Houdini Tower Lyon(?) Thumbcuffs

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

The pair you are asking about I personally saw many times in a display case at the now defunct Houdini Magical Hall of Fame that used to be in Niaraga Falls, Canada (It was mostly destroyed by a fire many years ago).

The problem with verifying the provenance of any cuffs/irons Houdini was said to have owned/used is that unless they are of a particular design that was singular to Houdini or his work, i.e. Mirror cuff, French Letter cuff, Houdini Seance cuffs, etc they could have belonged to anyone ranging from Houdini's brother Hardeen or even Sid Radner who himself did escapes as younger man.

Just because a number of cuffs end up in the Hardeen collection and these then go to Sid Radner and eventually to auction this chain of custody in no way at all verfiys that any of them werre used let along handled by Houdini himself.

A case in point can be seen with cuffs such as Strauss and Harvard restraints both of which have been offered in auctions containing items from the same collection.

Although said to have been owned and used by Houdini such styles of irons were patented and manufactured AFTER his death!

I have seen this sort of thing happen a million times where prominent collections of important historical objects are to be auctioned.

Just because the owner of the collection has a "name" that is connected to the sale and that same name is recognized in the collecting community and just because the collection in question does have some legit items in it that can be positively linked to an important historical figure or event the rest of the items that have a tenuous connection "suddenly" have the gold aura around them and become beyond reproach when they should not be.

Were thumbcuffs like these used in Houdini's day?

Yes.

Is there any period photos showing him manacled in a pair like these?

Not to my knowledge.

Is it likely that in his day Houdini did in fact escape from of use a set of thumbcuffs of this make and model?

Rather likely.

Can anyone on the planet provide proof positive that this was the exact pair owned and used by Houdini?

No.

As with most rare and desireable historical collectibles it all comes down to just what any particular collector is willing to believe and be happy with where the "provenance" of any alleged object is concerned.

This and this alone often seems to dictate the value and prices paid.

Steve Santini

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

I would consider a good condition pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs (with no link to Houdini) should fetch approx $1500.00

I have seen them go in around that price before.

While the "Houdini" pair on offer do seem to have good plating and overall surface condition there appears to be a key bit broken off and stuck in the keyway. (Hopefully my eyes are seeing this right).

Were these to sell on Ebay as just a regular set of TL thumbcuffs the broken key would certainly affect the price to some degree.

I hope this, and the message I posted above, have helped to give you a good idea of both what you are looking at and also if in fact it can be stated proof positive that these ever belonged to Houdini.

TL thumbcuffs are rather rare and as such are a very nice restraint to have in one's collection.

However, if you are looking for a bona fide Houdini item that is beyond question something owned and/or used by him in his escapes you may have to look a little further.

Steve Santini

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

you did ok & probaly can retreve your investment,if you need a key try

http://www.cannonsgreatescapes.net/handcuff_keys.html

i don't see it listed but it is a simple flat key and i bet cannons can make you one ( good buy ), and good luck

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

Dear NJ,

Guernsey's ought be able to provide you with a copy of the 1999 Butterfield's auction catalogue page. If Guernsey's can't or won't, try Butterfield's directly, or try eBay itself, as eBay has a proprietary interest in Butterfield's.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

NJ,
I have the 1999 Butterfield & Buttferfield, Houdini Magical Hall of Fame auction catalog. Your thumbcuff's appear to be identical to lot number 443 "Houdini Thumb Cuffs" displayed on page 59 of the catalog. The catalog photograph is black and white, but does not appear to show the surface rust seen in your photo. It is very possible the rust developed since 1999 though....

-Wayne

http://www.pinballhistory.com
http://www.pinballmuseum.com

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

I saw these very same thumbcuffs many times in person at the HMHOF in Niagara Falls.

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

Hi,
I almost bid on these at the Butterfield auction.
But, the keyhole had a broken key in it. It was clearly
visible in the photos. This is the same pair. Provenance
of many items in that auction was doubtful. For example,
several cuffs had COA with them as belonging to Houdini,
but were removed since they were patented after Houdini's death.
I think Sid got mixed up as to what was his, Hardeen's, and
Houdini's. John Bushey

As for value, the last few pair of Tower Lyon Thumbcuffs have
sold for between $550 and $800 on ebay. Another two pair off
ebay I know of sold for $750-$900. With Houdini papers you
did well. I'd reccommend putting the trouble in to have the broken key removed, but keep the piece broken off. Ian McColl
of Australia may be able to do it, or possibly myself.
Others may disagree with taking it out, but a working cuff
is usually worth more then a non-working cuff. Keep the piece
to show it's the same thumbcuff. Get papers with the TC.

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

I saw these very same thumbcuffs many, many times in person at the HMHOF in Niagara Falls.

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

Click to expand...

I'd like to thank you all very much for all the very useful information and insight! All told it does seem that even independent of previous ownership, a worst case scenario does not leave me with a disastrous lesson to learn.

Mr. Santini,
Thank you very much for your immeasurably useful background on these cuffs in particular, it is reassuring to know of their history. While nearly all provenance dating back to this era requires a leap of faith, it is nice to know it is at least possible and plausible that these could have once been Houdini's. The retail valuation for a pair in good condition is also appreciated as a context to measure the premium (or lack thereof) I paid for their history.

Anonymous,
I will very likely get in touch with cannonsgreatescapes.net to see if they can help. As luck would have it, they're located just a stone's throw from me, so the tip is much appreciated!

Mr. Tanis & Mr. Namerow,
The sale history of the cuffs is definitely invaluable, and it makes for much more manageable work in establishing what has happened with the cuffs after they left what I understand to be Mr. Radner's collection. I will certainly hope to get a copy of the catalog and/or sale results from the Butterfield sale.

Mr. Bushey,
Thank you for very much for your thoughts on the cuffs, and as it seems, whether they were Houdini's, Hardeen's or Mr. Radner's, I certainly could have done worse! A one in three chance of them being Houdini's at what seems to be a reasonably acceptable premium on the value of the cuff alone is certainly nothing to be terribly dissatisfied with. The recent sales history is a big help and it's definitely reassuring to see the possible downside isn't as bad as I had feared. I will definitely be considering the removal of the broken key, as there is certainly merit to either side of the decision. Out of curiosity, what would a service of that nature generally be priced at?

Again, thank you all very much, I am certainly quite relieved to know my predicament isn't quite as dire as it seemed it might have been. If anyone would like to forward a paypal or mailing address, I would be more than happy to send something out in graditude for your generous assistance. My email is noted in the poster id link.

In an attempt to research (unfortunately after the fact) a poorly reasoned bid on the recent Pugilese collection auction of what appears to be a pair of Tower Lyon thumbcuffs billed to be owned by Houdini, I came across this forum.

I was hoping to get some insight on these cuffs and would greatly appreciate any help that could be offered on this item:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Houdin ... enameZWDVW

I would be more than happy to pay for any advice or answers that would help me get an idea of what exactly I may (or may not have) purchased.

1. Are these Tower Lyon thumbcuffs, and if so, what value might they have separate from the possibility of being owned by Houdini? I have not yet paid and as such I cannot say what state they are in, though I would assume they are without key and do not function.

2. The sale history states they were purchased from the Butterfield & Butterfield November 1999 auction, does anyone happen to have any knowledge of this sale (or this lot in particular) or perhaps have access to a catalog from the event?

3. What possible way (if any) could ownership by Houdini be established? And if this were indeed possible, what potential impact could this have on an estimated valuation?

Though I realize I made the cardinal mistake of placing a bid without first researching, I would very much appreciate any assistance, as I have no idea how much of a hole I may have dug myself into. The fact there were no other bidders on the lot, coupled with it selling for 50% of the low pre-auction estimate, has definitely propped up the notion that I have gotten in well over my head on this.

Thank you all very much for your time and I will definitely look forward to getting a better idea of what my predicament is.

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Well, it sounds like you are happy, which makes it a good buy.
Do you intend to display it, or will it sit in a drawer?
I am thinking of making a display case for my Bean patrolman cuffs once owned by the Great Wilcox (1910s and onward)along with some paper material on him.