The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Michael Lee / Consultant in Death of Girl.

19 visible archived posts · 19 preserved total · topic ID 2258

Michael Lee 01 Oct 2007

Hello All

I have been contacted by NYPD regarding a girl here in NY who was found dead in a Holding cell with a pair of Cuffs lodged around her neck, thus killing her by suffociation ...very sad

A number of years ago I did a segment in my show where I demonstranted for an audiance that it was indeed possible to bring your hands not only down under your butt & 'step thru' this bringing your hands to ther front ....
But that it is also possible to bring the hands up & over the head, which involves a back breaking manover of tucking one arm inside the other...Very painful... But it can be done !
I feel this is what she attempted to do but may have panicked .

If anyone of the HC.O viewers have any thoughts/info on this matter it would be most appreciated.

Michael

Annon but tasteful 01 Oct 2007

Obviously there are no lengths to which the "amazing" Michael Lee will not go to capture attention or try and convince people ANYWHERE that he is a "somebody".

Anyone with half a brain would instantly know that the Police would in no way consult a trickster or magician in such a matter but would instead be speaking to doctors and coronors.

Sad behavior.

Very sad indeed Mr.Lee.

Annon 01 Oct 2007

The Police would never consult a trickster in such a matter. They would consult doctors and coronors. My prayers go out the family of the victim and I hope they never see this discussion thread.

Horst Baden 01 Oct 2007

We need details on the kinds of cuffs, how she was cuffed and whether there were other circumstances like a waist chain or tether or hogtie, etc. Until then, speculation is wild and irresponsible.

Stuart Burrell 01 Oct 2007

Hi Michael

I hope you do not mind this question.

You said...

"I have been contacted by NYPD regarding a girl here in NY who was found dead in a Holding cell with a pair of Cuffs lodged around her neck, thus killing her by suffociation ...very sad"

...Did the young woman in question die in New York? Your post seems to suggest that she did.

I only ask as there was a report on Fox News of a New York resident, a woman, found dead in a cell in Arizona.

(http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298638,00.html)

The cause of death was cited as similar to the one you described in your opening post and the poor woman came from New York, hence my confusion.

If there has been another tragic event then could you please provide a link to the press report as it would aid us in helping you.

Also the Maricopa County Medical Examiner is investigating, no doubt they will be able to shed more light on how the poor woman in Arizona died and then the NYPD will be able to compare.

http://www.maricopa.gov/medex/

Kevin Connolly 01 Oct 2007

No, but she was married into a NY big wig family. They held a press conference in NYC. They have a lot of political pull.

Edgeplay_Cgo 01 Oct 2007

Michael:

Don't mind the naysayers. It's a coup, albeit a grisly one.

I know it is possible to work the handcuffs over your butt and do a step through. I could do that before my butt got too big. I can envision the over the head routine, but it hurts just thinking about it. If you can or have done that, you'll have a good idea of how the movements work and what position the arms may get stuck in. If not, you may need to hire one. If you have someone who can do that, a demonstration, and a video thereof, may be of value to the investigation. A two or three camera shoot might pay off, here.

Comparing the known movements to the death scene photographs may provide some valuable insight.

I have a f(r)iend who may be valuable to the investigation. He is not an escapologist but is a court-recognized expert in a related field. If you e-mail me, and with his permission, I can put you in touch.

There can be some decent money and good fun in the Expert Witness trade, if you don't mind the travel and if the cases don't squick you.

Remember, it's your time and your expertise that is for sale, (if indeed you're charging anything and it's none of my business if you are) not your opinion. You are a professional and an expert in your field. (It says so, right there on your card. ) Your opinion is what it is. I know, it's semantics, and somebody's lawyer will explain that in greater detail before you offer an expert opinion, but it's important to be square with the concept before you start. Your credibility is a big part of what you're selling.

Bruce Thomson 02 Oct 2007

Uhm, if they actualy hired "Michael" or not, the big nagging question I have based on the news item is why was this subject left by herself and not being watched directly?
Everyone we arrest, no matter the gender, is monitored without let up. This is an enormous drain on staff, but it helps prevent accidentaldeath/suicide.

Dorson Foster 02 Oct 2007

I have read the public accounts of what happened and having a hard time imagining what happened. Not that I am crazy about seeing pictures of dead people, but I can be objective when need be. With so many details left out such as body type, and how she was cuffed does make one wonder what happened. And the begging question is why did they leave her alone and failed to monitor her. Apparently I am gather this woman was a bit hysterical and they might have thought she would cool off till they figured what to do with her. I too also know of someone with the medical and legal background that can be an expert witness than those that have been named.

-Dorson

Horst Baden 02 Oct 2007

#10

If the media are correctly reporting this, the only thing that I have been able to ascertain is that she was locked to a bench inside the holding cell. Perhaps another chain was involved? Maybe a foot or so in length?

Patches 02 Oct 2007

#11

I think the Family will be owning half the State of Arizona in the end

Michael Lee 02 Oct 2007

#12

This is the Info I have been prevy to after more than an hour with detectives yesterday & the viewing of Photos:

She was connected to a thther approx 12-16' in lenght
She was disdraugth ? at having missed a connecting flight.
She became unruly & had smashed a cell on the concourse at the Airport where she was arrested. she may have been drinking.

This Ques is for Ann......If you are such an authority into these matters than why do you not want to reveal your true idenity ? Very suspicious to say the least.

I Michael Lee , have been a professional Escape artist , Performer & Collector for more than 20 years,
I have performed around the World, I have performed for the Pres of the United States....Need I go On... This is not the firist time I have been asked to help the police , Which I do willingly.. offering any knowledge & Info I have ... freely !.

Ann.....What have you done to help your fellowman / woman lately??
Do yourself a favor & Spew your venon elsewhere...maybe on U tube .

Michael Lee
www.michaelleemagic.com

Michael Lee 02 Oct 2007

#13

Correct spelling of the ill opinionated

Annon

M L

Annon 02 Oct 2007

#14

All of the info you just mentioned has been reported by media. It is public knowledge. Not the privy of detectives only. Care to mention the names of the detectives you met with, or precinct they work out of?

Edgeplay_Cgo 02 Oct 2007

#15

Don't feed the trolls. Any fool can ask more questions in a minute than a wise man can answer in a week. Don't let the gobshites get you dowm.

As to why an escape artist might make a valuable expert witness, he may be familiar with the workings of restraints and some of the body moves that are possible and/or likely.

This is pobably an unsuitable venue for discussing the details of an active investigation.

Binder & Binder 02 Oct 2007

#16

This is hokey crap! If you were really requested to give your opinion on a case, you would not be permitted to talk about the case until the trial was over. Posting opinions on an open forum like this one, regarding a current undecided case, puts you at risk for suit. I don't believe you, get your own attention by looking at yourself handcuffed in a mirror.

Law-at-el

Anonymous 03 Oct 2007

#17

Gotta agree with Binder.

Horst Baden 03 Oct 2007

#18

"Officers handcuffed Gotbaum behind her back, shackled her to a bench and left her alone in a detention room. Police said she was later found unconscious and not breathing with the chain from the shackle pulled against the front of her neck. It appeared that Gotbaum got tangled as she tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, police said."

The length of chain and the amount of supervision will come into question. A sufficiently shortened chain would have precluded her from any such maneuvering.

Anonymous 03 Oct 2007

#19

WHAT TRIAL duaaah