The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

eBay "leg iron" of the year!

17 visible archived posts · 17 preserved total · topic ID 2106

The Amazing Michael 23 Jun 2007

eBay item number 150135308796

These are worth a look, trust me!

Cheers, Mike

jbushey 24 Jun 2007

HI all,
ONly one problem with these. The seller does NOT STATE
that the COA that came with ALL purchases from this auction is included. Without that certificate these Romer leg irons could be any Romer Leg irons. No proof whatsoever they came from Houdini collection. So, be careful. I emailed seller and got no response from them. Is there a COA or not???
Best Wishes, John Bushey

Mark Lyons 24 Jun 2007

Hi
I wrote to to seller and he is concerned about not having the certificate.
I told him that I would check out the catalog and see if the markings match up.

If there is a difference, I believe he will pull it. He seems sincere enough not to want to be caught up selling this if there is enough evidence that this is the real deal.

He also wanted to know if a duplicate certificate can be obtained. Any ideas on that?

mark
O--O

Stan Willis 24 Jun 2007

After comparing the ebau pics to the Radner auction pics, I would say these are the same leg irons that are in the Radner catalog.
I sould still wonder why there is no COA.
Stan

Mikeintightpants 24 Jun 2007

Doubt anybody could issue a duplicate certificate of authenticity. After all, the purpose of such a certificate is to 'prove' they're authentic, but surely it's unlikely that a proper provenance could be established - but then, who would sign it!

Franklin 24 Jun 2007

Well, I suppose I'll wizz off a number of folks about this.

A "Certificate of Authenticity" usually, and most always, ain't worth the paper it's written on. Anyone can come up with one of those.

Oh, it's got a notary stamp on it. Big deal. Hell, I can swear up and down about what "I believe" or what "I was told" about a lot of the crap I've got in my rolltop desk, but that doesn't prove the reality of any of it. A fancy piece of paper with a big gold seal on it don't mean shucks.

As much as many of us would like to own a "genuine" Houdini artifact, look at the simple facts this seller has honestly stated:

Upon Houdini's death, his brother waa instructed to burn and destroy all of his stage property. The brother says he did not do so. Well, that shows he's not someone to be trusted in the first place. Instead, he claimed to have kept them in a basement for 40 years, then loaned them to a museum. They were later sold in the great "Sidney Radner" auction, in Las Vegas, Nevada, the wizzbang, bulls**t capital of the world.

Okay, Houdini screwed around with a lot of restraints over the years. As for these, no initials of his scratched on them. Absolutely nothing. No fingerprints. No DNA. Just a whole lot of nothing.

Yeah, you got pictures from the museum, forty years after the fact, and any particular item up for sale these days may resemble one of those. Hell, I've got lots of crap hanging on my wall right now that resembles some of that stuff, on display in a museum, after being in a basement for forty years. Who was in and out of that basement during those four decades?

And why did it take forty years for any of that stuff to come up for view or a later sale?

Face it boys and girls. Mr. Houdini was a great showman. He was a great performer. He was also one of the greatest trick artists of all times.

And so was his brother, the Great Hardeen. After forty years in a basement, and you haul it out, just who did it belong to, or where did it originate?

For this particular seller, on this particular item? For something so "special" that just breaks his heart to part with, he can't even come up with a receipt or bill of sale showing he actually bought the thing at the Sidney Radner auction. Let alone a Certificate of Authenticity.

It is a nice set of leg irons. And the fellow selling them may actually believe they were owned by Houdini.

Just as perhaps, in former times, he believed in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Oh, well. Back from the days of old Methusala everyone loves the big bamboozala.

My only complaint about this sale is that it would have been more showmanlike to have it end on October 31. I think that would have pleased Mr. Houdini.

Bruce Thomson 24 Jun 2007

Wow, heres my two cents.
Any restraint belonging to Houdini is suspect unless it is
a) Gimmicked
b) the only one of its kind
c)Given by him to you personally.
Reason for a - he had gimmicked ones and used them, Hardeen kept them and used them as well.
Reason for B - he was some sort of completist when it came to this, he needed to have even the rare one of a kinds because he just had to be the first kid on the block and have bragging rights.
Reason for c - well if you are 115 years old and met him thats hard to beat!
My Bean patrolman cuffs were owned by The Great Wilcox, and I am still digging around to get more info just to make sure....
My Hiatt figure 8s were from Steve Quin via jay Leslie, which is good enough for me, but might not matter to any future buyer.

The Amazing Michael 24 Jun 2007

A good portion of my collection was owned by "The Dark Master of Escape" Steve Santini, I know that for a fact because he, himself, handed them to me in person. However, I am sure that after we are all dead and burried and my great grandchildren have split up my beloved collection, someone will say something like Bruce and Franklin said and try to de-value the cuffs. I own one genuine Houdini item; I know it belonged to him via chain of custoty. I have no "proof" that he owned it, but I know it was his......sometimes you just have to "Believe".

Cheers, Mike

jbushey 25 Jun 2007

Another two-cents worth:
I've collected Houdini for over 30 years. VERY few handcuff/leg irons can be said to have been owned by Houdini.
Hardeen is said to have bought cuffs and sold them as his brothers. Sid bought Hardeen's collection. So who knows what was Harry's, what was Hardeen's, and what was Sid's. I think they were all mixed up. Mario Carrandi bought a little more than a dozen cuffs from the 1981 auction of the Houdini household in NY. Now those I would trust came from Harry.
Other than a cuff you have with a photo of Houdini with that cuff, and some identifying mark on the cuff, you really can't be sure. The Wresch collection had some nice items, most probably Houdini's. Tanner sold that many years back. As for Sid's; it's better than most of the stuff claimed to be Harry's out there, and as close as you may get. BUT you need, as said above, a bill of sale, or COA that shows the leg iron is from the sale. Without it, no matter how closely it resembles the photo in the catalog, future sale or bought for investment, it will just not cut it. A Romer Leg is worth some $$$ on it's own, but the seller here most certainly should have some sort of proof it came from the auction; receipt, COA, a paper trail of any kind. Apparently he doesn't, so even if they are from the auction (I believe they may be) it's a tough sale. just my thoughts.

Don 25 Jun 2007

#10

I found out that the Reserve is That the reserve is $3,000.00 Three Grand. supposedly they went for $1,500.00 at the Auction.

Mark Lyons 26 Jun 2007

#11

Hi,
I have reviewed the Radner auction page and compared it to pictures that Vince, the seller has taken.
There is no question in my mind that they are one and the same. The seller states he did not buy them directly from the auction but from someone who did. It is a shame that the certificate has been misplaced, but I believe there is enough proof that they did indeed come from the Houdini-Radner Collection and Auction.
I would have no qualms about buying this item and knowing that it is right.

Right after the auction ended, I requested the prices realized printout, but they never did send it.
Does anyone have a copy that they could xerox for me. I will gladly pay for the time, materials, and postage.
Sure would appreciate it. THX

mark
O--O

Anonymous 26 Jun 2007

#12

Well, if you think that is correct, then add another item to your collection.

Mark Lyons 26 Jun 2007

#13

Wow...I am sure glad that you are here.
I just wonder why I did not consider that!
You are a complete genius!

mark
O--O

holstcollection 26 Jun 2007

#14

Mark,
I have mailed you scannings of prices realized at the Sid Radner auction. There were two Romer LI, one was sold for $1000 and the other $1500. It's impossible to tell which one of them is the one listed on eBay now.

Lars

Stan Willis 26 Jun 2007

#15

I looked at the catalog and it appears the the one on ebay is the $ 1500.00 leg iron.

holstcollection 26 Jun 2007

#16

Stan, you are right! I checked the calalogue too.
Lars

Jack.Tanis 02 Jul 2007

#17

I suppose we now know the leading item for the next Recent Auctions list.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm