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The Escort...How many keys?

10 visible archived posts · 10 preserved total · topic ID 1378
Original topic ↗Recovered images
kuffs 10 Jun 2006
#1

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Ian McColl 10 Jun 2006
#2
Hi Mark, I don't know the offical position on the keying of the escorts but I haven't of any two being keyed alike.As far as I know they are all keyed to differ and never master keyed.

The permutations can be calcutated multipling the increments (which is 5) by power of the number of cuts on one side of the key.

I cannot remember if the mechanism has 9, 10 or 11 discs.
if 9, then it would be 5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5= 1953125

Ian
Unimuc 10 Jun 2006
#3

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Hi,

regarding the cities, I expect this to be like usually with such cuffs: when ordered individually, every one has it's own key. When an instituion orders a few they can specify them to be keyed alike, and most probably also can order additional ones with "their" keying. So it could well be that all cuffs ordered by the police of a city to be keyed alike - when they decided to order them that way.

@Ian: I would not mix that up with "master" keys. Technically I think it would be possible to create a chubb lock supporting a master key (means: locks with individual keys, which all can also be opend using a common master key), but I don't think anything like that was ever be done for the Chubb Escort or any other high security handcuff (while of course it would be possible).

Martin
Ian McColl 11 Jun 2006
#4

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Hi Martin, the Chubb AVA mechanism does not support being Master keyed both mechanically or for security. I only used the term as most people think that all locks can be mastered keyed and as a high security lock, might have thought it would or could be.

thanks

Ian
Unimuc 11 Jun 2006
#5

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Hi Ian,

of course you're right, mixed it up with the abloy system where a second cut in a disc could be used to enable master keys. For someone interested in the details I can reccomend this document from TOOOL, which has a few images of the inner workings of as well abloy as chubb ava locks:
http://www.toool.nl/abloypart4.pdf

And for the number of discs, on the "Chubb Locks Custodial" webpage they say it's a 10 disc Ava lock: http://www.clcsltd.co.uk/handcuffs.htm - but they advertise "only" over 1 million possible keys. So either one disc isn't really used or they don't use all 5 possible heights? No information on ordering same-keyed cuffs there, but I still assume it's possible on request but usually not the case.

Martin
Ian McColl 11 Jun 2006
#6

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Hi Martin, thank for the info on the website, i will check it out.

The permutations of the lock are alway higher than the actual combinations.
All theorical combinations (permutations)and useable combinations. So if you subtract all the combinations that wouldn't make for a secure lock, ie, cuts 1,1,1,1,1 etc , 2,2,2,2 etc, or 3,4,3,4,3 etc

or combination which make for a weakened key ie, 1,5,1,5,1,5,1 etc, then you woul dhave ablout 1,000,000 good codes to work with, which is still a lot.

Ian
Mick Hanzlik 11 Jun 2006
#7

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Ian...You beat me to that answer! Theoretical permutations and actual permutations are aleways different.

I once did a project with a lock company who wanted at least 1000 different key combinations on their Mortice Door Lock, so that it would be in line with certain Insurance requirements.

I had to look at each combination graphically to see if there was a very long step on the key next to a very short one. This would have been unacceptable, as the long step could possibly snsp off if the key was dropped. Also, for the reasons you stated, all the lever steps of the same height would also have to be rejected.

So on the coputer, I "drew" each combination, using a spreadsheet, so that I could see the finished key shape.

It took about 5 hours to go through all the key combinations that were theoretical. After all that time, the total came to 996!

So they had to go back to the drawing board and redesign the whole thing!

Mick
Unimuc 11 Jun 2006
#8

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Hi,

I'm aware not all possible permutations are useable, but I expected that to be a lesser problem in those AVA locks as for example a steep step should - other than in pin tumbler locks - not be a show stopper, so 1 million out of almost 10 million possible would be surprisingly low. However, I think we now can surely assume that there are really over a million possible keys, and therefore be pretty sure no randomly bought Chubb Escorts are keyed alike

I don't know about the number of variations in other high security handcuffs, but the HSS9 for example (which of course are much less secure than the escort anyway) have a 3-digit number stamped onto the lock which I expect to identify the keying, and I don't expect any other cuff to have anything in the area of 1 million different keys. So again the clear winner is the Escort, possibly followed by the new peerless 710 locks discussed here a few days ago...

Martin
Chris Gower 13 Jun 2006
#9

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
OK I agree with most of what has been said. The Chubb Escort handcuffs have 4 different models:

MK 1 Aluminium Lock Case 10 discs very restricted key blank (very thin key-way)
MK 2 Black lock Case 10 discs very restricted key as above.
MK 3 Black Lock Case 9 Discs CHUBB engraved on bottom of lock case where the key enters, restricted key but thicker than MK 1 & 2)
MK 4 Black Lock Case 9 Discs CHUBB name cast into lockcase where the shackle fits. Same key way as MK 3

The Chubb AVA mechanism consists of springless discs that are free to move within the cylinder. There is simply 1 compression spring that effectively pushes the discs down, There are 3 different discs which can be put in the barrel. Discs 1 and 2 can be turned around 180 degrees to form disc 4 and 5. So we have 5 different cuts possible on the key.

So with 9 discs the theoretical number of keys is;
5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5 = 1953125

10 discs theoretical keys = 9765625

However there will always be 3 different discs within the lock. Chubb are happy to have keys with a 1 cut (virtually no cut) to a 5 cut (very deep cut)next to each other and this does cause a weak key but the problem of broken keys seems to occur more with the AVA locks that Ford fitted to their Cars in the late 1980's.

So we really end up with:
9 discs 5x5x5x5x5x5x5x4x3 = 937,500
10 discs =4,687,500

I mentionned about the Ford Car keys that used this AVA lock, did they use it in the USA? Basically the key looked identical to the 10 disc padlock / door key but it only has 5 working discs in it. The reason being is that the key could be inserted in 2 ways.
The codes issued with the car would be e.g. C21345

This would actually represent a key cut as:
4,2,5,1,3,3,2,4,1,5 side A
2,4,1,5,3,3,4,2,5,1 side B

You will notice that each pair has to add up to 6.
With this combination there were only 3125 different keys and probably 1500 actual combinations used. Just goes to show how exponentially the key differs go up with each disc added.

So without doubt the Chubb Escort has the greatest number of key differs. When I was a partner with Fetters and we supplied the Escorts they were all supplied to us with the same key marked CC6. Generally speaking Chubb supply batches of 10 keyed alike handcuffs to the Prison authorities. To put the key differs in perspective I think the Hiatt HSS range are next as a manufacturered handcuff (rather than an add on such as the Medico/Assa Peerless cuffs). The Lowe & Fletcher locks used on the Hiatt cuffs have just 2000 differs.
Hope this all makes sense.
Chris
kuffs 14 Jun 2006
#10

Hi
I have never had a clear understanding of how these Escort cuffs were keyed.
From what I do know, all the cuffs sold and used in a particular city were keyed alike.
I would like to know if there are at least 2 cities that share the same key paterns and how many different key changes were made for these cuffs.
I realize that there were 2 different keyways as they upgraded the lock on the later models.
Any help on this topic is appreciated.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O
Click to expand...
Thanks guys for the research.
I find it interesting that the Prison system gets their cuffs keyed-alike in groups of 10. I guess that it is more secure that way in case a prisoner gets hold of a key somehow, but must be much more work for the guards or correctional officer to figure out which key fits each prisoner and to make sure they even have the right key once they arrive at court or if transported to another jail or prison. There must be some good stories of prisoners being stuck in their cuffs while the authorities scramble around to find the right key that could be miles away.
Have you heard of any small towns that have all keyed-alike cuffs in use in their Pd's?
I have not seen any code numbers on any of the Escort cuffs that I have even seen. One would think that would be a big help even if Chubb had a requirement that they would make keys only if they had the cuffs in their possession or if the request was on official agency letterhead. This would make it more difficult for a bad guy to obtain keys but would allow the cuffs to have a key if the originals were lost.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O