The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Vintage cuffs on eBay France

23 visible archived posts · 23 preserved total · topic ID 2079

Jack.Tanis 06 Jun 2007

Hello,

Check them out before they vanish into thin air right before your very eyes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0125854117

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

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lauher 06 Jun 2007

Strange looking thing. Anyone know anything about it?
Joe

anonymous 007 07 Jun 2007

looks like a pretty neat thing to me..

as far as design of things go, this one
looks to have been well thought out.

The seller took some real good pictures.

in one of the pictures it looks like the
cuffs may be brass with nickel plate.

Thank you Jack Tanis for pointing this item
out.

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Albert E. 07 Jun 2007

Looks like a homemade Rube Goldberg device w/ old hardware store salvage.

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joe tanner 07 Jun 2007

i sure would not want to be the winner of this item.... once this sells for high $$$, i think we may just see many more of them... easy to make & i doubt if it is old... look at the gap in the key housing in 3rd photo down..... should not be a gap... what is the locking mechanism ??? a screw with a washer that has 2 cutouts for a key...... maybe old but i doubt it the way they can fabricate metal today, pot a few little dings, scratches, mars, & mars on & into metal today is fantastically easy..... i now even wonder about the chinese cuffs as there seems to be a high number of different models of the same type... well at least with different keyings.... there have been enough restraint collectors since the 1950s who have been able to travel INTO China who never brought any back... but then, China was much more restricted.... even so, there are many Chinatowns here in the states & these cuffs never worked there way to the U.S. ..... why is that ??? but they are more then likely legite.... i just like to open some eyes & brains - maybe --- what do you think ??? the PESIMIST - joe

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Steve Santini 07 Jun 2007

You "doubt if it's old" Joe?

Take a look at the pic that shows the lock tube cylinder.

This shows traces of brass shim braize which was a manufacturing process used to join the components on many old cuffs, plug 8's especially.

Sure, the traces of this may not prove 100% that this cuff is a vintage restraint but why would anyone making anything like this now not WELD the sections together?

Also, look at the bow assembly.

These are cast bows with the hinge section part of the cast assembly.

The hinge was not welded on.

All was cast metal as one section.

A lot of work for someone who felt like making maybe even 1K on Ebay.

This all is just not my opinion. The manufacturing details speak for themselves.

Steve Santini

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Brian 07 Jun 2007

Hi - saw the post about your idea that the Chinese cuffs are fakes - so many of the same type, etc.

You wrote:

"now even wonder about the chinese cuffs as there seems to be a high number of different models of the same type... well at least with different keyings.... there have been enough restraint collectors since the 1950s who have been able to travel INTO China who never brought any back... but then, China was much more restricted.... even so, there are many Chinatowns here in the states & these cuffs never worked there way to the U.S. ..... why is that ??? "

In order:

1. Actually - the only type it is easy for me to find are the common kind I sell on eBay for $55 buy it now. And those are old. There are a billion people in China, and they are pretty tough on crime. It makes sense they have a lot of old models of the more common cuffs. Plus, many are bent, damaged, and corroded - features that almost certainly come with age.

2. China is MUCH more open today than it was in the 1950's all the way through the 1990's. Unless those collectors spoke Chinese AND happened to meet the right people, there is no way they were going to find even one pair of old handcuffs.

3. As for your Chinatowns argument - you are overlooking one key fact: ordinary Chinese people have no idea that people collect old handcuffs or that they have any monetary value. Every single Chinese person I have ever shown my old handcuffs to while in China is amazed because they have simply never seen a pair of old handcuffs.

I'm one of the only people selling the more unusual Chinese cuffs, and I don't think bringing back 2-3 pairs of the same type on one buying trip (after my guy has collected them for 3 months) is excessive to the point where you should doubt their authenticity/age.

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joe tanner 07 Jun 2007

BRIAN & STEVE: well now, it seems that i have opened some brains & eyes... great... as to BRIAN, i think you need to get your eyes checked & learn how to properly read what someone has written.... did i state that the Chinese cuffs were fake ??? NO I DID NOT... towards the end, i even stated - that THEY WERE LIKELY LEGITE - ... as to the rest, i could go on & on, but i won't.... joe

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Steve Santini 07 Jun 2007

No.

No brains and eyes opened.

You have, as usual, only vented your own opinion.

And, judging by what you used to sell in your old mail out catalogues as "authentic"; such as massive "Winchester" padlocks and other things you had people make for you so you could peddle them as "real" , your "opinion" is not worth the key strokes it took to post it.

Steve Santini

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joe tanner 07 Jun 2007

#10

SANTINI: tesk tesk - i see that something else crawled up your A -- & died as usual.... i added to the thread just to open peoples eye & minds, but YOU who thinks he is GODS greatest gift to the escape & restraint community - wjo thinks he knows it all has to be trassie once again.... you know full well that i advertised the locks that you speak of a WORKS OF ART etc etc .. you are not only a FRAUD, a CROOK, but a LIAR as well.... anyone wanting to see a copy of his FRAUDULANT check to me is welcome to contact me & i will be glad to email them an UNEDITED photo of it..... hardly anyone likes you, but they don't cut off their nose to spite their face just in case they can get an item or 2 from you.... in your PROMOTIONAL THREAD --you even have the gull to state::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::; For those who may do escapes on a much smaller scale such as regular platform magic type acts or at other down sized venues you really would be amazed at all that goes into planning such a large scale escape in the "new world".

::::::::::::::::::::

as IF you are the ONLY GREAT escape artist that ever lived ...
since you have to BRAG yourself UP, that shows that you are NOT GOOD !!! etc etc.. YOUR AGENT HAS DONE ALL THE WORK - NOT YOU.... but yet you make it sound as if YOU have pulled off a miracle.... WE ALL KNOW BETTER, you FOOL.... i could go on & on about you & your deceitful ways as i have known you far longer then 99.9% of the people who are in these fields now.... but i won't..... trash... joe

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Atame.Muc 07 Jun 2007

#11

One good reason, why this is no fake: the item is offered at French eBay. Most of the "handcuffs nuts", who pay the really big prices come from USA - so if I want to make a fraud with big profit, I would use eBay.com and not eBay.fr.

Best regards,
Guenter

PS: of course it could be a fake, but in this case the seller does not know it.

PPS: but I am not unhappy, if you are careful and do not bid at this acution!

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brian 07 Jun 2007

#12

Exactly - you stated "likely legit" - I was just clearing things up, as the cuffs are 100% legit. Thank you for your response, though.

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joe tanner 07 Jun 2007

#13

ATAME: you are more then likely correct, but guess what -- it was a nice american collector who posted it to this forum - was it not.... there are many U.S. collectors who now search many different countries EBAYS for items & of course these sellers now know it..... therefore, crooks abound all over the globe.... right.... ........
BRIAN: thank you for clearing that up..... joe

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anonymous 007 08 Jun 2007

#14

probably better to own a set like this rather
than one of those old tire chain / slave neck
collars. you think?

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Edgeplay_Cgo 08 Jun 2007

#15

probably better to own a set like this rather
than one of those old tire chain / slave neck
collars. you think?

I can get you those by the dozen!

And no, I'm not the a'ole who sells them on eBay. They are one of my pet peeves. I report them every time I see them.

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Unknown / guest 08 Jun 2007

#16

You "doubt if it's old" Joe?

Take a look at the pic that shows the lock tube cylinder.

This shows traces of brass shim braize which was a manufacturing process used to join the components on many old cuffs, plug 8's especially.

It's also the way I would make that join, today, with brazing. It's an appropriate way to make that joint with dissimilar shaped and sized members, particularly in prototyping. I suppose it could be TIG welded, but that's a small and finicky weld. I'd prefer to manufacture the piece en-bloc, machining it from a solid block. That locking collar is a basic flaw with the design. Expensive to make well. That's probably why it was done as two pieces.

I can't tell if the bows are cast or forged. I go back and forth between the two opinions. Cast bows would tend to be fragile. The tabs may have been welded to the ends of the bows. One appears to be slightly misaligned. If they were welded, the welds were well ground out.

My first guess was that it had been fabricated from a pipe hanger, but the shape is wrong for that. The bosses on a pipe hanger would be tangent to the hole.

My guess is that it is a hand made prototype. There are signs of hand work all over it. It's an interesting piece.

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Steve Santini 08 Jun 2007

#17

Tanner,

Yes, by all means feel free to show that CASHED cheque I sent you for items I never recieved from you.

You got the cheque, you cashed it as can be seen from it's bank stamp, and you ripped me off by niether sending me anyhing for it or giving my money back.

You have put a lovely "spin" of B.S. on the entire episode over these past years but in fact anyone with half a brain that takes one look at the cheque can see it was cashed.

It was not NSF, and YOU ripped ME off.

I will continue, as I have for many years past, to WARN any and all collectors to have nothing to do with you.

You are a very dishonest person.

Steve Santini

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Anonymous 08 Jun 2007

#18

hotheads tanner and griffin specialize in the rip and spin. buyer beware!

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atlanta*casting 09 Jun 2007

#19

Thanks for the heads up Jack.
I have already bid what they are worth.
Cheers to you also..

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Jack.Tanis 16 Jun 2007

#20

...Bidder 7, at 301 Euros.

Congratulations, Mark a/k/a cuffs a/k/a O--O a/k/a Bidder 7.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

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Mark Lyons 16 Jun 2007

#21

Thank you, thank you...
I would like to thank my manager, my wife and family, the other cast members...
Jack, are you the pretty girl that escorts me up to the podium?
Well maybe while applying chain nippers on me. Thanks anyway.
I am pleased to have won these as I have 3 or 4 similar looking items in the collection. I might include these strange looking cuffs in the annual. There will not be much in the way of text to go with the pictures as I haven't a clue who used them or why. They appear to be French or German and that is about all I know.
If any of you have a scrap of info on these Circle Cuffs, I would be indebted to you dearly.

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Jack.Tanis 16 Jun 2007

#22

Dear Mark,

I gave up on trying to be a pretty girl. It was too much of a drag. I settled for just being pretty. I think that ended, more or less, give or take, when I hit the big 5--0.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

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Joe Lauher 16 Jun 2007

#23

Mark
Congratulations. They are indeed a good match for some of your previous cuffs. I look forward to seeing them in October.
Joe

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