The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

bump key news video

17 visible archived posts · 17 preserved total · topic ID 1912

michael griffin 01 Apr 2007

just saw this posted
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/498491/lo ... ancisco_3/

Phil Ingram 01 Apr 2007

A very similar news story ran on our local news in Atlanta, Georgia about two weeks ago. Since I live in an apartment, I can't change the lock, but I can sure buy an alarm set off by motion detection.

Dorson 02 Apr 2007

They run the chance of meeting my buddies, Heckler & Koch, and they also believe in reaching out and touching someone, even through a sniper scope if need be...

Mick Hanzlik 02 Apr 2007

There is a lot of talk by Locksmiths over here in the UK about this at the moment. How worried are the US people about this? I know that this method has been used by Locksmiths over here for over 15 years, but has not been well known by the public, so I was just wondering if the US "Man in the Street" is panicking and getting his locks upgraded.

This information could be helpful over here.

It would be kinda nice to have a ready made solution for when we have to cope with it.

Thanks

Mark Lyons 02 Apr 2007

Mick,

I get about 5 calls a day asking about bumping and about 3 customers a week will actually buy Medeco deadbolts throughout their house. (average price= $700) Even thought it would cost way less to outfit a business than the average house here, most people are concerned with only protecting their homes.
I had a pretty large stock of Medeco deadbolts and have practically sold all of them.
The 3 supply houses that I usually buy from are completely sold out. It takes about 3 weeks to get them from the factory. I have not heard any specifics, but I believe the factory is now open during the graveyard hours.

I tried bumping a couple of years ago and thought it was a cool novelty, but when I had a tough lock to open with no success, I tried to bump it. It took less than a minute and I now bump 90% of the time instead of picking in lockout situations.
Not much thought is put into vehicle locks, but I suppose it will be soon when internet videos show the jiggle key sets. They work even better than bumping and are easier to make.

Hope this helps,

mark
O--O

Mick Hanzlik 02 Apr 2007

Mark..The difference between the US locks and ours in the UK is that the majority of yours are pin tumbler mechanisms, even the high security type.

Ours are mainly lever locks, although we do have Medeco, Abloy, Bilock etc.

Bumping will be a major problem, but in many cases, on wood doors anyway, we can fit high security lever deadlocks which although they can be picked using hi-tech tools, these tend to be out of reach of your normal crim.

But we do have loads of plastic doors with pin tumbler cylinders, so we will need to find a solution, as we can't fit mortice locks designed for wood on hollow plastic doors!

Apparently the Abloy and Bilock can't be bumped, and they both make cylinders that will fit plastic doors, so we might get some panic sales!

It's an interesting topic, and finding a solution will be even better!

Regards

Mick

Mark Lyons 02 Apr 2007

Mick,

Are you referring to the Euro profile cylinders? By this I mean the single or double cyl. lock that is keyhole shaped and usually mounted upside-down. The singles have a turn knob on the back and the assembly is slid through the door and secured with a single screw in the edge of the door. If so, Medeco also makes these and I would stock a few.
I think the Bi-Lock can be bumped as I do not recall any sidebar or other hi-sec. device in them. I have a cut away sample and I will look at it later.

Perhaps we are getting away from the subject matter, so how is this for a segway:
This bump phenomena is causing such a panic that I hope the extra money that is coming in, will allow me to be the high bidder on lots of great new handcuffs.

mark
O--O

Mick Hanzlik 02 Apr 2007

Yes, I'm talking about Euro Cylinders. Not too sure about the Bilock, as it has two sets of pins, so could be more tricky.

Sorry to go away from Handcuffs, but to bring it back again, what about making a bump key for those pin tumbler locks that are sometimes fittedin cuffs. Trouble is....how could you bump them if both your hands were locked in the cuffs???

Andy58 03 Apr 2007

Hello,
i am from germany and member of http://www.handschellenforum.de

I also make some lockpicking and have tried bumping too. In germany, euro profile cylinders are very popular. The more precise cylinders are made the more difficult thea are picked by traditional methods and the more easy they are bumped (standard cylinders or dimple key cylinders). For this reason i have an Abloy Protec cylinder for my door, it is definitely impossible to bump it, because the discs have to be rotated to the right angles, not pushed.

But for locks like in Hiatt HSS9 or Rivolier i think it is easier to pick them traditionally because they have greater tolerances that makes bumping more difficult.

For extra high security i have made darby cuffs with build in Abloy Camlocks by myself...

Regards
Andy58

Mick Hanzlik 03 Apr 2007

#10

It would be good to see a picture of your darbies with the Abloy locks. Any chance of posting a one?

Andy58 03 Apr 2007

#11

Hello,
posting a picture is difficult in the moment. But you can look at http://www.handschellenforum.de/forum/v ... r&start=30 last posting. My avatar in this german forum is showing me wearing my abloy darby. There is an additional threads where i am showing my darby just after it was finished: http://www.handschellenforum.de/forum/v ... php?t=1292 in the first posting there are some more pictures. This first prototype is made from ordinary steel, not stainless steel and it is not plated.

Now i am making 3 pairs made of V2A stainless steel and one matching pair of legirons. One pair of handcuffs and the legirons are for myself, the other two pairs of handcuffs are already ordered. There is a "making of" in this forum: http://www.handschellenforum.de/forum/v ... php?t=1397 sorry that it is just in german language.

It takes a very long time to make them because i have only small machines and V2A stainless steel is very hard to deal with. Until now the new pairs are not finished.

Regards
Andy58

Mick Hanzlik 03 Apr 2007

#12

Those Abloy Darbies are really nice! I'd like to see those used in a challenge. Are they gaffed?
Thanks for the pictures

MH

Andy58-no login possible-other PC 03 Apr 2007

#13

Hello,
the Abloy darbys are not gaffed, they are real! Perhaps you have read some postings from unimuc, he is also doing lockpicking, i think better than me. He has tried the cuffs but he has not tried to pick them (nearly impossible for an Abloy lock, especially Abloy Exec or Protec). And he has not found other weak points in the locking mechanism. There is no snap, so shimming is impossible, the cuffs has to be locked by key on the wrist. Also Atame has seen this cuffs, but not tried them. The prototype has an Abloy Exec lock, for final cuffs made of stainless steel Abloy Protec locks will be used, they are a little bit better.

In the pictures where prototype cuffs are just finished you can see loose nails at the hinge and swivel, because this pictures are taken before final mounting. But later rivets are inserted and welded in place, so no disassembling is possible.

Sorry, i cannot login because last postings are made from another pc (not at home), now i cannot use my name "Andy58" at my home pc. I also cannot register with this name. Hope, tomorrow (now it is 11:50pm) i can register with other pc used and then login with my home pc again.

Regards
Andy58

Mikeintightpants 04 Apr 2007

#14

Excellent photos Andy58, thanks for sharing them with us - nice transport belt, too!!
Mike

Andy58 04 Apr 2007

#15

Hello,
the transport belt is a Ralkem 9926 from cuffsland. You push chain loop through staple and handcuffs through chain loop so it is impossible to remove belt without unlocking handcuffs. It is very secure. Theoretical possibility of getting out via pushing chain loop unter handcuff and over hand is not possible in reality because chain loop is much too small to do this.

Transport belt has two layers of thick leather with steel plate inside. I think it is one of the best transport belts and price is less than about $50.

Regards
Andy58

grenchat 04 Apr 2007

#16

Just admiring your handiwork, Andy58!

Periodically, I stop by the Handschellen Forum, even though I must translate most of the text. I must applaud your choice of V2A Stainless Steel, as it will provide optimal corrosion resistance as well as precluding the possibility of nickel allergy.

Do keep us informed as to your latest developments.

Regards,
Jason

Dorson 05 Apr 2007

#17

Nice work andy58, I know difficulties in working with stainless steel. I had never seen the designation of V2A for stainless and sent me looking on the web. For those of us in the Americas, it is ASTM 304 or also know as 18/10 stainless.