August Schwarz

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Hello Chris,

you are absolutelly right. First model was swing through based on Hudson cuffs, second model was also swing through model either with both cheek plates bet from one plate or riveted together from two parts. This was that famous AUF and AUF / ZU model. Third and all later generations were swing besides.

Schwarz had two patents - the first one was for the whole cuffs, second was orientated towards solution of the hinge. This system of hinge was used on vintage Czechoslovak cuffs later. However I have this item in my collection, it is not shown on my sites now. Difficult to say whose invention this hinge was and who was the manufacturer of these Czechoslovak hinged cuffs with sliders.

Swing besides conception of cuffs was patented much later in the 70s by Carl Reher.

Best wishes

Josef, CZ

www.pouta.org

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

What we need is a nice article on the August Schwarz and other Deutsche Polizei cuff for the Handcuff Annual 2008. Are there any volunteers out there? Perhaps it could be a collaborative effort. I am sure there are lots of people who could submit pictures.

Joe

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Thanks Josef, very interesting do you have a copy of the Reher Patent for swing beside design? What puzzles me now is why should a Patent have been granted purely on this when we know that William Bockin patented his cuff in the USA on Sept 23rd 1924 (No.1,509,335). I do not have his full specifications and so am not sure whether he patented the swing beside design or the mechanism.
Joe I will gather together my Schwarz models and scan them for you but do not know that some collectors have a lot more models than I do and in much better condition. It would certainly make an excellent article.
Chris Gower

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Hello,

that´s a very good idea. I would be very pleased to write an article on this topic.

As you can see from my sites

http://www.pouta.org section Germany

I am trying to complete the whole series of DP. So I have a very good outline of various models and versions. Some models are still missing, but I hope I could cooperate with other collectors like e.g. Guenter. In addition I could add some patent files related to DP cuffs...

So if anybody is not against, I would like to write this article.

Best wishes

Josef, CZ

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Josef

I like you new site very much. It is a very nice addition to the world wide web of handcuff collecting.
I will add a link to the Handcuffs.org link page. How should I list your site?

And I think it would be really nice if you could write and article for us. I have several different DP models, although nothing too unusual. I will take a new set of pictures and send them to you. I am sure other collectors would be glad to do so as well. The history of the August Schwarz and other DP cuffs is very confusing to me and I would really like to see a definitive analysis.

Cheers and thanks
Joe

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Hi,
I posted the picture again on this thread so it would be easier in the future if anyone comes back here for research.
I will check the books mentioned above and see if they show the time line on these cuffs inaccurately.

mark
O--O

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Hi,
Page 110 of the Gross book does show a very similar hinged cuff which is named as the "3rd variation".
My cuff pictured above has the keyholes facing each other when folded.
The cuff pictured in the Gross book have them facing the outside.
If one was to lock both sides of the folding cuffs on their wrist or any stationary object with my cuff, it would be very difficult to remove as the key holes are buried inside. My cuff with this design flaw may have predated the example shown in the Gross book as I doubt the company would change their design from a good one with one that has this problem.
It does appear that they should have been labeled as the 1st variation and should have been described and pictured on or about page 107.

mark
O--O

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Does anybody like to improve his German? I have a nice article about Mr. Schwarz showing his new restraint at an exhibition in 1925 - http://www.atame.info/HI_DP.htm

You can also use http://babelfish.altavista.com/

<img src=" http://www.atame.info/Cuffs/dokus/ndp.jpg ">

Chris, unfortunately I am very busy at the moment, so I fear that I cannot make a good translations of you patent file with all its technical terms in the near future. But the earlier patent 363156 seems to be the restraint that Mark showed above. This cuff has a hinge that only allows 180 degrees movement while the new patent allows 360 degrees. It is written that the hinge of the older version could be broken by force, which is no longer possible with the new improvement.

Same problem that S&W had with the 200 series - history always repeats itself!


Best regards,
Guenter

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

I have three August Schwarz cuffs. I guess they would be called the "second" model.

Here they are:


I think this is the earliest one of this model. Notice the elegant A S trademark. This one is one of my favorite cuffs.


This one has the more conventional markings. Notice that the "up and down" direction has been switched.


The basic cuff has changed. The cuff is now made of two plates and not just one folded over plus the hinge is heavier.

Joe

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Interesting. I have one with only "Auf" marking. Folded over plate and small hinges.



And another one, which is very similar, but marked "auf and "zu" and teh bows are thicker where the teeth are.



Best regards,
Guenter

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Thanks for the august treatment of this topic. I needed to brush up on this part of German handcuff history. In order for this discussion to be germane to me, I'll need to try to aquire a set of these cuffs. Maybe I'll have one by August.

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Joe,
Please look at your first cuff above. I hate to bust your bubble, but your favorite cuff may not be in your Top 10 much longer. I do not believe that the fancy lettering is the initials of August Scwharz (AS). I think you are looking at it upside down and it reads SV which is a Swedish cuff of which manufacturer or seller I am not quite sure of.
I recently received a very similar cuff from Lars and it has the identical markings.
Please examine yours under magnification and let me know if I could be correct with this.

mark
O--O

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Mark and Joe,

Mark is right! The trade mark should read "S V" and is not a August Schwarz cuff. I bought three cuffs in a lot from a Danish weapon dealer a year and a half ago. Both of your cuffs and my set come from the same lot.

According to the seller, these cuffs were manufactured in Denmark by prisoners at a penitentiary (like the DDR cuffs), probably in the 1930´s or 40's.

Lars

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Lars and Mark
Ok. I will admit it a S V mark. My stylized A is certainy a V. Although stylized A S trademark is good interpretation as well. But what is clear the cuff is an exact copy of a legit August Schwarz cuff. I think that it must have some August Schwarz connection. This makes it even more interesting.

The German occupation of Denmark began in 1940. If Danish origin true it would make the most sense that the cuffs were made in the 1940s under the German authorities at that time.

I think I want to know more.
Joe

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Have looked at the August Schwarz cuffs I have, and think I may have a model not shown. They appear to be very old and are not in very good condition. However, they do not have the ZU and AUF markings and are only single locking (have tried 3 Schwarz keys and none will turn anti-clockwise to double lock them). They appear in most respects the same as both Joe and Gunter have shown with the folded aluminium body and small linkage. The keyhole is a little larger than those shown. Unfortunately the screw holding the lock is well seized so will soak it for a few days and see what the lock looks like.
The markings are very faint but the name Deutsche Polizei and August Schwarz are visible.
Will also scan the now known as 3rd model that I have.
Mark the ones that you show are they single locking as well?
Chris Gower

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Have been looking through some old paperwork and have come across the letter that Heinrich Hagge sent me in March 1982.
Okay I know that Hagge & Schwarz were independent manufacturers and probably in competetion with each other - but I assume??? that Schwarz went out of business about 1950???
So the Universal-Handcuff 'German Police'that Hagge sold says:
'It is of light metal is introduced to the German and foreign police,legal authorities and boards of customs and excise for 50 years. It was continously (especially 1954 and 1961) improved'.
So the next question is what were the improvements in 1954 and 1961? I would guess the 1961 'improvement' was where the locks were no longer removable but 1954??
Any thoughts?
Have got Mike visiting tomorrow so he will hopefully show me how to use Photobucket. Now that I have 2 sets of McKenzie Mitts we hope to be able to get a photo of both of us locked in them - problem is will we be able to photogragh it and more importantly be able to unlock them - Any advise
Chris Gower

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Hi all,

I bought this pair of August Schwarz handcuffs about a year ago on Ebay.
The seller informed me that this pair was in service with the Greifswald Prison; label and key are original and do belong to this particular pair of handcuffs.

Reading this very interesting thread, I realized that the history of Schwarz' handcuffs is a complicated matter. I have seen a lot of variations on models, markings etc, and still I seem to find more questions and less answers. For example: why do some of Schwarz' type handcuffs have the marking "Deutsche Polizei - D.R. Pat." (so without August Schwarz- Berlin S.W. 11)?

By the way: is there someone who can provide pictures of Mr. Schwarz and/or his factory?

Regards,

Dirk Hartman - germanhandcuffs.tk

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

(Yes, I know this is a reply to an old thread...)

FYI the full European patent database is at http://ep.espacenet.com and both these can be seen at
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDeta ... cale=en_V3 and
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDeta ... cale=en_V3

(old patents in orig.language only, sorry not my fault)

CU,
deciCuff.

Thought I would start a new thread as continuing on from Gunters original posting is not relevent.
Many thanks Mark for the superb photo you posted of what you call the 1st model.
Can we now assume that both Tom Gross and Alex in their books have got the models wrongly listed?
Would I now be correct in thinking that models 1 & 2 are both swinging bow patterns and the latter models are the swing beside types?
August Schwarz also patented a folding hinge mechanism for handcuffs in 1925 patent No.431786. In this he refers to his earlier patent number 363156. Not sure what it actually says as I have enough problems with French let alone German!
Will send Joe a copy which hopefully he will be able to attach and perhaps someone can do a rough translation.
Chris Gower

Click to expand...

Thanks for the information.