The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

there is something about these ...

23 visible archived posts · 23 preserved total · topic ID 2697

atlanta*casting 24 Aug 2008

Can't quite put my finger on it but ...

Are these really Thompson cuffs?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0297668526

Would you believe anything a seller says just because they have the
power seller logo?

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lauher 24 Aug 2008

No - they are not Thompson cuffs. We just have another dealer trying to rip people off. These are the same repros you see selling all over eBay. The dealer does have more imagination than most, he did not try to sell them as cuffs from Alcatraz.

Joe

Edgeplay_Cgo 25 Aug 2008

Hmmm. FraudBay has reduced the number of characters allowed in the description field for reporting a fraud. The benobo monkeys that pass for eBay staph obviously were over-challenged reading the previous fraud descriptions.

What a joke.

Caveat Emptor.

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Dorson 25 Aug 2008

I think the new CEO of ebay maybe should pull his head out of his rear and fix what is really wrong with ebay.... Maybe fire all the lawyers first, then the bean counters and get people with some common sense...

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J.Kuczero 25 Aug 2008

It's interesting to note that I actually called e-bay about the Johnny Cash cuffs. The phone rep could call up the auction listing without me telling him what it was from the fraud report I filed through the auction listing. I spent at least 15 minutes on the phone with him explaining why it was a fraudulent listing and he assured me that he'd file an internal report on them. 2 days later they sold for $73.00. So I guess anything goes huh? (Just be sure you accept payments through paypal.)

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Edgeplay_Cgo 25 Aug 2008

> he assured me that he'd file an internal report on them.

The eBay reps tend to tell you anything. Usually something unrelated to your issue. Since your guy sounded interested, I bet he actually did file a report and eBay's bureaucracy ate it. I don't expect the benobo monkey staph find eBay any less frustrating than we do.

It's a shame, really.

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atlanta*casting 30 Aug 2008

The seller got $100.00 for the cuffs ...

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Anonymous 30 Aug 2008

thedreman123 got a really good deal!!!! Only $100.00 !!!!!

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J.Kuczero 31 Aug 2008

http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Wayne-True-Gri ... dZViewItem

I e-mailed the seller about the listing title and her response was: "no, they are reproductions, we use the movie True Grit as a point of reference. 'As Seen In' ".

So with this pair they'll send you a Certificate of Authenticity attesting to the fact that they're genuine reproductions that have never been used for anything special?

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The Amazing Michael 31 Aug 2008

#10

The "True Grit" cuffs do say very clearly in the discribtion that they are "new" "reproductions" and do not say that they were the actual ones used in the movie Tru Grit. Some of the things they sell are the genuine items used in said movie, but some of it is repro stuff (the discription will tell you what it is......look at some of their other auctions.....the Devil is in the details). I have bought a few things from this seller and I have had good experiences.....just wanted to add that.

Cheers, Mike

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atlanta*casting 31 Aug 2008

#11

As I said in another post on the same subject:

Re: This one takes the cake!
August 25 2008, 12:30 AM

I think that not too many collectors have a problem with a seller
trying to sell repro items as repro items..

It's when sellers use terms like "came from Brand XXX prison" / "I was told"
or "these coulda been used on" to induce the buyer into believing they could
be worth more than market value.

Then I have a problem with it.

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J.Kuczero 31 Aug 2008

#12

Now you're thinking like an e-bay executive Michael.

Entertainment Memorabilia > Movie Memorabilia > Props > Reproductions = Reproduction items used as props in a movie. (The word Reproduction doesn't appear anywhere in the listing.) Unless they've actually been used as a prop in a movie this is not the correct catagory for the listing.

John Wayne "True Grit" Old West Handcuffs

Activities that are not permitted include:

Creating a listing title or subtitle that does not accurately describe the item for sale, or that includes information that could mislead buyers as to what is actually for sale. (Misleading Title)

E-bay's specific example of what is NOT allowed was "Black leather jacket as worn by Brad Pitt in the movie 'Fight Club'."

This pair of beautiful movie prop " Old West Handcuffs" are exact in every detail and are in working order and are as seen in the film "Young Guns and True Grit" Condition: New Size: 11" in length, metal with antique finish , and will fit a good size wrist. The winning bidder will also receive a COA from Hollywood Prop Supply.

This says that if I watch "Young Guns" or "True Grit" I'll see these handcuffs (not a pair just like them). And Hollywood Prop Supply is going to send me a Certificate of Authenticity (it doesn't say what it's going to authenticate).

But it does say "Condition: New" and the seller does take paypal so by all means let's not interfere. Someone out there is bound to want to add the handcuffs John Wayne used in True Grit to their collection.

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The Amazing Michael 31 Aug 2008

#13

Yeah, okay, you do have a point.....HOWEVER, we are living in an age where every single tv add, for whatever product, has 40 lines of fine print in a 10 second time span. Everone with something to sell needs buyers in order to stay a float. I am sure the eBay seller doesn't mind when people get confused and THINK that these are "THE" John Wayne True Grit handcuffs when they don't bother to read the not-so-fine print on the item discribtion. My point was that this seller is a lesser kind of evil than the Jonny Cash Folsom cuffs guy and the tail-pipe clamp leg iron guy.

In all fairness, I see your point and it is well taken. I sell on eBay and I am a much better seller than any of the above mentioned turds.

Cheers, Mike

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Edgeplay_Cgo 31 Aug 2008

#14

> I sell on eBay and I am a much better seller than any of the above
> mentioned turds.

I'll drink to that.

I don't mind repros. Hell, I have some myself. I don't even mind the "as seen on ..." type of blurb. Most people can see that as marketing hype. It's the down and dirty fraud that cheeses me.

I do find it interesting that they offer a LOA for a repro. It's probably just boilerplate in their ad, but I'd be curious to see what it says.

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Amazing Anonymous 31 Aug 2008

#15

"I sell on eBay and I am a much better seller than any of the above mentioned turds."

Wishful thinking.

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The Amazing Michael 01 Sep 2008

#16

Wishful thinking???? I think not!!! I pride myself on being a good eBayer (buyer AND seller). Check me out.....
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ndhunter42
100% positive, buster!!! (AKA) NO problems!!! Not "a few hang ups", not "well, could have been better", not "I expected more"..........my eBay record is PERFECT!!! Read it and weep, phantom punk.

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J.Kuczero 01 Sep 2008

#17

I did e-mail and ask specifically about the COA. The answer was:

Alright this is what the COA says: This ------ was designed and is intended for film and stage use. It is the same as can be seen in------.

Interesting. You could fill those blanks in for anything ever seen in any movie huh? But having a COA is a good selling angle. And notice the "details" here.... "is the same as can be seen in" vs. "as seen in". Although I'm not sure that these cuffs were designed and intended for film and stage use. But they may know something I don't about them. I thought they were just cheap reproductions.

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The Amazing Michael 01 Sep 2008

#18

Do you own a pair of these cuffs? If you don't, I can tell you that most of them don't work for crap and don't have much of a use outside of "stage prop" or "wall hanger".

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Edgeplay_Cgo 01 Sep 2008

#19

This ------ was designed and is intended for film and stage use. It is the same as can be seen in------.

Interesting. You could fill those blanks in for anything ever seen in any movie huh? But having a COA is a good selling angle. And notice the "details" here.... "is the same as can be seen in" vs. "as seen in". Although I'm not sure that these cuffs were designed and intended for film and stage use. But they may know something I don't about them. I thought they were just cheap reproductions.

They are just cheap repros. I expect they are close enough to the truth to avoid a mail fraud charge, but they are Indian knockoffs. "designed and is intended for film and stage use?" They were designed and intended to be cheap replicas of Darbies. I suppose they would be "suitable" for the highschool stage. Without looking at the movie, frame by frame, I suppose they might pass for "As seen in." I'll bet lunch the studio use actual darbies in the piece. They're not all that hard to find, after all. Or rubber replicas if there was any danger of hurting yourself in them.

They're crap.

As to whether they would hold up in actual use, it's hard to tell. I certainly wouldn't trust them, but I haven't tried to break a pair. Junk is surprising, sometimes.

The certificate of authenticity is an interesting scam. It's not actually fraudulent. It does go to show you how little a COA can be worth.

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J.Kuczero 01 Sep 2008

#20

Actually I do own a pair of both the adjustable and regular model. I can't imagine what use any darby would have these days other than for a stage prop or wall hanger. As far as breaking them is concerned, I'd have to say they'd hold up at least as well if not better than Hiatt's current offerings. They're at least made of poor quality steel as opposed to Hiatt's recycled pot metal. Once you've cleaned off the cow urine induced "patina" and lightly oiled them they seem to function as well as any darby does. The finish is a bit rough and the swivel is a poor imitation but it's functional. I've actually recommended them to a few new collectors. If you're just looking to have a pair of darbies in your collection they're a much more economical alternative.

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Steve Santini 01 Sep 2008

#21

In some parts of India these sorts of cuffs are still in use.

Maybe not quite as crude, but Darbies all the same.

And some of them rather old.

They have been using them there ever since British occupation and colonization.

Steve Santini

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J.Kuczero 01 Sep 2008

#22

That's true Steve. But usually only in those parts of India where restraints are only used long enough to take a criminal to the public market where both the handcuffs and the hands will be removed.

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Steve Santini 01 Sep 2008

#23

To quote "Fat Tony", (one of the mafia guys from The Simpsons); "It's funny because it's true..."

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