Slave or Dog Collar?

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello,
The item you mention which was offered on ebay is more than likely a collar for some sort of animal. I saw this item and was in fact a bidder. These sorts of screw lock collars often show up and are mistaken for slave collars. Some so advertised have fetched sums as high as $1500.00 USD at public auction houses! Both Hiatt of Birmingham and the firm of Thomas Froggatt made such collars in the mid to late 1800's. Given the small circumferance of such collars it is very likely that they were made with the intention that they were to be used on farm animals. This is all the more possible when one considers that both Hiatt and Froggatt made bull rings and other forged steel and iron items to be used on farms. Unfortunately, pictures of collars like this have appeared in guide books dealing with the collecting of Civil War period and slavery related items. The authors of such publications did not do the proper homework and wrongly designated these devices as "slave identification collars" (often bogus modern made slave shackles are also mistaken for vintage and also make appearances in books dealing with these subjects). It is really a pity because now that these items have appeared in published books, many people believe what a so called leaned author has imparted when it is simply not so. This false information has lead many people to pay big bucks for some of these locking collars which they certainly do not warrant. As a related sideline, please be certain to beware other so called "slave collars" which have flooded ebay of late. These collars are made of leather (usually old worn leather cut from an old saddle or farm device) and have copper and/or brass tags affixed to them which have stamped words attempting to link them to the slave trade but they are fakes pure and simple. The brass or copper tags are aged with acid to give them an authentic looking patina. While the locking Hiatt or Froggatt animal i.d. collars are indeed old, these current leather ones are a deliberate fraud. Hope this helps some. Regards, Steve Santini

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

You present good arguments. However:
- why would anyone use a locking system based on screw? Buckles were already invented at this time.
- the circumference is certainly big enough to have these devices applied to children and female slaves (also people used to be much smaller in general in the 19th centrury)
- Hiatt and Froggatt not only made bull rings and other forged steel and iron items but handcuffs and other restrictiva.
I still hope there is a collector proofing one of the thesis by a reproduction of a contemporary catalog listing.

Martin

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello,
The screw type locking mechanism is certainly not out of character when one considers that the firms who made these sorts of devices used screw type locks as the sole method of fastening all of the leg irons and cuffs they made. While you raise an intersting point that the circumferance of the collars would fit a child or female no examples exist to my knowledge which are of any greater circumferance; i.e. no "male" examples have yet been seen in any number. Why would someone make a collar just for female and child slaves? Were not healthy males more of a money prize to the owners of plantations? Also, would one not think that of all the slaves imported, strong healthy males were more likely to attempt an escape and thus were in need of such an identification? It may interest you to know that in old Hiatt catalogs, there exist, (and please pardon my political faux pas here), illustrations of what were known as "nigger collars". These collars, so designated and titled, were certainly made for use on slaves of the period. However, the collars under discussion were not I.D. collars and were equipped with a totally different type of screw lock which was commonly found on "Plug 8" cuffs and irons. As barbaric as it may seem, it is far more likely that branding was used as a method of identifying slaves to particular owners and/or plantations as opposed to special collars and/or anklets. It would have been far too expensive in the days of slavery to make and purchase individual ID collars for the tens of thousands of slaves who were transported to the New World. A study of the cost of handcuffs and leg shackles made in this period will readily show that collars of such fine manufacture as the one on Ebay would have been simply cost prohibitive. Regards, Steve Santini.

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello,
If I may, I would like to add my two cents to this forum. I have been in the antiques business for over 35 years and a collector for longer. These locking collars have always been bought, sold & traded as slave collars, not proof, just to let you know where I'm coming from. I have 8 of these in my collection, some ID'd and some not. They range in length at the largest setting from 19 1/2" down to 9 3/4" that only fits on an ankle. There are many out there that fit adult males. 7 of the 8 fit me. I'm 165 lbs. / avg. build. One is marked Hiatt. The Hiatt company was founded in 1780 and as you know is still in business today. It is a known fact that they supplied restraint items to the slave trade including collars.
You mentioned that it would be cost prohibitive to put these on the tens of thousands of slaves that came over here. These collars were only put on slaves that had a history of running away. Speaking of cost prohibitive, it certainly would not make any sense to put them on a dog that had no intrinsic value. These collars do not have provision for a leash or rope to tie the animal up. I agree with Martin that a collar with a buckle is best suited for a dog or farm animal.
I do have some convincing proof that these are for slaves. One of the collars in my collection is period engraved with a racial slur. It says in three lines:
" Who's dog are you
Butler at Logles
1857 "
I don't think there were many dogs that worked as butlers. I also have a wax seal for documents that has a carved horn handle of a black man in a powdered wig and a lead or pewter collar around his neck. It was engraved in a manor to show two rows of chains and also is engraved with VII.
Thank you for your time and look forward to your comments.
Warren

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hi,
It is only my opinion but I still think the majority of these screw locking collars were made for animals. Proof that other styles of locking metal collars were in fact made for dogs and animals can be seen on ebay where brass and metal antique padlocking Victorian period dog and animal collars occassionaly appear for sale. The fact that the word "dog" would even appear engraved in the text on any locking collar only serves to point to the fact that it was probably intended for a dog in the first place. It is interest to note that of all the other padlocking antique dog collars that are not screw key and have been offered on ebay in the past few years, I have yet to see any variation that is equipped with an additional staple, hasp, or any other point to which one could secure or attatch a leash or chain. The mystery deepens. Steve Santini

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello again.
Just a couple of additional points. I believe that after the civil war ended, yankee resourcefulness being what it is, probably re-marketed these collars as dog collars as the market fell out of the slave trade. That is if they were slave collars in the first place.I guess we will be guessing about these until someone digs up the skeleton of a slave with one of these around his or her neck.
Warren

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello,
Almost every culture on the planet was involved with slavery of some form in both ancient times and modern times. There have been found Roman slave collars with sayings like "stop me, I'm running away". Since there is nothing new under the sun, why wouldn't those in the 17th - 19th centuries involved in the slave trade use slave collars ?
Thanks again.
Warren

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Who can really say for certain?
What I find interesting is the number of these things I have seen show up or be for sale with NOTHING engraved on the brass inlaid metal tag. One would think these sorts of collars or anklets would have been made to order and were not "stock" items. It puzzles me why some person would go to the trouble to order one of these things to be made and then not bother to have it engraved or stamped with a name. It may interest some of this thread to know that in the collection of locks at the former Houdini Magical Hall of Fame in Niagara Falls Canada there was the locking mechanism to one of these things on display (without it's chain links)in a cabinet that held a number of locks and manacles. Purportedly it was said to have come from Houdini's collection (as were all of the other locks and cuffs on display although this is doubtfull). It is too bad there was not a descriptive tag explaining what it was believed to be. Some of the other items in this case had such tags. It would have been interesting to hear what Houdini thought it may have been, (if in fact he had indeed actually owned it once). I have to agree the earlier comment that until we find remains with one of these on the body they, (the locking tags), cannot be 100% attributed to the slave trade. This would certainly convince me. Regards, Steve Santini

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

I have three of these collars, two that might be considered neck size and one that has a circumference of about ten inches. One is marked Froggatt and the other two of them have no makers mark.
Each of the three has a brass name plate which was never engraved.

I don’t know what the intended use was, but I doubt that they were used on humans. I say this simply because they are too easy to open. They fasten with a very simple key that fits over a protruding post. On two of mine you can grab and turn this post with your fingernails and open them without any key at all. On the third example the post is too short to reach but you can still open them with almost anything that fits into the hole, even a simple wooded stick.



A nineteenth century Hiatt advertisement featuring all sorts of animal products.

Joe

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello,
It may interest some collectors to know there is a currently one of these oft called "slave collars" currently on ebay which bears a description which very clearly links it to use on a pet dog. The item number is 2238638801.

This item is interesting because it's engraving sounds somewhat like what was mentioned in a previous post, i.e., "who's dog are you", but in this case the collar is also engraved with a reference to the wearer being an actual dog.

Looks like a little more support for the theory that these collars were meant for use on animals and not humans. Regards, Steve Santini

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

I guess there is nothing to do with the slave thing. I guess it is just a dog collar. Maybe in some era it use as slave dog collars but it is past, it is history. That antique collar that you are talking here really strikes me and arouse my interest. I am also a dog collars collector. In fact I purchase collars for dogs from this site most of the timehttp://www.hotdogcollars.com/categories ... llars.aspx .

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

If you look at these brass name tag "Slave Collar" a few things jump right off the plate. One is the use of little symbols stamped in like Flour de Lis, Masonic symbol, silver maker marks, etc. They are always done in empty text fields on the items to fill in areas that make the brass plate look "empty" Also notice ridiculous wear holes placed randomly on the plate in numbers places. Maybe they will put two big ones over a rivet to make it appear that the rivet caused the brass to wear through. This rarely happens so pridicably in real life. Also note a lot of little smaller wear holes placed randomly around the plate to fill in blank areas. All meant to deceive. Who ever the asshole (s) are who are making these expensive rip off fakes STOP. You are cleaver, but you can't fool an expert. Also not the people on Ebay selling these. They usually build up a short history of good responses with legit items before their con is set. Beware. Also look at the dusty appearance. They do this to make the leather looked old and dry and it also fills in the stamping on the plate.

Hello,
If I may, I would like to add my two cents to this forum. I have been in the antiques business for over 35 years and a collector for longer. These locking collars have always been bought, sold & traded as slave collars, not proof, just to let you know where I'm coming from. I have 8 of these in my collection, some ID'd and some not. They range in length at the largest setting from 19 1/2" down to 9 3/4" that only fits on an ankle. There are many out there that fit adult males. 7 of the 8 fit me. I'm 165 lbs. / avg. build. One is marked Hiatt. The Hiatt company was founded in 1780 and as you know is still in business today. It is a known fact that they supplied restraint items to the slave trade including collars.
You mentioned that it would be cost prohibitive to put these on the tens of thousands of slaves that came over here. These collars were only put on slaves that had a history of running away. Speaking of cost prohibitive, it certainly would not make any sense to put them on a dog that had no intrinsic value. These collars do not have provision for a leash or rope to tie the animal up. I agree with Martin that a collar with a buckle is best suited for a dog or farm animal.
I do have some convincing proof that these are for slaves. One of the collars in my collection is period engraved with a racial slur. It says in three lines:
" Who's dog are you
Butler at Logles
1857 "
I don't think there were many dogs that worked as butlers. I also have a wax seal for documents that has a carved horn handle of a black man in a powdered wig and a lead or pewter collar around his neck. It was engraved in a manor to show two rows of chains and also is engraved with VII.
Thank you for your time and look forward to your comments.
Warren

Click to expand...

Hello Warren,
I absolutely concur with you. I am also in the antique business, early American, I am also a collector. I bought a collar at a local flea market stall around 18 years ago for less than what a new dog collar would cost. The brass plate was tarnished black. Once cleaned the collar read " G.M. Bruce Lynchburg, Va.". George Bruce, the slave owner died in the late 1850's. He was a slave owner and farmer in Cambell Co. Va., also the third great grandfather to Jerry Falwell Jr.. The collar is delicately wrought, with a lock in back. The book "Antique Iron Survey of American and English Forms..." by Herbert Schiffer lists an identical collar in the Sorber Collection as a slave collar. Also "The American Revolution: Mirror Of A People", by William Randel pictures one from the collection. A collar almost identical to mine exists in the adjacent Amherst Co. with a different name.The collar was allegedly passed down through the family. Proof? No but I believe it to be for slaves. Thanks, Jimmy

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Steve Santini,can you respond to my topic ''Info''?

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

There are a number of pictures available on the internet of chained captives wearing neck collars dating from 1903 to 1906 from German SW Africa. A few of these pictures are of high enough resolution that details of the collars can be determined. The collars used are of high quality and certainly were not made in locally in Africa so presumably made in Germany.
I can send copies of pictures of these collars in use upon request.

As new to this forum I have not figured out how to attach pictures yet.

F Wilson

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

you have to find an off forum 'other' photo posting site and save your photo there.
then copy the URL (internet address) of that photo and add it to your message here.

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

I have uploaded pictures of the collars in use. One picture which is extremely high resolution for early 1900 is of a group of boys wearing collars and chains. There are also details of faces of several of the boys and their collars that I was able to make from the larger picture. There is another picture of a different group of what appear to be teens and older men all wearing chains and collars which from about the same years. This second picture gives a better idea of the size of the chains attached to the collars. A third picture, that is modern, is from a display in a museum in the former German colony of Togoland and shows more details of what appear to be very similar German collars. Finally there is a picture of a "Labor Identification Metal" that workers were required to wear on a thong around their necks. Two of these metals can be seen in the first picture.

Link to pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/90788427@ ... 390976680/

Hope this helps.

F Wilson

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

I wonder if the Muehlenfeld company could have something do with these. I've seen this type before, the design looks somehow familiar.


Nils

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

I don't have any information on who made them. However I am sure they were not made anywhere in Africa and must have been made by what was, for the time, a modern metal fabrication shop. most likely in Germany. This is because the tabs on the collars for attaching the lead chains and parts of the locking mechanism appear to be welded on. Welding of that type was a very new technology at the time, having only been perfected and come into use in industry in the 1890ies. The chain also shows that it was manufactured by a modern process for the time.

This type of collar was apparently in fairly widespread use in the African colonies of the German Empire judging by the number of pictures of them in use that have survived.

The collars used in about the same period in western Australia to restrain captured aboriginals are much more crude, often being no more than a chain looped around the prisoners neck and locked in place.

Any further information on by whom or how they were manufactured would be appreciated.

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Hello,

These collars are certainly interesting and I agree they are most likely of German origin.

As Nils says, they might be manufactured by Mühlenfeld but as they have not been seen in the Mühlenfeld catalog,
I believe they might have been manufactured by a different maker. But who knows?

I recognized them as soon as I saw them but I couldn't really recall from where. Then I searched my own photo library
and finally found the photo below. I have no clue from where I got this photo but the same type of collars, and even leg irons,
are seen together with a bunch of Mühlenfeld restraints.

One set is even a combination with a set of Mühlenfeld 115 (handcuffs)and and a set of leg irons of the same pattern as the collar. They are obviously contemporary.

Not much new information I'm afraid.

Lars

www.holstcollection.com

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

I agree they are the same collars and the manufacturing details appear to be the same. I had not seen ankle shackles before with this type of lock.

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Just a bit of info, that photo you have Lars came from myself. It was from an expired online auction with a similar format as eBay. The seller was said to be from South Africa and the restraints did not sell. I once contacted the auction company who claimed to do their best to contact the seller but stated their contact info was not up to date or not legit. On one hand it seemed like a scam but even if that was the case, someone, somewhere, took that photo of those restraints meaning they're out there.

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Ok, Joshua. Now I recall the story behind the photo. It was a few years ago.

As you say, we don't know if it was a serious auction or a scam as the photo itself
could be old and "borrowed".

Nevertheless, it's a very nice selection of ultra rare restraints. It really would be interesting
to get some information about the collars and leg irons of the same design.

I wonder if any collector has a set of these in their collection?

Lars

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/m ... 1333818922

I recall this image from a scam committed in 2012 on one of our English members.
But yes, they must exist somewhere.
Paul

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

In the below list of advertisements for run away slaves, this documentation describes the run away and what form of restraint he or she was confined to.

This sheds some light as to the slave/ dog collar discussion.

http://usslave.blogspot.com/2011/02/tor ... tters.html



WITNESS: Mr. T. J. De Yampert, merchant, Mobile, Alabama, of the firm of De Yampert, King & Co., in the "Mobile Chronicle,'' June 15, 1838.

TESTIMONY: "Ranaway, a negro boy about twelve years old—had round his neck a chain dog-collar, with 'De Yampert engraved on it.''



mark
O--O

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Paul,
I certainly have a short memory as I saw I also posted on the thread from 2012...
Say no more!

Thanks for posting the link.

Lars

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

At the Milwaukee Art Museum

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

A photo of our terrier, guarding my collection. No collar though...
Cute, isn't she?

Lars

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Very cute Lars & Best Wishes for a Happy & Healthy 2016!

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Thanks! To you too Paul!

Lars

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

OMG, Lars do you have female wardens in your prison ?
R

Hi

In a recent eBay Auction I found the follownig statement by the seller: "I remember reading an article recently about a slave collar, that turned out to be a dog collar when someone found an old catalog that showed the exact item."

Has anyone seen this article and can tell me where to find it?

Martin

Yes and she is very committed to her mission.

Lars