H M Dartmoor Prison Handcuffs

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

JOE & all: i do not want to muddie up the waters but, i have to disagree with the theory that ALL cuffs marked H. M. DARTMOOR PRISON etc are legit, althou some maybe.... somewhere around here, i have at least 2 letters from long time collectors who were collecting restraints in the 1950s & forward that state that PATTERSON SMITH & RUEBEN CRADDOCK (also maybe others like STANLEY SMYTH) took darby handcuffs of all kinds & had them stamped H. M. DARTMOOR PRISON etc..... as i was NOT collecting then, i can only go by hearsay.... i also have letters of tales of other cuffs & other items being stamped & sold by DEANE & ADAMS - PURVEYORS OF MILITIA out of LONDON, ENGLAND back in the 50s & 60's ... maybe even later.... this was done by ALL to spur the sales of these items that no one wanted & i guess it worked as they seemed have sold & are still selling.... i have also suspected that many of the darby cuffs with unknown markings were also in this catagory, but as NO PROOF abounds against the markings - one just has to assume that they are 100% legit.... i am sure that i will catch alot of flak on this, but i tell it like it is - always have & always will.... joe tanner

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Hi Joe

You may be right. It is quite possible that a dealer in the 50s or 60s made these up and sold them to collectors at that time. If collectors bought them then, they would easily survive to resurface now and again. In fact I was convinced that the stamping was added by a dealer until I got this last pair and it turned out to be a another left handed Darby just like one of my previously acquired H M Dartmoor P. cuffs. (The first left handed Dartmoor handcuff is one I bought from you, so i will be the first to admit that you know more of its history than I do.)

Do you know the connection between Patterson Smith and RCS? I was told that he was told once that he was at least partially responsible for the heavy Boer War repros that RCS made in the 1950s.

cheers
Joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Hi Joe

You may be right. It is quite possible that a dealer in the 50s or 60s made these up and sold them to collectors at that time. If collectors bought them then, they would easily survive to resurface now and again. In fact I was convinced that the stamping was added by a dealer until I got this last pair.

But it turned out to be a another left handed Darby just like one of my previously acquired H M Dartmoor P. cuffs. (The first left handed Dartmoor handcuff is one I bought from you, so i will be the first to admit that you know more of its history than I do.) Since left handed cuffs are relatively rare I figured that it increased the chance of it being a legit prison cuff. But then a clever dealer would know that as well so my observation does not really mean much.

Do you know the connection between Patterson Smith and RCS? I was told once that he was at least partially responsible for the heavy Boer War repros that RCS made in the 1950s.

cheers
Joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

JOE & ALL :: the word that i have on the R.C.S marked BOER WAR cuff that is PLATED/POLISHED & a smooth finish is that R.C.S marked them FOR - PATTERSON SMITH..... but who actually made them, i do not know for sure... R.C.S or PATTERSON SMITH or another ??? PATTERSON SMITH was the big dealer back then, then came DICK NORMAN, DON HINZ, my father in law (PRYNCE WHEELER) & a few others..... dang it, i really need to find all those old letters that i have.... STAN, can you shed some light on this ??? time permitted, maybe i will have to try to contact a few people like RAY MCKEE, BILL LILLES, ROBERT HYDE, FRED LOGAN etc etc...... check the stamping on the R.C.S BOER WAR cuffs & the stamping on the H.M. DARTMOOR cuffs & i will bet that they are the same.... joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Is Patterson Smith still with us? I used to buy Houdini items off him in the 1980's.

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Whew! Silence. I must have hit a nerve.

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

KEVIN: no problem as i have been trying to find my OLD rollo dex to find PATTERSON's address.... but like eveything else, can't find it. heck i may have thrown it out for all i know.... i last spoke to him, maybe 12-14 years ago.... from the early 1990's & backwards, i would periodically would call PATTERSON, DICK NORMAN, ROSHON, & others or they would call me to see what was going on with what or with who.... sorry to say that they never did have much for sale, but just to talk with them was a precious enough gift for me........ why does MONTCLAIR seem to ring a bell..... JOE

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Joe,

Man! I'm getting old too. Montclair is about 25 minutes frim here. I completely forgot that he was so close. I'll check around.

Thanks....

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

I guess he's still with us.

http://www.patterson-smith.com/

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

KEVIN: thats is, MONTCLAIR, N.J. !! used to be or something like that.... should you contact him, PLEASE give him PAM & my own regrads..... also, should you somehow luck onto any items SHARE WITH ME !! ok... take care.. joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Roshon.... For some reason that rings a bell and I would have to go dig into my library of stuff. Is that the same guy that was in Reading, PA area that sold used books and handcuffs?

-Dorson

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Dorson....I think it's the same guy.

Joe,

I really don't collect the hardware. I have to stick to the paper Houdini and escape artist items. The only cuff I have came from the Houdini sale in NJ in the 80's. They are stamped HOUDINI on each cuff.

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

It is Kevin, it took me awhile to remember and getting upset that I couldn't find the binder that I was looking for with all the info in it. Between a housemate that is an absolute pig and a very helpful girl friend who puts things away and forgets where she put it and like it means anything to her. Still missing the binder which I know is here somewhere along with my CD case with computer programs I have been looking for months...

His name is Franklin M. Roshon and last contact I had with him was well over 10 years ago. At that time he was getting out of the book business and selling all his handcuffs. Something in the back of my head says he lived like the next town over from Reading. I remember picking up some La Pegy's which I sold after adjusting them. La Pegy's out of the box don't always work the way they should. Got some Model 1970's Hiatts if my memory serves me, and watch out for those sharpe edges... And some custom Rivoliers, a 3 cuff arrangement. So given time and his age, it would not surprise me if he has passed...

-Dorson

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

DORSON :::: AND ALL ::: since i can't locate any of his old letters to me right off & if memory serves me right how does POTTSTOWN, PA sound ???? several of the books that i have been selling & are selling on EBAY, i got from ROSHON....joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Joe, Looking on a map, yes, I vote Pottstown....

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

As of about 2 years ago Frank Roshon was living in a nursing home near Pottstown. His nephew sold off all the remaining cuffs on eBay.
Stan

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Hi Joe,
I have never seen a cuff marked with the prison name before.
In looking at your pictures, I am trying to see if all of the stampings are identical.
I do not know the history of the prison, particularly how long it was in existence, but it seems to me that they would have had several stamps made up over the years and that the odds of all your cuffs bearing the exact same stampings would be very high.
When looking over the collection, one might think that there would be some variation between the stampings.
If a seller had marked his cuffs to improve sales, he most likely would have had only one stamp made up and all of his cuffs would be marked the same.
Just a thought!

mark
O--O

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. If you use P&L, Thayer, Brema etc. for an example, they used their same stamp for years and years.

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Mark
Not all Marks are identical (think of Lyons vs Cannon for example ) but the HM Dartmoor P marks all do seem to be identical. So I think they wee all applied using the same stamp, either by the prison or by one dealer.

The prison itself is a well know establishment with a history of famous guests.

http://www.dartmoor-prison.co.uk/

Joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Mark
Oh yea,I have several cuffs in my collection that were used in prisons
and have prison markings,Alkatraz,Sing Sing,Yuma Territorial Prison,for sure.

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

This is gonna sound really, really stupid, but it's reality.

If I'm in charge of a prison, why should I waste my time stamping cuffs?

Who in the world is gonna swipe the things from me?

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Hmmmm. Transferring prisoners? Not to mix-up the cuffs from different agencies?

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

I have a set of RCS size 2 cuffs marked HM Dartmoor. I agree with the suggestion of why would any prison bother to stamp their name on cuffs. I did have a coffee cup marked 'Stolen from H M Prison Dartmoor' which makes sense as a sales gimic in their shop. Perhaps that would be a better stamping on the cuffs.
I have been meaning to visit their Museum for a long time and so have made arrangements to go 1st week in March (Dartmoor is about 90 miles from my house). I will see what I can find out and try and get some photos.
I do not believe that the cuffs were stamped by any sellers in the USA (I do know that when I bought items from Don Hinz he stamped his name on them). I also know that a dealer called Mike Ross who ran a government surplus store called Military Marine often stamped items - the early German DP type cuffs with the L shape keyway were stamped GESTAPO 1943 when I got them from him, also latter picked up a german chain twister stamped the same. He was certainly a character - died very suddenly at age about 40 of a mysterious virus (I often wondered whether he had bought some old army items which had been contaminated). Must also tell you that when I was with 'Fetters' we sold him quite a lot of the Pre 1900 range of cuffs, LI etc. when I visited The London Dungeons guess what there were several of these on display as genuine old medieval items, also when Osborne Smith sold part of his waxworks museum on The Isle Of Wight I bought several items including some 17th century neck collars and cuffs - yes again Fetters aged products.
Will keep you informed about the Museum.
Chris

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

So does this mean the "left handed" Hiatt cuff I have, without all the funny prison markings, might be a legit item?

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

FRANKLIN: they are ALL legitimate handcuffs be it a RIGHT hand or a LEFT hand threaded..... joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Dear Joe,

I've spoken to the acting curator of the Dartmoor Prison Museum and they have no examples of any restraints in their collection being stamped H.M.Dartmoor P.

I've mentioned before and the curator agrees that the correct method of identification would be H.M.P Dartmoor and I think it unlikely, as the authorities are / were sticklers for detail that they would incorrectly mark items.

I currently own four left hand threaded cuffs and a pair of left handed long chain leg irons none of which have any marking other than the standard warranted wrought best etc. Have all the examples you've encounted marked HM Dartmoor P been found in the States or have you obtained any from the UK?

I don’t doubt that cuffs were stamped with the name or a particular prison. Cuffs with a location followed by goal or jail do exists and I'm sure at least some are genuine however these institutions pre date the formation of a national prison system and could be considered as independent institutions.

The fact that two out of the three pairs are left handed does add credence to your theory however if someone has stamped a batch of cuffs to add interest or value it is possible that the batch obtained just happened to have a large percentage of left handers in them.

Also if anyone happens to have a picture of the chain room at Dartmoor would the please post it. I think a few people will be amazed. (It's the room where they stored the restraints)

Regards,

Mark from the UK

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Mark (from the UK - lots of Marks in the business)

Thanks for the note. It makes sense to me.

In answer to your question. Two of the three cuffs I own were purchased from UK dealers on eBay. The third was purchased here from Joe Tanner. (Hi Joe)

Joe

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Hi Mark (UK)
Very interested to hear you have a set of Left Hand Leg-Irons - never seen a pair, are they marked Hiatt and do they have an original key? You mention the old photo of the restraints room at Dartmoor, I have seen this and it is on display at Rippon Museum. Quite out of this world - most items seem to be darby pattern but there were certainly a lot of earlier Plug cuffs and LI.
Will try and get a copy sent and posted here.
Chris

This is a subject that we have addressed on the Forum before, but I just acquired another pair and have some new thoughts.

Darby handcuffs marked H M Dartmoor P have been around for many years. The Don Stewart book on the Stanley Smyth collection published in 1981 showed a pair of RCS cuffs with this stamping across one hinge. Someone else found another pair of RCS with the stamping last spring. I have also seen a pair of Fields & Sons cuffs with the same mark.

The photo shows three examples of Hiatt cuffs with the H M Dartmoor P mark.

The question has always been, "are these actually from the prison? Or did some dealer or collector add the stamping to increase the value of his cuffs?"

For a long time I have been skeptical, but this latest cuff has convinced me that they are legit.

The new cuff is the one at the top of the photo. I saw the Dartmoor marking before I bought the cuff, but it turns out to be unusual in another way as well. Like cuff number two in the picture takes a left handed key. This means that two of my three Hiatt cuffs marked Dartmoor are left handed. Left handed Darbies are quite rare. I have encountered only three examples, the two with Dartmoor markings and a third which is a unusually small cuff with no prison mark.

So I think the Dartmoor mark is real. The prison system is known to have used unusual cuffs for higher security. Left handed keys are not readily available so they represent a reasonable level of security.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has a cuff with this marking.

Cheers
Joe

Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

The leg irons are marked Hiatt and do have the original larger diameter leg iron key with corresponding numbers. They are in lovely condition and it was an extra treat to realise they were left handed.

I've since spoken to the curator at Dartmoor Prison and he has a postcard image of the chain room in his personal collection of prison postcards which he is prepared to scan and send me on the condition that he gets a little information from me in return. If the image arrives I'll also post it here or email it to those who express an interest.

Regards,

RMP (Mark)