The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

This one takes the cake!

47 visible archived posts · 47 preserved total · topic ID 2696

The Amazing Michael 23 Aug 2008

Take a look at these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ankle-Shakels-Circ- ... 286.c0.m14

They don't even have hinges!!! I guess you pull them open by force??? LOL! The locks are Eastern Indian junk that has been horribly rusted on purpose, and get a load of the circa~1800's electricly welded chain! Yup, Billy the Kid probably did wear these! At this writing, there is 10 bids on them and the bidding is over $160.00! The seller should be kicked off eBay forever!!!!!! Sorry, these just kind of hit a nerve with me and I thought I should share them with the handcuff collecting community.

Cheers, Mike

Cindi 23 Aug 2008

He wore them?! Nahhhhhh I remember seeing them on Johnny Cash!

C

J.Kuczero 23 Aug 2008

Johnny Cash just handled them while he was visiting McAlestor.

Cindi 23 Aug 2008

Nah Nah Nah, those are the Exhaust clamps that fell off Johnny's car when he left there!

C

J.Kuczero 23 Aug 2008

when you've got your car one piece at a time. Those darn adapter kits just don't hold up well!!! That's probably what he needed the cheap rusty padlocks for, trying to keep it from falling off.

Cindi 24 Aug 2008

and they even threw in part of the Towing chain!

atlanta*casting 24 Aug 2008

I emailed the seller about the age of the item and the reply
seemed like cryptic babel.

wait till the lucky buyer finds out they don't even have hinges.

Talk about "goin on the cheap" ...

Dorson 24 Aug 2008

Those are the special ones with the invisible hinges, I hear only the best metal workers knew how to do it and only passed it on to someone they trusted.

Cindi 24 Aug 2008

Yes now I remember reading about them. They are the famouse Manacles from the Tower of Cryptic Babel!

Cindi 24 Aug 2008

#10

Opppps "famous" No Mouse please

Ron Spitz 24 Aug 2008

#11

Years ago there was a listing on eBay for USED FLASH PAPER. Those of you into magic know what that is. There were several bid and I always wondered what the wining bidder received.

One day in an antique shop I found a pair of handcuffs and asked the dealer if he knew anything about them. He replied "what do you want the hear" and we both had a good laugh.

There is always someone out there that will buy just about anything.

Ron

The Amazing Michael 24 Aug 2008

#12

"USED FLASH PAPER".....now THAT is FUNNY!!!! LOL!!!! I am going to sell my "air guitar collection" on eBay. =P

Cheers, Mike

Cindi 25 Aug 2008

#13

Hey Mike
You'll probably get some "Air Head" to buy it

C

No Name 25 Aug 2008

#14

Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!
http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBa ... 10690&rd=1

Michael Lee 25 Aug 2008

#15

This REALLY SUCKS !!!!!

I have taken the liberty of contacting Ebay and basicly explaning what a Scum bag/Con Person the seller is & that he is simply Ripping off customers.

Common guys you have to feel a little bad for the poor buyer - Postyman81

Who really has no Idea what he has purchased.

ML

Tom R 25 Aug 2008

#16

Hey dumb ass have you ever heard of lever locks? Don't know if the chain is orignal, it might not be. But if you knew anything about locks you'd know that lever locks were used during that time period. Some time back I had a pair that was not exactly the same but simular. I took them to Heritage in Dallas Texas and they authenicated them for me. And yes DUMB ASS the metal was not cast but forged and they did pull them apart to put them on. Usuall they had a tool that they would use. They were not manifactured but made by hand by blacksmiths. So before you go and shoot off your big mouth about something you don't know anything about you might try to do a little research. I hope that the person that sold them sues you for slander.
Tom R.

atlanta*casting 25 Aug 2008

#17

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dl ... &category0=

isn't it kinda strange that these type of padlocks always have one or more keys with them..

lock collectors know the difference and stay away from the "antique style" locks.. lever or other.

atlanta*casting 25 Aug 2008

#18

I think that not too many collectors have a problem with a seller
trying to sell repro items as repro items..

It's when sellers use terms like "came from Brand XXX prison" / "I was told"
or "these coulda been used on" to induce the buyer into believing they could
be worth more than market value.

Tom R. 25 Aug 2008

#19

atlanta*casting

I went back and reread the listing. Nowhere did it refer to them comming from any prison, and when he said that they could have been used on a certin outlaw you must be the only person to believe that they were. The rest of us knew that he was just joking. What was wrong with throwing in a little humor?
As for your statement about (isn't it strange that these type of padlocks always having one or more keys with them). You might go to ebay and do a search on old lever locks. You might find it interesting that there really are quite a few of them with keys. As a mater of fact if you go to completed auctions you will find a gentleman that sold a nice selection of lever lock keys. And if you think that these are fakes then you need to do a little reading.
Tom R.

The Amazing Michael 25 Aug 2008

#20

Tom R., the locks in the auction I have posted a link to are 100% repro Eastern Indian junk.....I'd bet my house on it. I have been a lock, cuff, and restraint collector since the mid-1970's......I know what I am talking about.

As far as lever locks go, I own HUNDREDS of them.....some made up to 200 years ago, some made no more than 2 years ago; lever locks are still in production today.....especialy in India. Search eBay and you will find old looking locks just like (and I mean IDENTICAL, down to the last rivit) the ones in the auction. Many people do state that they are repros, but some are con-artists and try to decieve. Several have famous prison or company brass tags on them to add to the buyer appeal.....my own brother tried to sell me a "genuine Alcatraz lock and set of leg irons" once....he was convinced by the little brass tag, but I knew better. When there is money to be made, conmen and conwomen will stop at nothing to get you to part with your hard-earned money.

Cheers, Mike

J.Kuczero 25 Aug 2008

#21

It's a shame that modern manufacturing technology has ruined the repro industry in the near east. I have several padlocks made in the late 1970's by the same company as the new cheap junk repros. They're heavy, solid, secure, well made lever locks with hand forged keys. Cast brass bodies with chromed steel shackles. Not much different than one that might actually have been made in the late 1800's since they were still made the same way.

The new junk is all machine stamped sheet metal parts barely held together by by a few rivets.

atlanta*casting 25 Aug 2008

#22

Well...

I guess the buyer will be enjoying his humor filled shakels with
lever locks made the same way they were in the 1800's.

atlanta*casting 25 Aug 2008

#23

Funny, the sellers name is also Tom..

Will be watching to see if the buyer leaves some humor filled feedback
like the coin buyer ...

J.Kuczero 25 Aug 2008

#24

I'm sorry. I guess I wasn't clear. The lever locks on these shackles fall into the later catagory. (Cheap repro junk.) But I guess that's just so the locks will match the shackles right?

Edgeplay_Cgo 25 Aug 2008

#25

> And yes DUMB ASS the metal was not cast but forged and they did
> pull them apart to put them on. Usuall they had a tool that they
> would use. They were not manifactured but made by hand by
> blacksmiths. So before you go and shoot off your big mouth about
> something you don't know anything about you might try to do a
> little research.

Did your blacksmith make the electro-welded chain, too? And did he electro-weld the staples to the bands? That's not hand forged chain, nor are the staples forge welded on.

The patina is more consistent with mild steel than with forged wrought iron.

Nah! They're fakes. Probably some sort of scrap retaining clamps with the chain welded on. Completely worthless, even as a novelty. At least the ten buck Indian Darbies are useful as toys, even with your putative "tool."

If you are the seller and being honest, then sorry DUMBASS, you were swindled and bought some junk from someone cleverer than you are.

This one should probably be forwarded to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) at http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

And to the Postal Inspector's office at http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fr ... tactUs.htm

They should also be reported to eBay as frauds. eBay will probably do nothing, as usual.

So should the other one with the Cow Kickers and padlock. The lock looks neat, and looks authentic, but the "shakle set" looks to be an assemblage. Is the chain attached to the kickers with tire chain repair links?

These crooks are thick as roaches on eBay.

Cindi 25 Aug 2008

#26

taking time out from my search for the Tower of Cryptic Babel to applaude Dennis for the last one

Tom R. 25 Aug 2008

#27

DENNIS DENNIS DENNIS

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are guilty of doing the same thing that you are acusing the seller of doing. Trying to twist, leave things out and actually telling lies. If you will just go back and read the rest of the comments that I first made you will see that I also said (DON"T KNOW IF THE CHAIN IS REAL IT MIGHT NOT BE.)
Second, LIE that you said is that the seller's name is Tom. Again that is a "LIE" and I don't know where you got that imformation. I am not the seller and the sellers name is not Tom. Altho I have purchaced a lot of items from this seller over several years and know as a FACT THAT THIS SELLER IS AN HONEST PERSON. Every thing that he has ever said in any of his listings are true to the best of his knowledge. If there was an error then it wasn't his intention. I have bought a few items from him in the past that I wasn't happy with and he was always very prompt in giving me my money back with no questions asked. How about just checking his feed back and that will confirm what I am saying. As a mater of fact some of his feed back actually says that the item recieved was better that advertised.
SO BEFORE YOU GO AND SLANDER SOMEONE YOU SHOULD GET YOU FACTS STRAIGHT. You are not only a DUMB ASS but sounds like you are on an EGO TRIP trying to put someone down in order to make your self look better. I just hope that the other readers of this will see what you are trying to do.
Respectfuly,
Tom R.

atlanta*casting 25 Aug 2008

#28

Actually it was me that said the sellers name is Tom.

That is what he signed a message reply to me as.

You must be really confused..

Yes Yes, do have a look at his feedback. important to note that a recent
unhappy customer DID NOT receive a refund...

Edgeplay_Cgo 25 Aug 2008

#29

> You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are guilty of doing the same thing that you are
> acusing the seller of doing. Trying to twist, leave things out and actually telling lies.
> If you will just go back and read the rest of the comments that I first made you will see
> that I also said (DON"T KNOW IF THE CHAIN IS REAL IT MIGHT NOT BE.)

So you have admitted that you know the shackles are a fraud.

If the chain is not real, then the whole assemblage is a FAKE. The whole piece is welded together and sold as one piece. It is a modern fabrication. If the bands are antique, which I doubt, the maker ruined some antique parts to make a fake shackle. The act of assembling them from antique (?) and modern parts is an act of creating a fake. The act of selling them, knowing they are fakes, as you have admitted, constitutes fraud. Since the transaction is likely to be completed, at least partially through the mails or similar services, this constitutes MAIL FRAUD, a Federal FELONY. You have admitted that you know the seller to be a felon.

> Second, LIE that you said is that the seller's name is Tom. Again that is a "LIE"

Go back and check the texts. I never made that allegation.

> I am not the seller and the sellers name is not Tom. Altho I have purchaced a lot of items
> from this seller over several years and know as a FACT THAT THIS SELLER IS AN HONEST
> PERSON. Every thing that he has ever said in any of his listings are true to the best of
> his knowledge. If there was an error then it wasn't his intention.

I'm sorry. It's obvious you are not the seller. You are the seller's sock puppet.

Maybe you sell some good stuff. I honestly don't care. Maybe you honestly thought that piece of junk was an antique restraint. I honestly don't care. Maybe you don't know the implication of committing mail fraud. I honestly don't care.

The so-called shackles are fakes.

atlanta*casting 25 Aug 2008

#30

The seller refers to the items from title to end of description as SHAKELS.

Clever, eh? ...

ANON 25 Aug 2008

#31

To Tom R, if you have had dealings with this person in the past then I would presume you have his private email and you can contact this person. You can inform him to what the item really is instead of attacking people here. Enough bandwidth has been wasted already.................

Paul Reardon 25 Aug 2008

#32

Hello All,

The following ebay guidelines helped me in negotiations with an unscrupulous seller a few years back. Whether these ebay policies have been revised since, I do not know, so please be guided accordingly. At any rate, the following may help some contributors to this board if they find themselves having to play hardball.

1)Authenticity Disclaimers

Sellers may not disclaim knowledge of, or responsibility for, the authenticity or legality of the items offered in their listings. Sellers should take steps to ensure that their items are authentic before listing them on eBay. If a seller cannot verify the authenticity of an item, the seller is not permitted to list it.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status

The following statement violates eBay's Authenticity Disclaimer Policy:
"I cannot guarantee the authenticity of this item, so please bid accordingly."

2)Seller Non-Performance

When a seller lists an item on eBay, and a buyer bids for and wins that item, the seller and buyer have entered into a contract. Both members are expected to honor that contract. In accordance with that contract, the seller may not:

Significantly misrepresent an item by not meeting the terms and item description outlined in the listing.

Violations of this policy by a Seller may result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status
Referral to Law Enforcement

3)Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described Policy

eBay's Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described policy requires sellers to deliver items they have sold on eBay and have received payment for. Sellers who fail to deliver items to buyers, or who deliver items which are "significantly not as described", may face possible account restriction and suspension. An item is considered "significantly not as described" if the seller clearly misrepresents the item in a way that directly affects its value or usability. In some cases, eBay will also contact and cooperate with law enforcement to penalize fraudulent sellers.

Buyers can open disputes for items they purchase on eBay which are either not received or are received but are significantly not as described.
Buyers who are unable to resolve their concerns through the Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described dispute process may then be eligible for reimbursement through eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program.

Note: If you paid for your eBay transaction with PayPal, you'll need to go through PayPal's Buyer Complaint Process.
eBay and PayPal work hand in hand to help buyers resolve their transaction problems quickly and effectively.
By filing your claim with PayPal, you'll be able to deal with payment and refund issues directly and you'll automatically receive coverage equal to or greater than coverage available on eBay for your transaction.
Buyers must have a PayPal account in order to file a PayPal Buyer Protection claim.

joe tanner 26 Aug 2008

#33

hi !! all ::: you all are wasting your time & energy as EBAY nor PAYPAL will do NOTHING !!! they know NOTHING & act DUMBER then the idiot sellers that sell the stuff.. you know it & so do they & they don't care as long as the $$$ keeps rolling in.... joe

Anonymous 26 Aug 2008

#34

Spoken by a man who knows something about idiot sellers.

Edgeplay_Cgo 26 Aug 2008

#35

PayPal's buyer protection plan (BPP) actually works pretty well. It's their seller protection that sucks.

They will pay of an Item Not Received claim if there is no electronic delivery confirmation.

They will pay off a Significantly Not Described (SNAD) claim, pretty much on your word, but you must return the product with Electronic Delivery Confirmation first.

The big thing to watch is the amount of buyer protection offered. IIRC, they offer eithe two thousand or two hundred dollars protection depending on the qualifications of the seller. They'll trry to get the whole amount out of the seller's account, but if his account is flat, they will only pay up to the BPP limit. This can hurt if you bought a five hundred buck item with only two bills worth of BPP.

Unknown / guest 26 Aug 2008

#36

Your best bet, on eBay, is to pay with PayPal, and fund that with a credit card, rather than your PP balance. That gives you two bites at the apple, PayPal's process and a CC chargeback.

Michael Lee 26 Aug 2008

#37

Im Still wondering why the Attack ???

What I was stating was a Fact ! These were not Shackles of any kind , but

something simply thrown together w/ a couple if indian licks added ,In hopes that

some sucker will buy it. Well the seller got his wish .....

Still it makes me suspecious as to why Tom R is so defense though . Hmm.

ML

anonymous 27 Aug 2008

#38

if you google the email address of the first Tom R post it comes up as a coin collector.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... ell=1&aq=t

if you look at the underbidder of the shakel auction, then check into the sellers feeedback you will see a similar name.

iwino2.

No rocket science needed here .....

anonymous 27 Aug 2008

#39

shakel auction link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ankle-Shakels-Circ- ... 0251203534

The Amazing Michael 28 Aug 2008

#40

Are you saying that Tom R. and the seller of the junk leg irons are in cahoots???

anonymous 28 Aug 2008

#41

Does the sun come up in the morning?

anonymous 28 Aug 2008

#42

Check the sellers feedback.

Look at the auctions of the disgruntled buyer and see who the underbidder was..

A Non A Mouse 28 Aug 2008

#43

I vote we get rid of the "Bondage Ho" websites and we'll have plenty more Bandwidth to discuss this subject with

Anonymous 29 Aug 2008

#44

Nuh-uh I vote we keep the bondage ho sites. Let's save bandwidth by getting rid of the election coverage sites instead.

The Amazing Michael 29 Aug 2008

#45

For once, I agree with Anonymous. =)

Cheers, Mike

J.Kuczero 29 Aug 2008

#46

Yep. Nekkid wimmin an' handcuffs, my two most favoritist thangs in th' whole world.

J.Kuczero 29 Aug 2008

#47

The horse hobbles and spring lock brought $1200 + Fees... I'm gonna have to go look around in the barn for any high dollar restraints I may have overlooked.