OnlyCuffsOnlyCuffsarchive search
The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Need Help Identifying Leg Restraints

21 visible archived posts ยท 21 preserved total ยท topic ID 2129
Original topic โ†—Recovered images
CDW2007 04 Jul 2007
#1
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Edgeplay_Cgo 04 Jul 2007
#2
I have two similar pair, albeit somewhat more robust looking, that I picked up on eBay.

I don't know what to make of them. They certainly appear to be smith made. The loops on the bows appear to be forge welded, as does the chain. On your cuffs, some of the loops appear forge welded, the others simply bent.

I questioned the seller after the sale, and he swears on a stack of Bibles. But I'm still suspicious.

I think there is someone out there, in Pakistan or someplace, making these. The low prices they are going for is a good indication of this. I bid on them, assuming they were fakes, but of decent workmanship.

I'm reluctant to damage the cuffs by etching them or spark testing them on a grinding wheel. That could determine if they are wrought iron or steel. If they are wrought iron, they are almost certainly authentic. If they are mild steel, I'd be dubious. Wrought iron was typically the material of choice by 19C blacksmiths, but it is rare and expensive now. Steel is ubiquitous and cheap today. It was more expensive, then.

Neither your cuffs nor mine show the grain structure typical of old or rusted wrought iron.

So, my bet is on good fakes. I'd be delighted to be surprised on this.
CDW2007 04 Jul 2007
#3
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback.

When comparing wrought iron to mild steel in a grinding wheel test, what does one look for? The quantity of sparks? The color?

(I obviously don't work in a machine shop or blacksmith shop)

I will test mine if I know what I'm looking for.

If these are made of steel, they're probably fakes. In which case, I will get my $75.00 back I paid for them.

If they're wrought iron, I'll document the destructive testing and try to sell them anyway.

Do yours have the chain link looped on to the strap on the locking side? In all the photos I've looked at on the 'net, all have the chain links are linked to a metal tab with a hole in it, that is welded or forged to the outside of the loop strap.

With a chain link on the inside, it would cause considerable discomfort to the wearer. I wonder if this is an indication of a fake?
Unknown / guest 04 Jul 2007
#4
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
OOPS, the above response post is me.
Franklin 04 Jul 2007
#5
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Hi CDW2007:

I've been collecting antique leg irons and related restraints for quite a while, and Dennis is correct about the wrought iron vs. modern steel distinction. That's the easiest and quickest way to spot the fakes, once you know what true wrought iron is.

The terminology can get confusing, since the same words have been used in different contexts at different times over the years. Basically, there are three grades of iron: (1) low carbon content, around 0.5% or less, (2) medium carbon content, around 1% to 1.5%, and (3) high carbon content, 2% or more. Until the late 19th century, #1 was called iron, and is quite malleable. #2 was called steel, and was much harder, although less malleable. #3 didn't have a specific name (other than perhaps crap) since it was brittle, not malleable, and was virtually useless, other than for ballast.

From ancient times until 1800, iron was smelted using charcoal as the fuel to heat the iron ore and burn off the impurities. However, the fire was not hot enough to melt the iron into a liquid; it only came up to a semi-molten plastic state. As the impurities were burned off, they left air pockets in the lump of iron, which was called a bloom. The result was somewhite like a loaf of bread, filled with air pockets. To get rid of these, the bloom was then wrought; that is, hammered. After it was flattened out, they'd fold it in half, hammer away some more, fold it in half again, hammer some more and so on.

The result was to create the two distinctive features of wrought iron. First, it has a texture, resulting from the flattened out air pockets. Second, it has a grain (like wood) resulting from the repeated folding and flattening.

Around 1800, starting in England, iron began to be smelted using the puddling process, which used coke as the fuel source. With the hotter fire produced by coke, the iron ore was brought to a thick, liquid state and then stirred to collect the refined iron into a mass called a puddle. However, the iron still had air pockets in it due to the stirring, like making meringue by beating egg whites. So, they still had to "wrought" the iron to get rid of those. In contrast to charcoal iron, puddled iron has a finer texture and grain (more like bamboo rather than wood).

By 1870 or so, iron was thereafter smelted using the Bessemer (blast furnace) or open hearth process by which the iron ore was brought to a full liquid stage and then poured into molds. And that's when the terminology got all screwed up.

Wrought iron actually describes a process for smelting iron; it has nothing to do with carbon content and hence the grade of iron. The genuine wrought iron items you see usually have a low carbon content simply because only the low carbon content variety of iron (#1) is malleable. However, beginning in the late 19th century, manufacturers began to call low carbon iron (#1) wrought iron, medium carbon iron (#2) steel and high carbon iron (#3) cast iron, which is truly nonsensical since all iron today starts out life by being melted and cast into molds. Today, #1 is often called mild steel. However, there are no formal standards and manufacturers can call their products anything they want. For example, at home centers, you see "wrought iron" lawn furniture, which is a crock since it's actually cast iron with a high carbon content (#3).

Genuine wrought iron has some positive qualities that modern iron does not. Because of the grain it has, resulting from the folding and hammering, it has a springy quality and is much easier for a blacksmith to work than the modern stuff which has no similar grain; the modern stuff tends to crack when you bend it. For this reason, you'll see some late 19th/early 20th century iron objects marked "genuine wrought" or "warranted wrought" (such as British darby handcuffs). Hey, why mark it genuine or warranted unless there was a fake variety out there, namely the low carbon (#1) type made with the Bessemer process that does not have a grain since its poured into molds rather than repeatedly hammered and folded. And that's why true wrought iron disappeared; the labor and fuel to make it was significantly greater and it was much more expensive.

So, how do you tell if your shackles are wrought iron and hence presumably genuine? The spark test indicates the amount (number of sparks) and type (color of sparks) of elements other than iron that are present, usually carbon. If the sparks show modern alloy steel, then you know you've got a fake. However, the sparks from wrought iron and modern mild steel and the way they branch out can be so close (depending upon the relative carbon content) to be almost indistinguishable. Accordingly, the only way to tell is to actually look at the iron itself to see if it has the grain and texture unique to wrought iron.

Unfortunately, trying to describe that grain and texture in words is like trying to describe the color red to a blind person. The photo you posted is just not clear and detailed enough to see this feature. Yes, there is pitting of the metal, but that's probably due to rusting, and has no relation to the actual texture of the metal.

From your photo, the color of the patina suggests modern iron. Charcoal smelted wrought iron typically has an almost black patina, while puddled wrought iron has a dark brown patina. Your shackles are more medium/light brown, indicating modern iron; however, that may be the result of the lighting when the photo was taken

The fact your fetters do not have the chain connected to the locking shackle is not determinitive either. I've got several examples of both types, and the unconnected chain type makes it easier to operate the puzzle lock shackle.

On the locking shackle, look at how the lock tube is fastened to the collar. The collar is very narrow and it seems the tube is either pinned or pressure fitted and peened in place, which suggests modern manufacture. Typically, the collar is an inch or so wide and the tube is brazed into place. However, since all of these old fetters were hand made, some enterprising blacksmith may have used a different method.

From what I can see, the thing that shouts "fake" is the connecting chain. People today all too often do not appreciate that those old blacksmiths were highly skilled artisans. All they think about is somebody beating out a horseshoe with no tools other than a hammer and anvil. In fact, those old guys had a wide variety of tools (just like a cabinetmaker has more than a hammer and saw) and were quite adept in their use and were very practical people. Making chain links that are uniform in size is rather easy and fast, provided you have the correct tools and know the process. Drilling out two holes in a flat piece of iron would be much more time consuming. The guy has already made two chain links, so making a third would be a snap. But, having that rustic flat piece of iron in the middle makes them look crude and therefore an easier sell to a gullible buyer.

To me, the final straw is that there seem to be too many of these things (all with that flat piece of iron in the middle of the chain) floating around out there. Of the three or so I've actually been able to handle, every one was made of modern iron and not pre-20th century wrought iron. I've never seen a genuine set with a flat piece of iron instead of a chain link of some sort. And I have no recollection of how many I've seen on eBay over the years. Genuine antique fetters are very scarce and each set has unique qualities. There are just too many of this design out there for them to all be authentic.

Edgeplay_Cgo 05 Jul 2007
#6
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
If you apply wrought iron to the grinding wheel, the sparks are long with heavy heads. Mild steel sparks are lighter with a few feathers or branches from the carbon. High carbon steel has many feathers. You can see mild and high carbon steel examples by applying a nail and a file to the grinding wheel, respectively.

Drilling out two holes in a flat piece of iron would be much more time consuming.

The plate caught my eye, too. But holes are readily made by punching. Stuff of that weight would simply be heated and a punch driven through. It was the standard method of making holes.

If you've seen numerous examples with the flat plate, then that starts shouting "fake" to me.


CDW2007 05 Jul 2007
#7
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Franklin,

Thank you for the informative post.

The photo was lightened to be able to see detail better, thus destroying the actual patina look.

The patina is mostly dark brown, but there are some spots that are light to medium brown. The strap has diagonal grooves in it. Each groove is approx. .04" wide and .04" deep. The light brown rust in the bottom of the grooves scratches off easily into a powder.

The holes in the flat plate link are punched. What gets me is the number and locations of worn spots. It appears (or was made to appear) that the links are of harder material than the other parts, like the link and the strap. The wear is exactly where wear would be if the shackles were on someone's ankles and tried to walk in them. The worn spots (in punched holes and strap hole) are exactly where they should be when the shackles are in tension. The links fall right into 'grooves'. The chain links are mostly round but one end has been flattened on both sides of that one end.

Dennis:
I will run some tests, on the grinder, on modern mild steel, modern high carbon steel and a known piece of iron made circa 1775. I'll get familiar with the spark and color.
Franklin 06 Jul 2007
#8
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Hmmmm.

I may change my initial reaction, with the added facts of the color of the patina and the wear patterns you have described.

The one thing that I'm rather interested in is how the lock works.

That may perhaps flush something out of the woodpile.
anonymince 06 Jul 2007
#9
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
all that hot air wasted. as usual.
CDW2007 06 Jul 2007
#10
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Franklin,

No key came with the shackles.

The lock mechanism has a round (or rounded from wear), threaded shaft approx. .25" in dia. inside a tube.

The tube has a hole (worn in two spots, almost opposite each other) in one end plate for the key. I figure one wear spot was from locking, the other from unlocking.

There is a corroded wire coil compression spring almost as large as the I.D. of the tube. The spring wire is approx. .050" - .060" in dia. The coils are not evenly spaced. The O.D. of the coils is not consistent.

The key end of the threaded shaft is round (or rounded). I have read this type of mechanism had square ends for the square key to fit over. It may be the corners have worn off from use, thus rendering the shackles useless.

There is a plate, probably threaded for the shaft, inside the tube about 3/4 the way from the key end of the tube. There is a slot (chiseled?) into the tube where the plate was inserted. The tube is crimped on either side of the plate, opposite the slot, to hold the plate in place. The plate was then swaged in place around the slot.

There is a hole in the flattened end of the ankle bracelet thru which the other end of the threaded shaft passes. When the threaded shaft is unscrewed, this end disengages from the ankle bracelet and the bracelet swings out of the locking mechanism.

Thank you for your help. This is the first time I have ever bought anything like this. I really don't know what I have. If it's a fake, I paid too much. If it's real, I paid too little.



Don 10 Jul 2007
#11
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
here goes something Similar are these Real or are They Reproductions. http://cgi.ebay.com/MID-18TH-CENTURY-SL ... otohosting
Edgeplay_Cgo 10 Jul 2007
#12
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
I saw those, too. The photography is crappy, but the bows and chain look blacksmith forged, particularly the loops on the bows. The lock case looks like those twenty buck Darby knockoffs.

I'm convinced they're made in India or Pakistan, and they are hand forging some of the components.

I actually believe they're responding to some of our comments. Impresive. And scary.
CDW2007 10 Jul 2007
#13
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
I was turned down by a well known lab today. I had requested information on how much it would cost to have the restraint's metal analyzed for grain and dating the iron used to make the shackles.

I sent them a photo and what I knew of the shackles.

They referred me to an archaeological department of my state's gov't and a university.

Maybe these folks get bothered a lot by what turns out to be fakes.

Dorson 11 Jul 2007
#14
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Hello,
Having been trained as Mech Engr and spent time in the metalurgy lab and know what it takes to do the tests that you request will run into the $100 to do. Far more than what the cuffs may be worth and the testing can be somewhat destructive in nature. There are other ways such as comparing them to other known cuffs, examining the overall construction, how the metal was formed. Probably more detailed pictures posted on this forum might help since there are many people here that have some experience and collectively, probably your best bet.

-Dorson
LK 11 Jul 2007
#15
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
you said the plate has diagonal grooves, look closer at them, are they rendem or a pattern, could they have been cut to ID. a certain slave, you have to remember most people back then could not read or write and would X their name!
CDW2007 11 Jul 2007
#16
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Thank you all for you generous responses on this thread.

Dorson: I realise the cost of verifying may exceed the worth, but I'm testing the character and integrity of the dealer for a near future purchase that's in the thousands (not handcuffs/restraints). I want to know if he's reliable and if I have the ability to obtain valid info on my own.

I showed these slave restraints to a blacksmith yesterday, who deals with metal objects from that era (early - mid 1800's) and he said the restrainst were definitely hand made by a blacksmith using old techniques. He said the iron looked like old puddled iron.

You are correct, the photo posted is not that good. The table top is too light. It needs a different background. I will take higher resolution photos of the restraint and post them.

I asked the blacksmith if he had a scrap of old iron that could be grinder tested and he said "No". He keeps everything. (He had what was left of an artillery carriage from the 1860's in his shop, but nothing he could part with)

LK: I asked the blacksmith about the diagonal groove pattern, if it had anything to do with stress reliving the metal before it was bent, and he said no, it was a decorative pattern probably made with a chisel. It could be it was used for identification (my comment).

The pursuit of the truth continues. I'm still not satisfied. I found a small plantation museum in Virginia that has a set of these restraints, similiar in appearance and function. Might have to go have a look at them.
LK 11 Jul 2007
#17
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
a while back i aquired a pair of frogatt's and wanted to clean them up, i shot canned air into them and lent ball's came out, sort of greenish/gray in color looked to me to be wool from the type of clothing worn 100 plus years ago it would probably also be costly to have something like this analized, but it was good enough proof to me that thay were old!
CDW2007 13 Jul 2007
#18
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
Here's another photo of the shackles.
LK 14 Jul 2007
#19
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
to me from your most recent photo's i don't think the metal could get in that condition AFTER being forged,if they were done recently, it would that a long time to rust like that,SO THEY MUST BE OLD!
LK 15 Jul 2007
#20
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
PLEASE DON'T SPARK TEST THESE, IF THEY ARE FAKE YOU'VE LOST NOTHING BUT IF THEY ARE REAL YOU'VE DEFACED A PIECE OF ART!
CDW2007 15 Jul 2007
#21
(First Post Here):

I purchased a pair of leg restraints from an antique dealer in Ohio earlier this year.

I was told they were real and from the 1820 - 1850 era. They also were to have come from either Virginia or Georgia. (I'm aware there are a bunch of fakes out there)

I have shown them to two different curators at two different museums.

Both curators said there was nothing about these shackles to indicate they were not real. They said they didn't have the usual fake give-aways, like modern welding and grind marks.

I would like to positively I.D. these. Are there experts in old metallurgy that could analyze a small sample and identify the authenticity of the metal used?

Or are there experts who could look these over and tell if they are fakes?

Any comments on these?

Click to expand...
LK,
I've decided not to spark test. Thank you, appreciate your concern.
I'm not a 'cuff collector, but feel fortunate to have found this forum.