The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Antique Chinese Handcuffs on eBay

18 visible archived posts · 18 preserved total · topic ID 1410

Graham 30 Jun 2006

For starters, here's the link so you can see what I'm referring to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0003386020

I find it funny that the seller started with the first set of these cuffs as a true auction and they sold for $102. At this point he gave up with an auction and re-listed the next pair with a $97 "buy it now". They sold. His next pair, $125 "buy it now". They sold. Current pair, $132 "buy it now". Anyone seeing a pattern here?

So I asked the seller why the price keeps going up. Here was his response:

"I spoke to a collector who foolishly explained to me that many handcuff collectors know each other and collaborate to bring the price of an item down by not bidding on it, if they know someone else will bid higher than them. This is the first raise in the price. One sold on auction for $102.50. Then I sold one buy-it-now for $97.50 (lower). Now I've raised it to $125. If someone is willing to spend $100, they're probably willing to spend $125. My trip to China wasn't cheap!"

Well, it is eBay after all, whatever the market will bear I suppose. I don't know how many he has, but if you want a pair get them now before the price winds up at $500.

1200cuffs 30 Jun 2006

OR if you are smart you will avoid this seller.
A

Graham 30 Jun 2006

Between the lines, that's sort of what I was hinting at...

Paul Reardon 01 Jul 2006

Dear Graham and "A",

Don't you think this seller should be able to get what collectors are willing to pay?

Paul

Graham 01 Jul 2006

I don't begrudge anyone making a buck. I've never been a fan of "buy it now" only type entries on eBay. A buy-it-now combined with a regular auction would be better I think. Start low with a reserve of $95 and a buy-it-now of $150. There are those that would just skip the bidding and go for it.

But my opinion is only one opinion of many. Peace.

Edgeplay_Cgo 01 Jul 2006

>>I asked the seller why the price keeps going up.

A: Because it appears that people are willing to pay more. Something is worth what people are willing to pay for it.

Actually, conspiring, online or offline, to drive his prices down is probably a violation of US Federal Law. I think the Sherman Antitrust Act applies to a conspiracy in restraint of trade. Gee, you didn't think you could get into the same league as the Carnegies and Rockefellers.

Graham 01 Jul 2006

I'm in Canada. Who the heck are the Carnegies and Rockefellers? Never heard of them. Oh well...

Brian Sloan 01 Jul 2006

I figured I could find this thread here...

Do you think its fair for buyers to illegally collaborate to bring the price of my items down? I had to travel to China and using an interpreter, meet a lot of people to acquire these handcuffs.

Collaborating to bring the price of an auction down is actually a federal crime.

So am I the bad guy putting a buy-it-now on these to protect my investment, or is it the people violating federal law who care nothing about my investment to acquire the cuffs who are in the wrong?

90% of my stuff sells on regular auction starting at a penny. The first pair of these sold on auction for $102.50. But if that price was the result of collaboration between bidders, what would the real price be? Would further collaboration cause the price to be even lower? Would the next pair sell for $75? $50? $200?

If you found out that the handcuff collectors were collaborating to bring the price of your items down in which you have a substantial monetary investment, wouldn't you do something to protect yourself?

I want to have a good relationship with handcuff collectors, as I have 2 guys in China collecting cuffs for me and will have many more offerings over the next few months (more coming in august after I return to Beijing).

I've reduced the price of the cuffs on eBay right now (have two left) to a buy-it-now for $120.

You can see that I'm offering a few other Chinese cuffs right now on regular auction. I can't force anyone to not violate federal law regarding collaboration to bring auction prices down, but please put yourself in my shoes before you collaborate with other cuff collectors to bring the price down.

Any questions/comments - direct to fpindustries@gmail.com.

Brian

P.S. - if you want my guys in China to try to find a particular kind of Chinese handcuff - send me a photo of what you are looking for and I will forward it to them.

Edgeplay_Cgo 01 Jul 2006

>I'm in Canada.

Oh well! I guess I'll ghave to dredge up some international treaty.

Actually, since eBay is a US based entity, you're probably trading under US law and subject to its provisions. The US government could theoretically indict and extradite you. I don't think I'd hold my breath waiting for that, though.

> Who the heck are the Carnegies and Rockefellers?

Andrew Carnegie was a steel tycoon of the 1880s to 1900s, founded Carnegie Steel, richest man in the world in 1900.

John D Rockefeller founded Standard Oil and literally cornered the market on petroleum. His company was broken up under the Sherman Antitrust Act in about 1911.

Anyway, this is about as far OT as I should wander without having a cold beer in my hand.

Bruce Thomson 01 Jul 2006

#10

I guess one way to protect yourself is to decide what you can live with for a base price on these cuffs and start the auctions at that price.
The one cent auction is a device used to stir up low ball bidders into a bidding war to drive up the price - maybe there should be a law against that.
It cant be that difficult to get these items from China, they are more and more interested in trade and commerce with other countries so I cant see it being all that big a deal.

Brian Sloan 02 Jul 2006

#11

You said it can't be that tough to get these cuffs from China, as they are interested in trade, etc. Well - you're right! It's simple.

Here's how to do it:

Buy a plane ticket to China. Obtain a Chinese visa. Fly to China. Find antique dealers who sell Chinese police handcuffs with whom communication is possible. Avoid dysentery. Buy the handcuffs. Avoid being caught by Chinese customs officials. Avoid duty entering the US. List on ebay. Collect money.

Ellis 02 Jul 2006

#12

Uhhh.

So, you admit you have violated the export rules of China.

You seem to glory in violating the laws of the United States.

Thanks.

Brian Sloan 02 Jul 2006

#13

Tough crowd.

1200cuffs 02 Jul 2006

#14

Brian:
Don't worry. These guys are are the talkers, not the buyers. The serious bidders will buy your cuffs at the price they think is fair, and not complain. I am curious as to why one of your cuffs dissapeared from ebay after it was listed.
A

kuffs 02 Jul 2006

#15

Hi

About a month ago, I announced that I would like to write an article in the 07 Annual about Chinese handcuffs and other restraints. Coincidentally, I bought a nice brass cuff from Mr. Sloan on eBay at about the same time and find it worthy of including a picture of it in the article.
A week ago, I wrote back to ask if I could interview him about his travels to China and to gather info for the article. It is ironic that this thread started shortly after our first interview and the discussion raises some interesting questions. Some of these pertain to auction etiquette, case law and trade restrictions. I doubt that there will be any resolution to most of the questions that were bought up, but I find them all interesting and I hope that they will continue. My article will not deal with the eBay issues as I want to focus on the handcuffs themselves. This thread is very timely as I am still trying to find answers to many questions. The first questions that I can use help on is:

If tourists and the public are forbidden to own the older brass cuffs and must smuggle them out of the country, how is it possible that the much stronger steel H&R style cuffs can be sold and exported by the case load? The same is true for the crude but rugged pin tumbler leg irons that come with the screw on cover and with or without weighted chains.
The older and flimsy brass cuffs were supposed to be turned in to the government and the H&R cuffs were issued as the replacements. It seems to me that once the older cuffs became obsolete, the govt. would care less about them and try to restrict the new ones as they do in England and Australia. Maybe Mr. Sloan's explanation is be best answer.
He stated that in China, very strange acts and decisions are rarely questioned. Normalcy and logic is not evident nor critical to their daily lives.

mark
"Kuffs"
O--O

Edgeplay_Cgo 02 Jul 2006

#16

> He stated that in China, very strange acts and decisions are rarely questioned. Normalcy and logic is not evident nor critical to their daily lives.

Moreover, the Chinese gummint, in common with ours and probably every other gummint on the planet is hardly a fount of normalcy and logic.

Bruce thomson 02 Jul 2006

#17

And they are still a communist government, a system that hardly allows anything that goes against the system - including independant thought.
Lets hope that every ebayer who is able to pull an Indiana Jones act to get cuffs and other goodies out of China contibutes to a sense of disatisfaction with the lot most Chinese endure and that revolution follows!

Brian Sloan 02 Jul 2006

#18

I have no idea why the new ones can be exported and the old ones cannot. All I know is that one of the guys I deal with told me that one of his clients got caught at the airport and the customs "officials" confiscated a number of Chinese cuffs from him.

In reality - who knows - was the "official" looking for a bribe and after he did not recieve one, confiscated the cuffs? Is there a real "law" regarding exporting old Chinese handcuffs? Does the "law" depend on who looks through your stuff when you are leaving the country? The answers to these questions are maybe, or maybe not. Who knows. I'm sure even the Chinese don't know the answers, and whether the answer is yes, no, or maybe - most Chinese people would not be surprised.

Regarding Bruce's comment:

"And they are still a communist government, a system that hardly allows anything that goes against the system - including independant thought.
Lets hope that every ebayer who is able to pull an Indiana Jones act to get cuffs and other goodies out of China contibutes to a sense of disatisfaction with the lot most Chinese endure and that revolution follows!"

In reality - they are no longer Communist, although the "Communist party" is still in control. They have done away with almost all Communist ideals - they don't even have a welfare system anymore for the poor. Government policies are strongly encouraging industrial growth, often at the expense of the health of the people. In reality, the Chinese system is a capitalist fascist dictatorship. The people do not vote for the president. The people do vote in a way for local officials which represent them in some kind of national congress, but votes in the national congress are made by applause. Yes - applause. If everyone claps - the bill is passed.

So in reality - to care whether or not the cuffs are "smuggled" out of China or not is small potatoes in comparison to just about.. well.. anything. To pull an "Indiana Jones" as Bruce puts it, at least for me, is satisfying.

After the Olympics, I believe the government will open up at least a little. When half a million tourists from all around the world realize at the same time that they can't Google the words freedom, democracy, tianamen square, or even freestyle swimming for that matter - the government will feel some pressure, which will hopefully translate to more freedoms for the Chinese people.