The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Radner Auction

20 visible archived posts · 20 preserved total · topic ID 298

Chris Gower 20 Oct 2004

Seems to be no mention of this auction on the forum why??? Is everyone secretly hoping to go to Las Vagas and get a nice set of Harvard leg-irons at the bargain price of $5000-??
The auction to me seems very poorly organised, I have emailed them twice asking for copies of their catalogues which I am sure will be 'collectable' in years to come, I have also asked if there are reserves on the items but they do not reply. Lets face it the estimates on over half the items are rediculous (English Spelling!). However there are some exceptionally rare items including the TWO McKenzie Mitts and some interesting German cuffs. Is anyone attending the auction?
Chris

Stan Willis 20 Oct 2004

The Auction is now on ebay...all the items. There does not seem to be a reserve, other than the starting price. There is also a buyers premium, and you have to register with the auction company to bid. I know of at least 4 collectors who will be there. Be careful about buying items that were manufactured after 1926.
Stan

Joe Lauher 20 Oct 2004

I ordered a catalog, but it has not come.
The auciton is not that far away.
Has anyone received a catalog?
Joe

Joseph Fox 20 Oct 2004

I'll be traveling to the Las Vegas Auction with the following collectors: Mark & Sheila Cannon, John Bushey, and Mark Lyons. I believe Fred Pitella will be there also.

joe tanner 20 Oct 2004

IF THIS AUCTION IS LIKE MOST AUCTIONS I PRESUME THAT THE RESERVE IS THE BOTTOM VALUE ESTIMATE...IT IS FOOLISH TO THINK THAT THE AUCTION HOUSE OR RADNER FOR THAT MATTER ARE GOING TO LET ITEMS GO CHEAP...JOE

Mark Lyons 20 Oct 2004

I am only going because I heard that there is going to be lots of bargains!

Dorson 21 Oct 2004

I just went looking at the items for sale, and they are not letting them go cheap. In fact, they are inflated, and show that they really don't know what they are selling... I seen item descriptions that are not correct, handcuffs that don't work because part of the bow is missing, etc. These people have no clue but they want top caviar prices for low grade stuff... just my humble opinion of course...

-Dorson

Jeff Nese 21 Oct 2004

I just spoke with the auction house in regards to "Reserves" what they tell me is that there are only reserves on a few major pieces. Radner is 85 years old and has nowhere to put this collection let alone insure it any longer. His family does not want to deal with it and so it all goes to auction. Those estimates are just that, some are inline and some are not but it is just a guide....I am certainly going to consider going or at least bid online...The sign up process is pretty easy

Dorson 21 Oct 2004

Someone is not telling the truth here, I just went to ebay and read the info concerning the auction. Those are Starting bids, you can't go lower than a starting bid. Then there is the buyers premium, in this case it is 19% on top of what you pay... So if the winning bid is let's say $1,000.00 you also pay an additional $190.00 on top of that... When locks and handcuffs are about 5 times what they should be for a starting price, even if Houdini touched them... I wouldn't even consider bidding... IMNSHO!!!

-Dorson

Don 21 Oct 2004

#10

if Sid Radner Don't want the Stuff I'll Gladly Take it.

John Bushey 25 Oct 2004

#11

I was told the hidden reserve on items is 1/2 of the lower estimate. If prices go below that they may not sell. So, keep that in mind. Also, beware of many items. KNOW what you bid on. I know of at least one signature which, without a doubt, is NOT authentic. Also, it's obvious that the cuffs/keys cannot be truly authenticated. Very few cuffs can be 100% authenticated. What was Houdini's? What was Hardeens? Hardeen was said tohave run down the street, pick up some cuffs, and authenticate them. What was Sid's? Has Sid picked up no cuffs since he got all the stuff from Hardeen? There was much controversy with the Butterfields sale, and I would imagine there may be at this one too. As for bargains??? I think there is TOO much for sale at one time, between Swann's and CRG, and the recently completed Mastronet auction, so yes there may be some sleepers. Good luck to all. See you there. John Bushey

Don 25 Oct 2004

#12

anyone know for Sure if it is True about Hardeen Buying then Reselling the Cuffs. and if so what Happened to all of the Handcuffs Houdini Actully Owned.

larho01 30 Oct 2004

#13

I have followed the Radner auction live on eBay. The prices on all items turned out to be just crazy. How can someone pay $1900 for a ordinary set of Bean Patrolman or $2900 for a Marlin-Daley????? I can't imagine! Maybe they had visitors from other planets there in Vegas.

Looking forward to the report from the fellows on place.

/Lars

www.holstcollection.com

Jack Tanis 30 Oct 2004

#14

Dear Lars,

Visitors from other planets, those capable of extraterrestrial travel, would have too much intelligence to pay anything close to what the Radner auction realised.

Oscar Wilde defined a cynic as "a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." That definition is as valid today as it was in 1892. The Radner auction was a well-orchestrated exercise in cynicism.

For anyone interested in the results, here is where they are: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?M ... 500&sort=3.

Cheers,

Jack

larho01 31 Oct 2004

#15

Dear Jack,

Very well put! Can I join your fan club as well?

Cheers,

Lars

Jack Tanis 31 Oct 2004

#16

Dear Lars,

Consider yourself formally invited. After all, misery loves company, so the more, the merrier.

Cheers,

Jack

JOE TANNER 31 Oct 2004

#17

LARS & JACK, i believe that there is a web site for lovers & this isn't it.....just kidding!!!!!! WOW !!!! look at all the POINTS.. no disrespect intended as i respect both parties, but i have to say it.... all kidding aside, you both should be ashamed of yourselves....one would think that you are the CYNCS & in case you do not know, most non restraint collectors think restraint collectors are either very wierd or gay ( nothing wrong with being gay, if that is your thing )& wonder how could anybody collect such wierd items....by what you have stated, one would think that you & only you know the value of restraints.....in fact, why would YOU even pay $200. for a marlin cuff as the next person might think that it is only worth $50....does that mean you are stupid ??? i think not !!!!! darn, there are those points again....the prices that the items in the RADNER-AUCTION brought were because they supposedly had belonged to HOUDINI & not just because they were a handcuff.....i guess if you had the chance to buy the pair of handcuffs that were used on JESSE JAMES ( there are alot of them out there ) that you would only pay what you thought the old cuffs themselves were worth & not a penny more.....fine, but you should not get down on those who would pay more because of the JAMES factor....no, i did not try to buy anything in the RADNER AUCTION.... i already have BETTER DOCUMENTED items & i am not a true HOUDINI collector...sorry for ragging on...again no disrespect intended... i have never been one with the WORDS or gift for gab.....joe

larho01 31 Oct 2004

#18

Hi Joe,

It was not my meaning being cynic to the people who bought the cuffs at the auction yesterday. My excuses! I was just amazed about the level of prices which is connected to the "Jesse James effect". Its the buyers money and they decide how much something is worth, not me of course. What surprises me is that many ordinary items were paid many times the prices on eBay for the same cuff. What surprises me even more is that pretty common cuffs were in several cases at the same price level or higher than much rarer cuffs. Example; an English Darby set (probably Hiatt) was sold for $3.200 but the extremely rare Phelps was sold for only $2.900 and a Romer for $2300.

I understand many people think our hobby is a bit weird, so does my wife but she loves me anyway

Cheers,

Lars

Jack Tanis 31 Oct 2004

#19

Dear Joe,

First, let me extend my hearty congratulations to you for your use of lower case letters. I know this is not your custom, and so commend you for breaking from your routine

The "fan club" exchange between Lars and me was a bit of a laugh, referring to a different Forum post unrelated to Radner or Houdini.

It is an ironic coincidence that the words auction and caution are anagrams. When I see a Bean chain nipper -- from which even I could escape, and escape as well as anyone else alive, dead or yet to be born -- make $375.00, I see caution thrown to the wind. I also see that as bad for everyone, even persons unaware of the existence of the Radner auction or persons who could not care less about restraints, Harry Houdini or Jesse James.

I am about to get profound here, but consider it worth the risk.

As a social, interdependent, interacting species -- albeit not an altogether truly civilised one -- the degree to which humankind succeeds is directly related to the degree to which reasonable minds prevail. Reasonable minds require discretionary attributes and employ caution as a guiding force, e.g., "erring on the side of caution" tends to be more the asset than the liability. When so conspicuously and glaring swept away by the impulses, particularly by the misguided impulses, of the moment, no lasting benefit accrues to anyone. This is my perception of the Radner auction, and my criticism stems from that perception.

There are countless historical analogues, relating to greater events than collectibles auctions, to this, yet the principle is the same.

I hope I have clarified this matter somewhat, and not clouded it entirely.

Cheers,

Jack

joe tanner 02 Nov 2004

#20

LARS & JACK : who knows the whys & wherefores of what people & bidders do in auctions or in life for that matter... i see that ebay already is showing the aftermath effects of the Radner auction as Cannon's has put 1 of the items that he purchased at the auction on ebay...Go Mark Go !!! de ja vue for what Jack stated, i understand and people like Justice Ginsburg or Marshal or even financial wizard Greenspan would understand, but i don't know if most other people would....Jack i do not know what you do for a living, but you would make a great politician....replace the jackass's that we have...maybe you could replace someone on the supreme court...hell if i could i might even vote for you...take care...joe