Anonymous
#1The Forum at Handcuffs.Org
Surprised to see cuffs like this still in use
21 visible archived posts · 21 preserved total · topic ID 2538
Mikeintightpants
#2You say you're surprised to see the cuffs STILL in use, but you shouldn't be - I'm surprised to see them used under those circumstanses where the woman is still in police custody (evidenced by the uniformed female officer to whom she's cuffed.) The fact of the matter is that Chubb Escort cuffs are still widely used by the Prison Service in England and Wales when transporting/escorting prisoners - however I wasn't aware that they are used by any of the police forces at any time. Individuals in police custody will normally be in Hiatt Speedcuffs - or they will be in the care of one of the security organiatons who nomally use Hiatt standard chain cuffs (2010's) or exceptionally Chubb Arrest cuffs when being transferred to/from Court or between prison facilities - BUT I've never before seen Chubb Escorts used by a uniformed police officer.
Perhaps one of our members from Yorkshire can throw some light on this?
Coincidentally, in the UK press this weekend, there was one of those all-time classic pics of Mick Jagger back in 1967 looking very smart in a pair of Chubb Escorts after being arrested on drugs charges, but at that time he was in the care of the Prison Service, not the police.
MikeR
a.k.a. Mikeintightpants
Birmingham, England
Perhaps one of our members from Yorkshire can throw some light on this?
Coincidentally, in the UK press this weekend, there was one of those all-time classic pics of Mick Jagger back in 1967 looking very smart in a pair of Chubb Escorts after being arrested on drugs charges, but at that time he was in the care of the Prison Service, not the police.
MikeR
a.k.a. Mikeintightpants
Birmingham, England
weaseldandaw
#3They also still use them when deporting people from the U.K.
Anonymous
#4That was 1967.
Nobody gets deported from England these days.
Anonymous
#5"BUT I've never before seen Chubb Escorts used by a uniformed police officer." Hence, my surprise. (-;
weaseldandaw
#6I work at a U.K. airport & when they deport illegal immigrants they sometimes use Chubb Escorts, but these are usually non uniformed immigration officers.
I cant remember seeing uniformed officers using these sort of cuffs.
Anonymous
#7Dan, tell me you're not in T5. (-:
weaseldandaw
#8I have just got off the phone to the Desk Sergeant in the Karen Matthews case.
I said it was unusual to see a uniformed officer using Chubb Escorts & asked if this was usual for the West Yorkshire police to use these cuffs instead of Speedcuffs.
He said that they usually use Speedcuffs, but they used Chubb Escorts as she was only under escort at the time.
Unknown / guest
#9No I am not at T5... luckily!
Anonymous
#10Aside from the cuffs, I would love to know the difference between being "under escort" and being "under arrest."
weaseldandaw
#11My thoughts exactly!
Patches
#12Ummmmm select Politicians go "under Escorts"
weaseldandaw
#13I have my thoughts on this....... but not online!!!!
Unknown / guest
#14My last post was in response to Anonymous, not to Patches!!!
Anonymous
#15Well, Dan, Patches has a point.
Mikeintightpants
#16"Posted by Dan - April 8 2008, 12:05 PM
I have just got off the phone to the Desk Sergeant in the Karen Matthews case.I said it was unusual to see a uniformed officer using Chubb Escorts & asked if this was usual for the West Yorkshire police to use these cuffs instead of Speedcuffs.He said that they usually use Speedcuffs, but they used Chubb Escorts as she was only under escort at the time."
Hi Dan - first of all you were really lucky to get through to the Desk Sergeant in that case where there are currently around 60 officers working on the case all round the clock! I'm just wondering whether you in fact spoke to somebody who hadn't got a clue what he was talking about and just wanted to get you off to the end of the phone!
The fact of the matter is that (depending where you buy 'em) Speedcuffs cost around twenty quid, Chubb "Escorts" three hundred! Whilst I'm not clear either as to the distinction between "only" under escort or one possible alternative of being under arrest, it beggars belief that a responsible police officer could make the comment that he did.
IF West Yorks cops have "Escorts" available (and the photo shows they have), the officer's "explanation" would seem to me to fall far short of reality. In my opinion the "Desk Sergeant's" comment does not explain what at present remains an anomoly as far as I'm concerned. (Current photos show the woman cuffed in front with Hiatt 2010's and attached to a security officer with a second pair of 2010's).
On a practical point, women's hands/wrists tend to be smaller than men's and although Chubb produce detachable inserts to reduce the internal size of the bracelets, there's no indication that they were in use on that occasion. So either the woman has large hands or West Yorks were risking losing their prisoner!
MikeR
a.k.a. Mikeintightpants
Birmingham, England
weaseldandaw
#17Hi Mike,
I must admit that I came off the phone wondering if I had just been palmed off, but if that was the case, then why wasn't I just told that they could not discuss the case!
As you will well know, standard cuffs are not meant to be used as a permenant detention, just a means of restraint whilst transporting a person (I use the term person as opposed to prisoner as a person is presumed innocent until proved guilty) from A to B.
What is the difference between transporting & escorting?
Standard cuffs like 2010's are used for convienience as they are keyed alike so any officer can open them. Chubb Escorts are all keyed different!!!
Obviously, when you are "escorting" a person to or from court or between prisons, there is a need to make sure that they cant be "sprung" by anyone who has a standard handcuff key!!!
I can only speculate as to why Chubbs were used in this case.
Unknown / guest
#18Sorry Mike, logged on last post as Anonymous by mistake.
Mikeintightpants
#19Don't worry Dan, I've made the same mistake myself on occasions.
We'll probabaly never know the anwer to this one as to why the police were using "Escorts" on that occasion - but you never know, somebody might come up with an answer one day?
And as for the security guard cuffed to the prisoner in subsequent newspaper pics, have you noticed how, for a long time now, those guards have been wearing rather stupid-looking black velcro wrist bands - must be something to do with the crazy Health and Safety regulations we have in the UK nowadays!
So far as Chubb Escorts are concerned - of the 5 pairs in my collection, 2 pairs are keyed the same and the other pairs are all keyed differently.
Anonymous
#20"And as for the security guard cuffed to the prisoner in subsequent newspaper pics, have you noticed how, for a long time now, those guards have been wearing rather stupid-looking black velcro wrist bands - must be something to do with the crazy Health and Safety regulations we have in the UK nowadays!"
Ya' know, though, if elf n safedee had a clue, they would put a stop to police/bailiffs cuffing themselves to prisoners. I could strangle or break the arm - whichever comes first - of anyone who escorted me that way. Can't they spring for waist chains?
Dr. Deport
#21Deportation?weaseldandaw wrote: ↑Apr 08, 2008I work at a U.K. airport & when they deport illegal immigrants they sometimes use Chubb Escorts, but these are usually non uniformed immigration officers.
Scroll down to main picture. Chubbs?
I cant remember seeing uniformed officers using these sort of cuffs.