"Fat" Maltbys

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

BRAD: your guess is as good as mine... I have probably had at least over 50 MALTBY cuffs over the years & i would say probably 7 or 8 of them have been the THICKER - FATTER version..... but as with any cuff, someone else may have only had 6 & 4 of them may have been the FAT version.... again as with most cuffs, i have had & seen so many varitions of the same cuff ( any model cuff ) as far as the SIZE of chain linkage, swivels, & MINUTE thickness's i quit disquinishing any differences with the exceptions of detective ( lightweight ) , patrolman( medium weight ), & prison ( heavy weight ) models.... also, i should have asked you above IF you are talking about just the normal FAT model or are you talking about the DOUBLE ROW ( side by side ) bowed MALTBY... if so, YES my guess would be 10% or less even maybe.... sorry, i do not have one available..... joe

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Joe, thanks for the info, but now I think I'm getting a headache.

I guess I have the standard Fat model. It's 1/2" thick vs the regular 3/8" thick.

Could you elaborate on the "lightweight" model and the "double row" models. Sounds very interesting and I'll bet everyone would like to know more. Are you aware of any pics available?

Thanks again,
Brad

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Brad

The original Maltby patent has a double toothed locking system with two sets of grooves in the bow. This required a wide lock case. These cuffs exist, but are quite rare. I have one set that is not in very good shape, but it is the only one I ever had a chance to buy. (Thanks go to Michael Griffin)

They then switched to a simpler locking system with just one set of grooves, but the cuff was still the same original width. Later the cuff was redesigned and a thinner and lighter model was released.

The locking mechanism went through several variations. The orginal locks are brass and recessed, the later ones are plated steel and flush with the cuff surface with more than one variation. Some have extra wards that prevent a simple key from opening them. But all flat key models are very easy to pick open with a paper clip.

Eventually they switched to the round key like that was also used on the Judd. I have never seen a round key Maltby cuff with a wide case, but I have been told that they exist. Does anyone have one?

Overall the Maltby cuffs went through more variations in a short time than any cuff I know.

Joe

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Wow, Joe, great info. Thank you very much.

So I guess we can infer from that, that the fat Maltbys are, in fact, an early variant in the evolutionary process and NOT some "prison" model.

That being the case, if the round key was also an evolutionary variant of latter day, then it seems unlikely that there would be a round key fat Maltby, unless the evolution went like human evolution, in fits and starts.

However, I have a distant recollection of Joe T telling me that he has had, or seen, fat Maltbys with the round key variation. If anyone has it would be Joe.

I'm hoping Joe will jump in at this point and clarify for us.

thanks,
Brad

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Another thing of interest about the flat Maltbys is that some
of them will double lock,others do not. I have one strange one
that has an indented brass lock and the other side has the flat
steel lock. The linkage does not look like it has been replaced.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Gordon, that's interesting. That is certainly a true "transition" model, half old and half older.

On the double locks, would those have been in the round key version?

Brad

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

All round key Maltbys double lock. I made a sleight omission
in the above post. It should have read "about the flat KEY Maltbys"
The round key is often called a triangle key also. This is because
the key fits into a triangle cam inside of the cuff. The inside of
the key is a triangle shape. The round key Maltby ( triangle key )
is the same key for The Judd handcuff. Perhaps an early cost saving
measure for Mattatuck.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

There are 2 different keys for the Round key Judd. The cuffs marked "Dept. of Justice" have a smaller diameter key. The regular key is too large to fit the keyhole. Also the regular cuff has 3 round connecting links, and the DOJ has a single link.
Stan

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

I really hate to disagree with my friend and handcuff guru Stan Willis
but...The outside diameter of The Judd and the government Judd are the
same. It is the inside of the key that is different, the ID doj key is
smaller. A regular Judd key will fit into a doj keyhole,but it will not
unlock the cuff. It will just turn and possibly round off the key or the
cam in the cuff. It is a myth that the government Judd has a smaller than
normal key hole.
My government Judd has the 3 round connecting links.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Hi Gordon:
I am sure your keys and cuffs are as described, BUT an original key for my Judd with 3 links is too large (by 10/1000) of an inch) to go into the hole on the DOJ cuff with 1 link. It is fairly loose in the regular cuff. It is possible that my Judd key is really for the Maltby, but the OD of the a Judd key would have to be 10/1000 smaller in order to fit the DOJ Judd. I do not have an original key for the DOJ Judd cuff.
Stan

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

HI ! ALL ::: BRAD :: sorry to take so long to answer, but i was gone & then had to look thru stuff..... i KNOW that i have had MALTBY cuffs that were 5/16" thick & that would be what I would call the DETECTIVE model & the of course the TWO sizes that you mention give or take an 1/16" ...... in all reality, maybe there are really only TWO sizes & the minute differences were just factory machining quirks ..... who knows...........

i have to agree & disagree with my other friends - GORDON & STAN... . i have had (only a few) both ROUND TRI key JUDDS & MALTBY cuffs where NONE of the approx. 14 ORIGNAL keys that i had would fit into the keyway..... i remember distinctly 1 time where i had a client who wanted a super nice (factory polished & well cared for - maybe never used) JUDD that i had, but he wanted an ORIGINAL key to go with it instead of a nice remake key that i normally supplied..... no, not 1 of IAN's nice keys..... this was long before that as i had to have some cast & made up in the mid 80's....... to shorten the story, he purchased the cuff & key & soon after told me that he had the key professional tuned to fit.... not to say GORDON is wrong, but to my recollection, i have never run into any problem of NOT having a JUDD or MALTBY TRI key not working & unlocking any cuff IF the key went into the keyway.... again, who knows sometimes things done at the factory were just not precise & that is how we have gotten these oddities........... also, maybe we could get JOE L. , GORDON, STAN or someone who has 1 to post a photo of the double row bow..... joe

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

I'm still looking to buy one with the 2 rows of ratchet teeth. Havn't found one yet.
Stan

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Joe, thanks for the info. I think that's as good as we can do.

Re the two row. I'm out there with Stan, checked both of mine.

Joe L, got one? Maybe Gordon's half and half would have a double row on the "older" side?

B

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Gordon has sent us a nice picture showing the bows of the two versions of the Maltby. The wider double row version matches the patent.

Thanks Gordon!

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

GORDON: thank YOU !!!! for suppling the nice photo..... JOE:: thank YOU for posting the photo.... joe t

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Boy, I sure hope I find one on ebay before Stan does!

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Mark
Fat chance of that, you know that he is looking right now.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

I'm not really looking, and I realize that there at least a few more collectors than Mark and myself buying cuffs on ebay.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Not me. I never touch the stuff.

Now, if Mark can beat Stan and I can just beat Mark, hmmm.....

Special thanks to Gordon for the picture and thanks for all of your contributions. Finally there is some light on these mysteries. I think there's an article for HC Annual '07 in all this.

thanks again guys,
Brad

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

I guess all of our chit chat here brought these things to life. My opinion is they are very much worth the interest.

See 7763417425. They are the nicest set I've ever seen.

Congrats, Lars.

Brad

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Not to mention TWO ORIGINAL KEYS!!! (they are, Lars, I can confirm it)

B.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Thanks Brad,

They didn't went cheap but they are actually the very first pair of Fat Maltby I've seen on eBay during my years. They also seem to be in pretty good shape. I agree with you; the Malby handcuffs are well worth a chapter in the next Annual. Gordon, I think you are the man to write it!

Cheers,

Lars

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Lars, I agree. Gordon's the guy (whew, I was afraid you were going to nominate me).

We can all send him pics of what we have.

Yours was actually the third one this year. This one just got obvious because of my question. Yours is still the best one yet and the two original keys...yiyiyi.

I don't recall seeing even one last year.

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Hello everyone

I will soon be making a formal announcement about the 2007 Annual. I welcome and suggestions you might have in advance.

I really like the idea of featuring Maltby cuffs, but I think it should be expanded to coverage of all of the Mattatuck cuffs. This would include the Judd and Mattatuck handcuffs, the Mattatuck leg iron and the Maltby come along.

There are many, many variations of the Maltby and a lesser, but significant number of variations of some of the other cuffs so this will be a major undertaking. Thus it has to be a group project. We will indeed need contributions from lots of different people.

I think the real expert on Maltbys is Michael Griffin. (Hi Michael) I would like to invite him to participate. I think he knows more about these cuffs than anyone else.

cheers
Joe

I recently upgraded my fat (heavy) Maltbys, flat key version.

As I was changing them in my display, I noticed that the old set had the standard link, but the new ones have a much heavier link. Clevis and link loop are the same on all of my Maltbys.

Anybody ever notice a difference like that?

If anybody has a spare round key Fat Maltby and needs a flat key version, let me know. I'm looking for a trade. Unless, of course, the lighter link version is real rare or something.

Joe T. you've had quite a few. Any ideas?

Also what do you think the ratio of Fats to standard is? Fats maybe 10% of production?

Brad

Click to expand...

Hi,

The fat Maltby is much heavier than I thought. The standard flat key Maltby is 360 g and the fat Maltby is 540 g, quite a big difference. Have a look at the comparison on the picture below. Now I really would like to find the double row version. Gordon, do you have a duplicate?

Lars

www.holstcollection.com

Bring back to discussion about the 2 row Judd/Maltby and dialogue about smaller diameter Department of Justice cuff/leg iron