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Chubb escort keys

38 visible archived posts · 38 preserved total · topic ID 2733

GB68 03 Oct 2008

I am looking for a chubb escort key ...i have about 20+ keys and none fit The cuffs have the number factory stamped in them 72..i know theres alot of differant keys but ...maybe someone might have one that will fit....

Steve Santini 03 Oct 2008

To find the right key.

With the Chubbs I have owned over the years I have not seen any factory done stamping to denote keycode and if numerical stamping existed on the cuffs or the keys it was usually done by the prison or service that used the cuffs.

Cheers and good luck, Steve Santini

joe tanner 03 Oct 2008

check on EBAY as i am listing a bunch of different cuff keys right now thou the evening & the ESCORT & DETAINER are 2 of them.... joe

Steve Santini 03 Oct 2008

It may prove to be impossible to find the right key even if the number on the key matches the number on the cuffs.

i.e. suppose 60 different jails and forces stamped "75" on a cuff they owned and on it's matching keys?

Indeed, it will be quite a challenge to find a matching key to your particular cuff.

Steve Santini

Mikeintightpants 03 Oct 2008

I have 5 pairs of Chubb Escorts in my collection, all of the keys have numbers stamped on them - I don't know who stamped the numbers there EXCEPT that my latest pair were brand new/never-been-used/straight out of the box, came from an impeccable source and still had the keys sealed in a small box with "Chubb Custodial Services" tamper-proof tape. Incidentally, the cuffs themselves were not in a box - I've never seen a box for Escorts.

The keys have "Chubb" on them and one side of the key has a letter "A" stamped on it, the other side has a number "9" stamped on it together with a "*" in the bottom left corner. From the attached pic you can see that the box is marked "Code A" and above that is the model # of the cuffs followed by "/3" which I assume refers to the 3 keys that I ordered for this pair. On the top line is written a number, consisting of 2 alpha and 6 numeric characters (I've deliberately obscured it in the pic for obvious reasons) that I assume is a key pattern/reorder number.

None of the key markings or box markings appear on the cuffs.

So what does all this prove? Very little really, except that Chubb do (sometimes at least) stamp their keys before they leave the factory and that they do not always (if ever!) stamp any sort of number on the cuffs.

[/IMG]

Mike Riccard
a.k.a. Mikeintightpants
Birmingham, England

Unresolved image reference ↗

cuffman69 03 Oct 2008

A number of years ago I managed to obtain a pair directly from Chubb. The keys came with numbers stamped on them however no corresponding numbers were stamped on the cuffs. I was informed that no two pairs were keyed alike so it's most unlikely you'll ever find the correct key. Chubb Escorts are fitted with Chubb AVA locks. It is possible to have these locks decoded and new keys code from the code however only certain locksmiths will be able to do this and I would suspect that most would have reservations about doing this, especially on handcuffs which it is unlikely that you can "prove" legal ownership.

Good luck.

Mark(RMP)

Mick Hanzlik 05 Oct 2008

A few years ago I duplicated some Chubb Ava Keys for the Escorts. I used regular Chubb AVA keys that are available as blanks over here, as they are also used in High Security Padlocks and Door Locks.

However, there were slight differences in the keys. The Escorts were slightly thinner in the stem, and I had to file this down by hand.

I did have the handcuffs at my workbench, so I was able to get them down to size by trial and error. Then the filed down blank went into my cutting machine with the dedicated AVA jaws to hold it.

Even after the key was cut, it needed fine tuning to make it fit. These are very accurate locks, and I doubt if anyone could make a key without having the cuff to try it in.

Obviously the only guys with codes are Chubb, so as the cuff does not have any markings on it, it seems that coming up with a key is a no-no.

I am not sure if keys can be made by the impression method, I doubt it. Maybe Steve or Ian might have some thoughts on this. I can supply the UK AVA blanks if you can't get them where you are.

Hope this helps

MH

Steve Santini 05 Oct 2008

Hi Mick,

Over here in Canada Chubb Avva locks and key blanks are almost non existant.

I do have a Chubb Avva cylinder that is fitted to an Abloy old style night latch box that in on my back door of the house but this was from my own collection.

Many years ago when I worked for Reilly Locksmith Co. in Toronto, I found in the backroom of the shop there were some Chubb blanks in a box.

I bought them all and took them home.

A few years later I got my first pair of Escorts with only one key and I very clearly remember sitting with one of the blanks, a hand file, a vice grip plier to hold the head of the blank in, and a phone book to rest in on as I laboriously hand filed myself a duplicate key from looking at the original that came with the cuffs.

No dial calipers or micrometre just eye work.

It took hours but was very rewarding because finally it worked.

As for impressioning, I feel this is nearly impossible but I did find when hand filing my blank for my cuffs that once I started to get VERY close to the angles and depths of the cuts on the original key I did notice impressions as the key was able to turn farther in the lock.

But, starting from a blank with zero cuts there are no impressions to be seen and all of the wafers seem to mark the same.

Cheers, Steve

Steve Santini 05 Oct 2008

There is a Chubb Avva key decoding device or method out there.

I found it years ago on the website of a British locksmith supply firm I cannot remember.

There were no pictures of it or much of a description but I do remember that the site made it very clear it was for very restricted sale only.

Cheers, Steve

Mick Hanzlik 05 Oct 2008

#10

Steve...I don't recall seeing a Chubb Ava decoder on sale, but I think you can get an adapter to fit a standard key cutting machine, so you can cut the keys.

I must congratulate you on cutting that key just by eye. You must have more patience that me!

Knowing the way the Ava lock works, it seems unlikely that you will get any impression marks, as you said.

I wonder how many Escorts there are out there without keys?

cuffman69 05 Oct 2008

#11

Hi,

John Falle of Falle Safe Security manufactures a Chubb AVA decoder amongst many other tools to decode, pick and bypass high security locks.

Certain items are restricted to the security services whilst others are available to trading locksmiths.

The tool decodes the lock and from that code a key can be cut. As I mentioned not every locksmith can offer this service.

joe tanner 05 Oct 2008

#12

MARK & ALL ::: you were misinformed when you were told that no 2 chubb cuffs were keyed alike.... not so, as for over 20 + years we ordered direct from CHUBBS MANY MANY -- ESCORT handcuffs & in each shipment ALL ESCORTS were keyed ALIKE.... i do not remember for sure as i did not pay attention as it did not seem to matter back then, but we MAY have received over a period of time a COUPLE of different keyings as i did have a few extra keys ordered to come with each batch & i do remember having at least 3 DIFFERENT keys ( keyings )..... i also remember that sometime in the mid 1990's or even before when CHUBBS asked us to be the sole distributor of CHUBB cuffs for the U.S & CANADA (long story, but i declined) that there would be only ONE keying for ALL cuffs etc etc..... joe

GB68 05 Oct 2008

#13

Well we dont have much here in canada ....24 years of collecting .and working for the dept of justice i still get asked why i collect ...its fun...as for these cuffs that i need a key for not one person from some of the biggest prisons in canada have ever seen or hear of this cuff ...if i cant get a key it wont be the end of the world ...i will just buy evey one i see and pray one will fit.....and hope i get lucky

Anonymous 06 Oct 2008

#14

You might as well ask for a key that will fit a Schlage door lock of your neighbor down the street.

Hey, offer a challenge.

The Amazing Michael, the Great Santini, can get out of those.

They are the ones who can do it.

Mick Hanzlik 06 Oct 2008

#15

Joe, I seem to recall that when I spoke to a guy from Chubb way back, he said that each prison they dealt with had their own key number, but all the Escorts would have been keyed alike. This makes sense, as they couldn't go searching for a key if the guy who put on the cuffs finished his shift and they needed to unlock the cuffs.

Also, if extra keys were needed, Chubb's could check their records to see which key number would be needed for a particular prison.

This maybe would have happened when they exported cuffs to you. You could have just ordered more keys, and they would hav known what they sent you initially.

I may be wrong, but your memory goes when you get older!!!

Mikeintightpants 06 Oct 2008

#16

Heh Mick, I'm sure you're right as that's my recollection too.
Don't think I ever spoke to Chubb muself about this particular aspect (they were always so cagey about Escorts, and as some of you will know they actually denied their existence until a pic was published in the British press quite a while ago), but it came up in discussions (not on this site, but face-to-face) some years ago with fellow collectors here in the UK. My recollection at the time was that Chubb were understood to have definitely supplied Escorts in batches to specific prisons/facilities, all with the same designated keyway for that facility - and additional pairs were supplied to that facility when ordered - with the same keyway. But I have no doubt that at the same time Chubb were providing sets of Escorts that were uniquely keyed.
I just hope that some of those in my collection are "uniquely keyed", but guess I'll never know for sure!

Mike Riccard
a.k.a. Mikeintightpants
Birmingham, England

Unknown / guest 06 Oct 2008

#17

Sorry everybody, I'm not an "anonymous" poster, that previous message is from me, as signed.

Mike Riccard
a.k.a. Mikeintightpants
Birmingham, England

joe tanner 06 Oct 2008

#18

MICK :: you are quite right.... each prison had their own keying... period..... CHUBB - ONLY sold to prisons - no jails or police dept etc etc... we were very lucky that CHUBB sold to us... we were GRAND FATHERED in as my great late father in law PRYNCE WHEELER had been buying directly from CHUBBS for just a few years before he past away under just his name & business -- FRONTIER GUN SHOP... when he passed away, CHUBBS declined to sell to the new WHEELER-TANNER ESCAPES... over a couple of months, i kept asking to speak to someone higher up & finally got the top manager to continue to sell to us.... basically, i convinced him that we WERE indeed selling to prisons etc etc.... which we had so to speak.... i never purchased extra keys AFTER making a small bulk purchase, but always ordered a few extra keys to be shipped WITH the order... a few years after, CHUBBS would send me ESCORT cuffs with a CC marked on each key.... this marking was CUFF COLLECTOR ..... might as well bore eveybody with the rest of the story..... then later, CHUBBS wanted US to become the sole distributor of their cuffs for the US & CANADA markets.... i declined as they did not want to give me any kind of an expense account, but yet wanted me to travel to various prisons etc etc to show there cuffs.... shortly after, CHUBBS refused to continue to sell to us..... they had gotten some fool in NEW YORK to do there bidding & of course that person refused to sell to me also.... less then a year later, i was told by my friend that worked at CHUBBS that the person in NEW YORK had QUIT etc etc.... things then were up in the air & within another several months, my friend left CHUBBS ..... joe

Steve Santini 06 Oct 2008

#19

When I was a teenager, my buddy Alan Kake's dad worked for the Chubb company in Toronto.

I remember him clearly because he was the first person I had ever seen who had an Abloy cylinder on his front door (It was not popular commercially back then, just like Medeco when it first came out).

Anyway, I recall looking at Chubb brochures his dad brought home (he brought them for me knowing I was interested in escapes and locks).

The Escorts were in there and I remember him telling me that Chubb in Canada had tried to get the prisons here in Canada to carry them and use them.

They, Chubb Canada, had sent reps to the Correction Canada people to demonstrate how superior and secure the cuffs were.

He also told me that the reason they never got the contract is because the cuff was so damn expensive to purchase.

Chubb already had reps in Canada but it was the price of the cuffs that screwed any possible sales.

Steve Santini

Ian McColl 07 Oct 2008

#20

Hi, I think John Falle makes a decoder but the chsnces of getting one are very slim. From all the cuff and padlock and filing cabinet locks I have seen and worked on, it appears that the key is cut to a nominal size based on what codes are available or used. The slide tumblers ( which are over length at both ends are palced into the cyliner housing. The key is inserted and truned and the protuding ends of the tumblers are ground or machined down to mean the circumference of the cylinder housing.

The setting of the tumblers is very precise to it's particular key. Any slight difference in a duplicate key will cause problem as other have noted.

In most cases keys are stamped with numbers but rarely the matching locks.

I have never seen the Falle decoderbut would love to too if anyone out there has one.

Ian

Mick Hanzlik 07 Oct 2008

#21

Ian...you have jogged my memory! When I had a visit to the Chubb factory many years ago, they used the "Make the lock fit the key" idea when they were building 5-lever security deadlocks.

The keys were made first, then one of the keys was put in a jig with 5 levers with no gate cut out. (in fact these were called "Detainers", so the gating was on the edge and not internally)

The key was turned by the machine, and when all the detainers were nested in the cuts of the key, a blade came across and cut the gating.

I suspect what Ian has mentioned is how they made the Ava locks. It seems so logical and less tricky to machine off the oversize tips of the sliders, rather than have to sort out different depths for each key.

Thanks Ian for reminding me!

Regards

MH

Dorson 08 Oct 2008

#22

I have been following this thread with interest and the one question that comes to mind. How do you take apart the cuffs enough to pull the cylinder on this lock in order to duplicate a key, and that is provided you already have a working key.

-Dorson

Steve Santini 08 Oct 2008

#23

No "cylinder" per say.

The body of the cuffs is cast with the ridges that the sliders fit into and retract from.

Basically, the cuff body is cast and then the sliders are dumped into it.

The only way to take them out is to remove the hardened keyway entrance plate (The plated round bit on the bottom of the cuff where the key goes in).

Surrounding this keyway plate is a collar spring that was depressed once the guts were put into the body of the cuff.

Once it all was in, this keyway plate with it's collar spring was pushed into place in the bottom of the cuff.

The interior body of the bottom of the cuff has a ridge that allows for this collar spring to expand once the keyway plate is pushed in.

The only way to depress this spring is to drill 2 small holes very near the bottom edge of the cuff on either side of the cuff.

You must then use 2 tools to poke in these holes and depress the collar spring all the while prying or exerting pulling force on the keyway plate.

Ian McColl told me how to do this a decade ago and he warned it would not be easy.

It is not.

If you do manage to get the keyway plate off the sliders will come spilling out.

Be prepared.

Steve Santini

Tristan 08 Oct 2008

#24

Uh, so, this is what you guys masturbate about?

Oh, here honey, hold my tumbler while I manipulate my lever and cylinder. You are so good. Your keyway is so fine. My pins and little springs have never felt like this. Keep doing that and I will move to Canada and become an Escape Artist.

Annon 08 Oct 2008

#25

There are no springs in a Chubb Ava lock.

Just the ones in your pin shaped head.

Hey, I hear the sideshow is hiring.

Better look into it.

Ian McColl 08 Oct 2008

#26

Steve is right on how the get the hardened plate out. Four holes are needed and three hands ( four hands would be better) if you wish to attempt this. the holes should be about 3/32 diamter and about the same from the outer edge.

The keyhole plate is chrome but the spring is black, so when you drill in and feel the drill break through, this is when to stop. Because the spring is black, it may not be clear when you look into the hole. Depressing it with a thin strong tool will be the way to tell if you are in the right spot.

While dressing the spring in at least two adjustant at the same time, you will need to lever the plate upward via the keyhole.

Once you have done what you want to the cuff, the holes can be filled by hammering lead shot into the hole and filing off. Then spray them with flat black paint.

Ian
(tristan... isn't that a silly name for a girl?)

Dorson 08 Oct 2008

#27

Thanks both to Steve and Ian for the info and will tuck it away in the gray matter upstairs.

So why is Tristan a silly name for a girl? I thought Tristan could be used for either gender.... After all, look what name they stuck me with....

Ian McColl 08 Oct 2008

#28

Hi Dorson, parent's can be so cruel.

I just felt I had to say something to Tristan stupid comment. If he thinks it's a 'wank' to stimulate the brain matter with real and deep information on what ever subject you are into then I feel it's makes for a very sorry sad and world.

I guess he would then be silly enough to believe that Sarah Palin and her belive that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time and that her imaginery friend created everything.

If it wasn't for people who think and learn about lots of thing, then the world would be run by narrow minded people or groups with historical stories to justify everything.

Tristan, think harder and deeper and you will enhance yourself.

Ian

Atlanta*Casting 08 Oct 2008

#29

It must be election season..

political anti Palin rant here, racist NIJ rant in the hiatt thompson 2222 post.

There are many websites for political and racist rants and views and only one Handuffs
site with a HANDCUFF forum, Can we keep it that way please.

Atlanta*Casting 08 Oct 2008

#30

Would someone post pictures of the lock parts for the Chubb escort handcuffs?

maybe a picture of where exactly to drill the 2 holes to compress the spring that
will free the lock parts from the cuff body as well.

Big Thanks..

Shawn Ness 08 Oct 2008

#31

Not to add to the polical thing but I think it is funny that an Aussie knows more about US politics than some Americans

Stan Willis 08 Oct 2008

#32

That might be because he is smarter than most Americans.

Ian McColl 08 Oct 2008

#33

Hi, sorry if you thought it polictical but my beef is with people who think that anyone who engrosses themself it deep thinking or going out of the comfort zone to better understand things in any field are 'mastebating' jerking , wanking whatever. Apart from the verbs being crude, it's just sad.

I pointed out Palin not for polictical reasons but for to the fact the antiqainted thinking, passed on by generation to generation might suddenly surface as new mainstream thinking. (she's in the headlines here so I thought it a good reference point)

Get with the times, think long and hard about things and learn but don't be happy with any answer, just accept each answer as it comes and don't think it's the end or the truth.

I am very happy to have spend hours understanding locks and like many here, like to pass on the their knowledge. There is nothing more pleasureable than believing in something only to meet someone else who can tell you what you were thinking was different or wrong and each day we learn.

I have learn heaps here because their are many out who have abilties I don't to reseach and compile info that could be lost to time.

and now I think Tristan is a better name for a girl.

Ian

Tremex 29 Oct 2008

#34

I have found this :

http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/n ... sfe?id=791

Vince 29 Oct 2008

#35

...and what the school kids don't know is that Government perfected the ability to "photographically duplicate keys" over a half century ago.

The visual reading technique (or a variation of it) is employed by many Locksmiths for decoding common keys on a daily basis. However interesting, it is of little use for obtaining keys for locks (Chubb cuffs) from scratch.

As a side note though, I've once seen a drawing of a device that covers a prison guard's key on all 4 sides, and "slides" upward as the key would be inserted into the lock, therby preventing any viewing of the key cuts by prisoners while the key(s) are dangling from the officer's belt. The key could not be "made by hand" from some scrap material and used for escape.
I have never been to prison, so I can not say if such a device has ever made it to correctional use, or if it was it just a prototype.

--Vince

Howy 30 Oct 2008

#36

I have seen three sided pivoting thin silver metal key covers (the fourth side was the key bottom - flat side of the key) used on the Folger Adam lever keys at the Federal Correctional Center in Lexington, KY.

This prison is listed on the National Historic Register and is the old BNDD narcotics hospital on Leestown Pike, near the KY Horse Park.

They also used a chain affixing the key rings to their person, both of which the OH State Prisons I have been in did not use.

I think that originally these metal key covers had springs to keep the key cuts hidden from view, however many of them would swing freely, even so the cuts were hard to see.

Howy
Cincy

P.S.
Their key used a different keyway than the A keyway on my Folger Adam jail lock.

The fasest way to rekey a jail/prison, using the Folger Adam lever system, is to change the "plug" in each lock and keep the same cuts on the new keys using a different keyway.

Edgeplay_Cgo 30 Oct 2008

#37

The use of key boxes or key guards is common in prisons. A f(r)iend told a story of an experiment done in a state penn where he worked. An old con, who was known to be a key expert, was shown a single Folger Adams key for a couple of seconds. He then went back into his cell, carved a key out of soap and hardened it using some process I don't know. The key worked. He did this in a couple of hours.

The guards were amazed.

michael.w 12 Sep 2012

#38

Hello i were looking for a chubb escort handcuff key ssamped UKDS8 on them do you still have any keys out there thanks mike