sachem1
#1The Forum at Handcuffs.Org
Bean Giant For Sale
35 visible archived posts · 35 preserved total · topic ID 2744
Atlanta*Casting
#2Everyone already knows.
Kevin Connolly
#3Thanks for letting us know. It should do well. Good Luck.
Atame
#4No, I didn't know it before. But now, I know the auction - thank you!
Best regards,
Guenter
Charlie Menke
#5Look closely at the high bidder pattern. The owner is bidding on his own items!
Kevin Connolly
#6I don't think so. It's not even close to suspicious to me.
Anonymous
#7Yeah, bidding on his own stuff, two grand worth.
Stick it up your butt, asshole. Face it, you just don't have the stuff to bid on such things. Bid on little two and three hundred dollar things, even if you can do that.
Atame
#8Gee, US $2,125.00?! That's by far the highest price I've ever seen for a Bean Giant. Even nicer ones, with markings and guarantee to be working were sold for much less in the past.
I am really curious for how much the next MacKenzie's will go!
Best regards,
Guenter
Bruce Thomson
#9There was a pair of Bean Giants on ebay that sold for somewhere near $3,000.00 a few years back - no famous associations or anything, just showroom condition.
Kevin Connolly
#10He's the Price Meister.
Dorson
#11If it is because most of the plating is intact that brings the higher price. Heck, I could take an old pair of cuffs in good shape and remove all the rust and have the darn things plated like they came from the factory. In fact, I have considered doing it with some cuffs that are more valuable.
Stan Willis
#12In my opinion replating a cuff decreases the value and does not increase the value. I have never seen a plating job that matches the original.
Stan
Ian McColl
#13Hi, I agree with Stan, having an old cuff replated doesn't increase the value. It might look nice but it's not the same. Both the plating techinque and the metals are different. New nickel needs to tarnish over several years to look anything like the old stuff.
I don't know how they plating cuff in the old days but now they hang them from wires in the plating baths and where pieces are close together like open bows agains the lock frome and around the wire, there is shadowing were the colour (correctly spelt with a 'U')is slightly different or not evenly plated.
Preserve history and only keep cuff clean, don't even polish.
Ian
Kevin Connolly
#14Correctly spelt? You're killing me.
Stan Willis
#15Next month the Queen is coming here to take back her country. Then we can go back to spelling color with a u.
Stan
bob
#16that's the trouble with most north americans, no sense of humoUr.....welcome to the club Ian, i have annoyed a few people on here with my spelling as well, good on ya sport!.
Stan Willis
#17In North America Ian should be spelled "Eeinn" to be pronounced correctly ???
Kevin Connolly
#18Bob
Nobody is annoyed here. We just think the spelling is quaint. Old, but quaint. That's better being than quiff.
Dorson
#19You are correct Ian, the older way of plating was not done with electric current but chemical or sometimes called if my memory serves me, Hard Plating. The problem with hard plating was that they didn't have a thin layer of copper plating to give better adhesion of the nickel or chrome.
Ian McColl
#20Stan I perfer 'Eon', odd thing is that it's a Scottish name which also means John and John also mean Ian, go figure. And I cannot work out if the 'H' is John is sounded like 'H' in Herb which we do pronounce out here (by order of the Queen).
Dorson, I remember copper being applied first with Chrome plating and Florentine bronze (brown finish) back in the 70's but were i get platin done now, they don't seem to do it. I find it strange that older cuffs could be asssmebles and then plated without shadowing but they cannot seem to do it now, (on certain finishes)
Eeeoon (with silent Z, zed not zee )
Franklin
#21Hi All:
Okay, don't try this at home.
Prior to electroplating, iron objects were nickel plated using the "friction method" (that is, rubbing the item with a rag soaked in the appropriate chemicals).
Step 1: clean the iron with abrasives to remove all oxidation, then wipe it down with alcohol while the iron is hot, causing the alcohol to burn off.
Step 2: lay down a layer of copper on the iron to which the nickel will adhere. 20 parts copper sulphate, 5 parts sulphuric acid, 100 parts distilled water. Here again, heating the iron helps a lot.
Step 3: with the copper plating in place, wipe down with a solution of 6 parts nickel, 3 parts tin, 1 part iron in 100 parts hydrochloric acid and 3 parts sulphuric acid.
Step 4: polish with pulverized zinc.
To increase the thickness of the plating, repeat steps 3 & 4.
This formula is from the 1907 edition of Henley's Formulas For Home and Workshop. A truly wonderful book containing thousands of formulas, including antiseptic dressings for the lips after operation for harelip and using permanganate of potassium as an antidote for snakebite from a cobra.
No home library should be without a copy.
Franklin
Steve Santini
#22Out there.
THANK YOU!!!
Great research,
Cheers. Steve
Ian McColl
#23Handy information and great research. Could you see this being done by hand for large factories at the time?
Eon
Steve Santini
#24For multiple items or deep crevice items back then there was the "nickel wash" (which had no electricity in it's earliest forms), and nickel silver dip which blended 2 metals to create a plating that lloked expensive but was prone to dulling in as little as 3 days.
Steve Santini
Ian McColl
#25Thanks for that Steve, if it's a liquid wash containing metal to be deposited, why isn't there any plating on the interior of old items?
I need a TARDIS.
Ian
lauher
#26Ian
What a great idea! With a Tardis my collection could include not just the best cuffs of the 19th and 20th century, but also nice selection of cuffs from the next millennium or two.
Joe
Unknown / guest
#27What is a tardis?
Steve Santini
#28I think the answer may be that the interiors are masked or plugged but I could very likely be wrong.
I am not a plating auhtority by a long shot.
The only reason I know about the plating methods I mentioned is because I know a lot of trinket items were done this way to be sold in the onboard gift shops of vintage ocean liners.
Perhaps these methods were not ever used with old cuffs but certainly the time periods intersect.
Cheers, Steve
Kevin Connolly
#29bob
#30time and relevant distance in space, TARDIS
Franklin
#31Ian:
I have a set of Rankin (Delestatius) leg irons that are definitely plated on the inside of the lock case.
As best I can tell, this plating is some sort of zinc/tin alloy, being rather dull gray in appearance. From the reading I've done about early plating, the original reason for it was not appearance per se, but to prevent rusting, what today we'd call galvanising and done with the "hot dip" method whereby the iron item is immersed in the molten alloy. In zinc galvanizing, the iron does not rust not so much because it's covered with plating, but that moisture is more attracted to the zinc which oxidizes rather than the iron. Even if the coating is scratched or slightly worn, the iron will not oxidize as long as there is sufficient zinc left in the area to be the primary attraction for moisture.
My guess has been that for this set of leg irons, they were probably intended for naval use around the time of the American Civil War (1861-1865); hence the reason for being galvanized.
Zinc plating has been around for centuries and was rather easy to do with wrought iron items; the little pits and irregular surface of wrought iron made a perfect textured surface to which the molten alloy would adhere; plus, the iron did not have to be spotlessly clean. Because of the chemistry involved, if you missed a few little spots it didn't matter since the item was still effectively rustproofed.
It strikes me that nickel plating, by any means more complex and difficult than galvanizing, was done primarily for appearance rather than for rust protection. My trusty copy of Henley's Formulas also describes the process for "nickel plating by battery" and the chemicals involved (including potassium cyanide) were even nastier than those used in the friction method. The advantage to so plating with a Daniell's battery (whatever that is) was that no layer of copper had to first be laid down on the iron; however, the thicker the coating of nickel, the greater the tendency for it to peel off. Not such a bad deal for cheap jewelry or trinkets, but not all that serviceable for handcuffs. So, when a durable surface was needed, you still had to plate first with copper, then apply the nickel.
Today, the term "nickel finish" (as oppposed to "nickel plated") is rather misleading since the item is usually plated with chrome which can be directly applied to the iron with better results than nickel.
Franklin
Ian mcColl
#32Thanks folks for your information and thanks Franklin for your input.
The Well's time sled is a superior looking machine ( the old one not the new one) but it could only go back and forth in time.
The tardis, (time and relative dimensions in space) can go anywhere and as it's bigger on the inside than on the outside, you could fit more cuffs inside. What a collection I would have and all at cheaper prices.
Eon
Anon456
#33Ahh, to be a timelord....
Franklin
#34As any good timelord will tell you, while you may visit, you may not transport any future or past being or object outside their particular time frame.
To do otherwise would shatter the universe.
Only knowledge may transcend the depths of time.
Ian McColl
#35Your last line Franklin makes us all timelords. With the network of friends who help with knowledge and their research info, we are all wiser, thanks to all who help here at Joe's most useful site.
Ian