual information relative to their condition and originality.

First, thanks very much to Joe Lauher for providing this forum. It has to be a labor of love considering some of the nonsense he has to deal with caused by childish individuals who resort to namecalling and sarcastic gossip.

I discovered the Guiteaus at a small central Pennsylvania Gun Show several months ago. Obviously, there is no key present. Yes, the two clevis shackles and the barrel swivel are seized by rust. I made a consicous decision to offer these handcuffs for sale in "as found" condition. I did this for two reasons. First, the condition they are in speaks for itself, the age and originality is obvious. Second, every collector has his own idea of how he wants to restore something or who he would like to have work on it. It can only be started once for the first time. I wanted to leave them in as found condition for the buyer to do as he pleases, and yes, even have the fun and enjoyment of working on them should he so desire.

This is a Catch-22 situation because one person will say he would rather have them original and untouched and the next will say he wants them working and restored.

At least in the condition they are in, there is no question as to authenticity and they can always be restored. I will go on record here as stating that I guarantee that these Guiteau handcuffs are old, original, genuine and authentic and any recognized expert in the field is welcome to examine them at any time.

Many of the pieces in your collections have probably looked like this at one time.

There have been several individuals who have made disparaging remarks about these hadcuffs talking silliness such as "magnet tests", etc. I would strongly suggest they take that magnet and run it around their head a few times and they may locate the steel plate that is the source of their problems.

I served 25 years on the Police Department, 7 in patrol and 18 as a Detective. I have a strong background in antique and collector firearms including restoration and am somewhat familiar with metalurgical properties of various materials. I have closely examined these hancuffs and can find no cracks, damage, or defects and by all appearances they should become functional after soaking in penetrating oil and having a proper key made for them.

As for the value of these handcuffs, we all know that is determined by what a legitimate buyer is willing to pay. Every field of collecting has its great rarity. Surely the Guiteau handcuff ranks right up there in the field of collecting restraints. I do know that values can be very subjective and such things as who they are coming from and who previously owned something can play a part in determining that value. Prior sales are surely very important, and with perhaps five known pairs in existance there can be a wide variation in an estimated value on an item such as this.

Value? Who Knows? If a toenail clipping from Elvis Presley can bring $25,000.00, what is a real piece of historical Americana worth?

I want to thank several people for their thoughtful and educational input on these rare handcuffs. Brad Darling and Ian McColl have both made intelligent observations and references to these handcuffs and that is much appreciated. John Bushey has been of treamendous help by sharing background info and statistical data regarding the Guiteaus. My sincere thanks to each of these individuals.

My name is Frank J. Panasuk. My e-mail address is: fjp101@localnet.com

I will not hide behind being "anonymous" or "Dr. Whatever". That childish nonsense does not belong here. Participate in this forum for the good of the hobby and the advancement of knowledge pertaining to it. Make friends instead of ridiculing people and their merchandise. Learn something instead of acting like a wiseguy class clown. Contribute something constructive.

Thanks for this opportunity, and anyone who has any legitimate communications regarding this item is welcome to contact me via e-mail. Also, my user name on E-bay is "6rounds". On Gunbroker.com it is "iron jockey". Please check my feedback should you have any doubts about my sincerity or trustworthiness.

Frank

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

> This is a Catch-22 situation because one person will say he would rather
> have them original and untouched and the next will say he wants them
> working and restored.

That is indeed a Catch 22, and as you said, restoration is a one way street. It's also a risky proposition. You can be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. The penalty for not doing is somewhat less steep.

The problem with high end, unusual artifacts, is that they have a very limited market. If the right person comes along, they are treasure. Until that point, they are a paper asset. Or in this case, a rusty metal asset. <rolling eyes> I'm sure you could give lessons in the frustration of owning something valuable that can't be turned to cash, as well as wishing someone hadn't stored such a unique piece under the henhouse.

I suspect it will take a lot of patience to find a buyer for your Giteaux. Good luck in moving them, or whatever you eventually do with them.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Frank:
No matter how your sale ends up, in my opinion you made the right decision in not doing anything with the Giteau as far as repairs or cleaning. I have the Guinness World Record Handcuff collection, with over 1200 restraints. I'm sure I've sold or traded more than 4 times that amount over the last 35 years. I will seldom buy any item that has been cleaned or repaired. That isn't to say I won't do a little rust removal or work that is required to get them in working order. The really rare pieces, I would rather see in original condition than a lousy repair job just to get them to work. I think most of the other serious collectors will tell you the same thing.
Good Luck with them.
Stan
www.handcuffsandbadges.com

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi Frank, thanks for you posting here. I hope you do very well selling your cuffs and thank you for the recent history of the cuffs. May I ask, did you know what the cuff were when you purchased them at the gun show?

A few years back I purchased a pair of Elias Richard (US civil war era cuffs)from a pewrson who had bought them at a gun show.

We settled on a price less than $1000.00 and when my check had arrived with him, I then asked how much he had paid at the gun show. He told me he bought them for $8.00

I was happy for him as much as I was happy witht he ER cuff.

collecting is fun and it's nice to find something by surprise.
thanks again for your posting.

Ian

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

I would like to respond to points brought up by Dennis, Stan, and Ian.

Dennis-- there seems to be some misconception about the condition of these Guiteau handcuffs. They are not a pile of rust and certainly have not been exposed to a load of chicken dung! They are in uncleaned, as found condition and with proper consevation methods, the end result will be a very eye pleasing deep brown patina of age. Photos can only tell part of a story and one really needs to see the item physically to form valid opinions. With the extreme rarity factor of this Guiteau handcuff, I should think any intact example would be worthy to have in a collection. I believe the pair formerly in the Radner collection has a heavy coat of silver paint. Underneath that paint may be as many or more sins than are on the pair that I own, albeit mine do not have a key. I think part of what happened is that the E-bay photos showed them in the dirty, grungy condition in which they were discovered. One collector spoke with another, then another,then another and all of a sudden they had a reputation as a pile of rust which is definitely not the case. Also, we have to remember that no really knowledgeable restraint collector has physically handled or viewed them. Photos are one dimensional representations that do not tell the full story. As for sales factor, yes, it is lonely at the top with a very rare item. The qualified buyers are few, the circle is small, but I have been there before with many rare and unusual antique firearms. What generally happens is that eventually, a unique and rare item is recognized for its merits and is purchased to complete a collection. Thanks very much for your thoughts.

Stan--- I appreciate your opinion and value it greatly. It was my gut feeling that an item like this should be left alone and any restoration should only be started after great consideration and examination, including other qualified opinions. I have been involved with restoration of some very rare antique firearms and in my book slow is the way to go. As we both know, once started, it cannot be undone, so it has to be right. Appreciate your taking the time to write.

Ian--Yes, I recognized them as Guiteau's immediately. At first, I thought repro, but the authenticity screamed at me. With over 35 years in the antique firearms field, I have seen my share of fakery and pretty much know what to look for. As for my prior knowledge of the Guiteau cuffs, in the old days I started a loose leaf notebook on various types of restraints as there was not a lot of info around. When I found something unusual, I photocopied it. Somewhere along the line, I came upon a very detailed line drawing of the Guiteau cuff and that made its way into my book. Never thought I would fine one, but even a blind hog finds an ear of corn now and then. I do have a questioon for you: In my opinion, the original Guiteau cuff bodies were made from cast steel and subsequently machine finished along with hand filing and fitting, is that correct? The material is definitely hard and from the design it appears to machine these from steel stock would be very time consuming and wasteful. Forging them would be possible, but that too would appear to be expensive and time consuming. I do know that in the time period when these were made, cast steel technology was fairly advanced. Would appreciate your feelings on this.

Regards to all, and at some point I would like to show these Guiteaus to some of you who have much greater knowledge about them than I do. Frank

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi Frank,

I suspect that the Guiteau like many other cuffs which came after it were cast in iron/steel. I am not a metalurgist and can only go one what small amount of knowlegde I have gained in this area. I suggest iron/steel as the technology was as good as it was today to produce good quality steel.

From other cuffs of later period which were also cast ie Mattatuck, Tower, Coob etc, these also seem to be of a steel grade metal than just cast iron ( which shatters on impact) Not the type of material anyone would want to use for a handcuff.

I don't think the cuff was drop forged (the body of the cuff )as there is nothing about the cuff which need to be precise. The bows of Towers, Mattatuck were drop forged and I even suspect the lock tube of the Marlin Daley was.

The nearest cuff to the Guiteau is the Rankin and this is definately cast. The clevis were likely to be drop forged.

Frank I would like to talk to you further about the cuff off aire. Thanks

Ian

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

I understand about the condition being better than the eBay pix and general uninformed (rasising hand) discussion indicated. You DID suggest prospective buyers eyeball the cuffs. Restoration / preservation of high end artifacts like that, is a specialized business. It's also not helped by Monday Morning Quarterbacks.

I suspect this is an item that will be hard to move until the right person comes along and snaps them up. Good luck in that.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

It has been said that there are "3" sets of these in the world, sure maybe 3 known sets, but ah! here comes #4! By my count this means that if you own one, then you now no longer own 1/3 of the Guiteau cuffs in the world, you now own 1/4 of them and as soon as another set surfaces you will own 1/5 of them. The point here is that all of these cuffs have now decreased in value because of the presence of this set and will steadily decrease as more are found. You do not really believe that there are only 4 pairs of these in the whole entire world do you? I believe there are several more that have not been discovered yet by handcuff collectors. After all, handcuff collectors are few and far in between and there is a good possibility that there are several sets of these cuffs in private collections with Grand Pa's badge, gun, billy club, or whatever. Sorry Frank, I am not going to take out a second morgage on my home to put an opening bid on a pair of rusted up, frozen shut relics with no key. I hope the next set that is found is in good working condition with a key, maybe I will bid on those. BTW, how much did Houdini's Guiteau cuffs sell for at the Radner auction???

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

FRANK & ALL : guess i will put my 2 cents worth in....i myself would have the cuffs RESTORED as there are now several people who can do a fantastic job of restoring them....yes, it is true that it would cost some good money to have them restored, but in the short & long run of things, it would be cheap money..... i, myself do not think this situation is a CATCH 22 at all... over the years, i have collected, traded, brought, & sold in many different catagory of antiques, 2nd hand stuff, collectibles, & throw a way stuff & i have ALWAYS benefitted from having an item FIXED or RESTRORED...... most of the time, having something fixed or restored bought me more $$$ when sold & easily defrayed the cost of having the item worked on.... aside from that aspect, most of the time (if it did not bring more money) having the work done made the item sell must faster then if i had not had the work done.... a working item (my opinion) is far more desireable then a non working item in 99% of cases... granted, provided the workmenship is GOOD etc... i have been collecting etc. etc. padlocks almost as long as i have restraints & i have always disagreed with the collectors who want ORIGINAL (old age, grungy, dirty, etc)looking locks.... well i too want original looking locks, but IF the lock needs to be cleaned & all the grung (not talking about rust) taken off to see the BEAUTY of what marks, lettering, or FANCY design is on the lock then that is what needs to be done..... if in doing so, you lose alot of the patina so what as now you can really appreciate the BEAUTY !!!! so have the GUITEAU fully restored as then it will be saleable.... for how much that is a good question...i say for far more then its current condition..... joe

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

I have to agree with Joe Tanner here. Nicely said Joe.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Aha! Exactly my point. Two very knowledgeable individuals, Joe and Stan, both who are rightly considered highly qualified experts in the field with primarily disenting opinions.

BOTH are 100% correct in what they say.

That was what prompted my decision to offer them in "as found" condition. A restoration can always be done, it can't be undone. I feel that the individual who wants to own these and add them to his collection (or hers, sorry ladies) should have the final decision as they will have the financial commitment.

As for 1/3 or 1/4 or whatever the percentage of Guitau's in existance, I feel that is starting to split hairs. Like the Titanic is for ships and the Edsel is for automobiles, the Guiteau was a failure. Anecdotal evidence indicates many had to be cut off from prisoners due to rust and corroision in the screw mechanism or over tightening. By being expensive to make and having a high failure rate, most all have long since been relegated to the scrap pile. The vast majority of the collectors reading this have scoured flea markets, gun shows, antique shows, junk shops, etc. from one coast to the other looking for collectible restraints. Many of you have done it for decades. How many examples of the Guiteau cuff have turned up? Sorry, I can't buy that percentage theory. The Guiteau is and will remain a rarity in every respect

How about an informal poll? To restore or not to restore? What say you?

Frank

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

I just wanted to say that there is indeed 5 known Guiteau cuffs that are private collections.
A few other very knowledgeable collectors can account for each of the 5 known cuffs. Houdini owned at least 2 of them.
Your cuff is a surprising but welcome addition to the count.
I agree that there will undoubtedly be a few more of these that will show up at some time in the future.
The one that sold at the Radner auction was mounted on a marque sign and was sold with several other cuffs that were also mounted on that sign. It would be difficult to narrow down a price for just that one item.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi Mark--- was the Guiteau in the Radner collection painted silver? It would appear so from the photograph I have seen which I believe was taken by you.
Thanks, Frank

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi. I know of no Guiteau being painted silver. The picture that appears in the article that I wrote looks like it is colored silver, but I recall it having a nice brown patina. The flash on my camera and the display lights probably contributed to the silverish appearance.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

"A nice brown patina...."

When the very fine and small amount of loose and spotty surface rust and dirt is eventually cleaned from these newly discovered Guiteau's, that is exactly how they will present themselves, with a nice brown patina.

Thanks very much for the info, Mark. You have clarified a major point of contention on these handcuffs.
Frank

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

First, Chester, I would rather be speaking to someone I know and not someone hiding behind a pseudonym. You might be someone I know and respect very much or someone I don't know, or somebody I just don't like. Whichever I won't know because you are hiding. Thus I have to set aside whatever you say. There is really no reason to hide here. But you did give rise to some interesting points.

That said, your percentage anology is pretty much worthless. The value of an item LIKE THIS isn't going to change because a new one shows up. Dozens or hundreds, sure. One more? Afraid not.

Chester, you sound like a pretty bright guy, even if I think you're wrong. Join us on a legitimate basis, even if you're unsure of yourself. We're pretty good guys here and I think even disagreement will be treated with dignity, if you're one of us and not a sniper.

I agree with Stan and Joe T. I would have no reservations about buying these, if I could afford such an item, as is. Frank is wise here as he is not going to be keeping them. But were I to have them, the first thing I would do is have Ian carefully clean them and make a key.

And then I would just love them and not give a cr-p about what some back row crabapple had to say.

If you got the stuff to get in here on this, get in there. For the rest of us, relax and watch the show....and don't waste your time crabbing.

Brad

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Gentlemen, I am no sniper, but merly a restraint enthusiest umong my own kind. If you wish to give no consideration to my remarks, theroies, or opinions, then that is your choice. There, I have said my peace on that issue.

Now, if these Guiteau cuffs that Frank owns were fully restored to working condition, I would very much consider placing an offer on them. I think some of you have taken me wrong about this. The Guiteau cuffs are my #1 favorite cuffs of all time and I would love to own one of the few pairs. However, I have an issue with the asking price or opening bid price. With the cost to have them restored added onto the cost of what Frank is asking makes these cuffs far out of my, and most people's, reach. If he is firm on his price, someone, someday, maybe many, many, years from now will pay it and that is his right weather I/we like it or not. I once had my eye on a piece at an antique shop that was grossly over priced. I tried like mad to barter with the owner, to no avail. Three years later, I came back to that same shop and the item was still in it's resting place with the same price tag on it. I one again tried to barter, again, to no avail. I also tried telling this gentleman that the piece was worth only a fraction of what he was asking and he replied, "They don't make these anymore, I can ask any amount I want and someone, someday, maybe many, many from now will give me what I am asking. Until then, it will sit in that cabnit collecting dust!" Lesson learned.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Chester (or whoever you are):

Three of the most important things a man can possess, and no one can take them from him, are his name, his word, and his honor.

Have fun at the Cobblepot family reunion this summer.

Frank J. Panasuk

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Frank, thank you, I will have fun at our next family reunion. When you go to your's, please give my regards to your mother for me.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi Frank, nice response to Cobblepot and may their reunion be a good one in the land of fiction.

I find it amazing that when there is so much talk about how children are lacking self esteem issues and that they need assistance in this area of their lives, that we have some adults that suffer from the same problems. I cannot see any reason for someone to hide behind a fake name, I would like to be enlighten as to why?

I also find it very odd that the author wishes to share or just have their opinion heard as if they are serious and hold their view as a sacred part of their thinking and that it means a lot to them. Being honest, up front and open is more honorable in my opinion and I wish people who keep posting under fake name would cease as I cannot take them as serious or mature and really don't even warrant a reply.

JMT (just my thoughts)

Ian McColl

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

HI all,
I emailed the owner with my thoughts, which concurred with
Joe Tanners. I thing they would be far more saleable and worth more $$$ restored. I'm not talking about restored to
"like new" condition, but just working order, doing as little as possible to the patina. Remove surface rust, loosen the
clevis's, and most importantly soak the locking mechanism a week or so (see Ian, I did learn from you---I just am so impatient I take them out of the oil and keep trying them every 15 minutes!) and then try a key. If they work, you have a working Guiteau cuff and key, and then I believe they
immediately have more value, and would more saleable. Just
one opinion, and I totally respect the owners stated idea that this "restoration" should be up to the new owner. But at what cost to the seller? IF they can't be opened someone may not be willing to pay that much for them. It's a tough issue, and I've enjoyed the posts on this thread. Good luck, it's great to know good finds are still out there!
Best to all, John

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi John, good to see that you have passed the "soak them" treatment on. Your method or mine. You never did mention time frame............(LOL)

Ian

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Hi all,

Just my opinion, but as one who has been involved with a number of professional and leading museum exhibits during the past decade, and also ones where the objects being displayed are often of a far more delicate nature than iron or metal handcuffs, I would like to offer the professional museum approach to taking care of rare objects.

1) Unless an object is in danger of deterioration, do as little as possible to alter it's original state, finish, condition, etc.

2) If an object is in danger of damage through ordinary display or simply exposure to the elements, ONLY do as much conservation as is needed to prevent damage or destruction.

In VERY few instances is it ever advised to put any museum quality object in "proper working order" so as to properly display it as a historically important item.

In fact, in many cases just the opposite is done. The rarity or authentically important artifacts and the integrity and provenance of same is usually enhanced by leaving them as close to the originally discovered state as possible.

RE: Try as often as possible to leave the item in it's "as found" state.

I do not know if any of you here will feel these rules apply to the handcuffs in question but they are in fact actual museum rules of conservation.

Take it for what you feel it is worth.

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Very valid points raised by both Steve and John. Steve is spot on with museum conservation standards and practices. John has equally valid observations from a collector's viewpoint.

Should antique handcuffs/leg irons/restraints be treated any differently from other items of great historic significance and value? Has the hobby and the monetary/historic values of these items grown to the point where we, as collectors and conservators of them (for future generations) should establish accepted standards and practices? It has been done in other areas of collecting such as coins, cars, guns, etc.

Maybe it is time to establish a grading system for these pieces. It is probably only a matter of time before one of you very advanced collectors reading this writes a "Redbook of Values for Handcuffs and Restraints".

I doubt if it would make the bestseller list, but wouldn't it be great to have a standard reference guide?

Thanks to both John and Steve for some very thought provoking views. There are some very knowledgeable people discussing this matter and I think we are all learning something.

Best to all, Frank

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

>> Maybe it is time to establish a grading system for these pieces. <<

Check these nice cuffs out Cheap too !
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Guiteau-Ha ... dZViewItem

Oops. Sorry for the partial message. It escaped.

>> Maybe it is time to establish a grading system for these pieces. <<

The National Rifle Association (NRA) has a set of standard condition descriptions for modern and antique firearms. I'll reproduce them below. They are not a perfect match for what we look for, but it may be a place to start.

- Dennis


===================


NRA CONDITION STANDARDS FOR ANTIQUE FIREARMS:

FACTORY NEW:
All original parts; 100% original finish; in perfect condition in every respect, inside and out.

EXCELLENT:
All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore.

FINE:
All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.

VERY GOOD:
All original parts; none to 30% original finish; original metal surfaces smooth with all edges sharp; clear lettering, numerals and design on metal; wood slightly scratched or bruised; bore disregarded for collectors firearms.

GOOD:
Some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or re-blued; principal letters, numerals and design on metal legible; wood refinished, scratched bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.

FAIR:
Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.

POOR:
Major and minor parts replaced; major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed; metal deeply pitted; principal lettering, numerals and design obliterated, wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked or broken; mechanically inoperative; generally undesirable as a collector's firearm.


NRA CONDITION STANDARDS FOR MODERN FIREARMS:

NEW:
Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.

PERFECT:
In New condition in every respect.

EXCELLENT:
New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).

VERY GOOD:
In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.

GOOD:
In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

FAIR:
In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.


http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/NRACondition.html