The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Bavarian Justice Leg Irons ?

16 visible archived posts · 16 preserved total · topic ID 1343

joebell45 16 May 2006

There is a replica set of leg irons for sale on Ebay but they are in Germany. Do you know if there is a US importer for these? Thanks for any info.

Edgeplay_Cgo 16 May 2006

Yeah, the quoted shipping is pretty steep. I've imported stuff from Germany and it has never been that bad, IIRC. I can import stuff from the UK by Royal Mail and it's not much worse than UPS across the state.

- Dennis

Harry_Tasker 14 Jun 2006

Hi there,
not sure if that's my auction you are talking about...but it might be : http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 7765150433

As for the postage...yes...I think I'd have to agree, it is steep. But I'd like to point out that it's not steep because of me. It's steep because of the Deutsche Post.
They ask for 14 Euro for a letter. That is a letter going further away than Europe...and with the possible target USA that would have been the right postage. A letter is not insured though...so if it's lost...it's just gone.
Other shipping methods are for instance sending it as a economy parcel. That's 32 Euro and it's insured.
If you want a insured parcel that's faster...well...that's airmail then and it will cost 48 Euro. Which are the $61 I asked for in the auction.

UPS...Dennis named them...is not really a option since according to their online freight calculator they ask for about 105 Euro / $132.

Have to say though...if the customer can tell me a cheaper way of sending any item I am selling...I am willing to take that option. Not a problem with that.

ColdSteelCuffs 14 Jun 2006

Must be everyone was asleep the Second time these came up on Ebay for a third of the cost!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7767917635

1200cuffs 14 Jun 2006

Not Everone was asleep!
Stan

Atame.Muc 14 Jun 2006

Hi ColdSteelCuffs,

it was the THIRD time - please have a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7750297304

Best regards,
Atame

PS: congratualtions, Stan, that was kind of a bargain!

kuffs 14 Jun 2006

I have never seen the real Abus leg irons that these are styled after, so I do not know how close they are in design. I know the Abus lock is a high security cylinder where the copy is not and appears to be a file cabinet lock.
The copy of this leg iron has some characteristics that are similar to the Great #61 cuff from the Radner auction. If the copy cuff is true to form to the authentic Abus, I wonder if #61 was made by Abus as well.
Anybody share this reasoning with me?

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

1200cuffs 14 Jun 2006

I don't.
Stan

ColdSteelCuffs 15 Jun 2006

Okay Guenther, You got me.. The Third Time !! The question is when will the item be Easily available and very affordable from Victor Works via the retailers???

Steve Santini 15 Jun 2006

#10

Actually, I do not agree that the lock used in these replicas is a type of filing cabinet lock.

To me it seems to be a profile cylinder of the type often used on glass doors and very popular in Europe.

Especially Germany.

Steve Santini www.thedarkmaster.com

Unimuc 15 Jun 2006

#11

Hi,

I had the chance to inspect the ABUS original this replica was made from about a year ago. I Posted a few pictures here in the german handcuff forum:
http://www.handschellenforum.de/forum/v ... .php?t=877
(the thread is about the replica, for those who can't read german just follow the links for pictures of the original, the replica, and different pin tumbler cylinders)

The main discussion in the thread is about the cylinder. Steve is right, the replica has a "normal" pin tumbler cylinder which I expect to be used in doors. But it's not exactly the type often used in Europe/especially Germany, those have a "larger" round part on the top, the shape is called "Euro-Pofilzylinder" and has normed measures to be exchangable, but those won't fit into the replica.

I had not the chance to practice my lockpicking skills either on the original or the replica, but I am quite sure the replica has an asian lock with larger tolerances and no special anti-picking measures, about the quality you find in those black chinese leg irons. Those are no real problem for any lockpicker... The original version has an ABUS XP1 Cylinder for what I can tell: http://www.abus.de/de/main.asp?ScreenLa ... 3318166082
which is very hard to pick with traditional tools. So my dream would be to have this replica formed to hold an "Euro Profilzylinder", but besides that also the current version is a quite nice reproduction of a very (very...) rare "modern" restraint...

Martin

kuffs 16 Jun 2006

#12

Hi. This is the cabinet lock that I was thinking of that looks similar to the one used in the repro leg iron. It has the spring loaded plunger so it could be used to lock into one of the notches on the bow. The profile cylinders have only a rotating nub that could be used as well. The dimensions of the profile cylinders are about twice the size of the cabinet lock

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

joebell45 16 Jun 2006

#13

If Victor Works makes these,is there a retailer here in the US that sells them?

Steve Santini 16 Jun 2006

#14

Yes Mark, but...

If you look at the location of the plunger on the cabinet lock, and take into consideration the location of similiar plungers on other cabinet locks, it cannot mesh with the bow teeth.

The plunger on the lock you show comes up out of the upper section of the lock and not the side which is where the bow teeth are located.

Steve Santini

P.S. I have seen differing types of profile cylinders in various sizes that would be perfect for locking this cuff. In particular, some made by the German firm DOM come to mind. Of course, it is impossible to really say for certain if this is what is used in the repro until we know if the cuff is deadlocking or ratchets through.

kuffs 16 Jun 2006

#15

Hi Steve,
My thinking was that the spring locking tab had an attachment or connecting bar that drives the pawl that actually comes into contact with the bow and into the notches.
A profile cylinder could work in a similar way too.
I think that once we get some measurements on the lock, it will be easy to determine which type of lock this is. As I mentioned above, the file cabinet lock probably has half the surface area that a profile lock has.
It is possible to tell from the key as well. If the key as approximately the size of a house key, it would most likely be a profile and of course, if it is small like a padlock key, it ought to be a cabinet style lock.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

Unimuc 16 Jun 2006

#16

Hi,

@steve: the cuff is dead locking, you need to insert the key and turn the lock so you can move the bow through, then bring the lock back to the upright position (in which you can remove the key) to lock it again. The same mechanism as in the bavarian original. No spring-loaded cabinet lock which is usually pressed into the case to activate the locking. It's also slightly larger than the usual cabinet locks (see one of the pictures in my mentioned threads for a ruler in the picture).

Regarding the cylinder, as I said I think it's a cylinder usually used for locking doors, but not for the usual doors here in germany. So a normal DOM or the ABUS from the original won't fit. It is of course possible that DOM also manufactures cylinders in the shape used there, but from all what I can tell from what I've seen so far the one actually used is a pretty simple "no-name" cylinder, probably one more common in asia than in europe. I have no idea how easy it would be to replace the cylinder there in case you find a matching better one, though. Might be possible with some drilling or so?

Martin