Obvious shill bidding on rare German handcuffs BEWARE!

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

Thats a real shame! I hope that this shill bidding is not a new folk-sport of german ebay-seller. We had a discussion at the german board "Thomas Fesselforum" before a few weeks about a similar case. A famus seller of old expensive handcuffs was named there and they said that he has at least two shill bidders too. I do not want to name this seller, because they also said that we in germany could be accused of defaming if we don't have clear proofs of fault. I hope that these black sheeps are a minority and that there are still lots of fair and honest sellers.

Uli

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Is there a way to prove to E-bay that there is a shill system going on with these auctions mentioned?
Steve mentions the other bidders are not known for restraint buying, so I assume he looked at thier history already. I have a buying history that is all over the board, as E-bay has managed to showcase material in other areas of collecting that I have been looking for for over 20 years. Some common items I bought because (even with shipping) it was cheaper than going to the big box stores, and other items because I knew I better get while the gettings good.
I have recognized opponants in some bidding wars, and feel that sometimes they win and thats okay....
I have yet to win a restraint auction on E-bay. I lost out once on a magic related item that went for over $100. - less than a year later another one came up and it was mine for less than $20. In the time before the web, mail order catalogues meant phone the dealer right away to reserve the item, and take your chances that you may have received your copy later than someone else who already got a lock on the item.
I don't miss those days at all!

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Looking at the bid history and at least one bidders name I can agree with Santini's concerns. Since they have like 1 pair of shoes to their history, why would they leap to handcuffs that are (in Ebay price) close to a thousand dollars, why would these guys bid on almost all of the cuffs from this one seller? Why is one biders name similar to the seller, a series of letters and numbers?

I did put in a shill report just to make sure. It can't hurt.

I myself am getting off of Ebay for the exact opposite reason that Bruce mentioned. Ebay prices are outragous compared to working with an actual restraint seller.

Fred P. brought up a great point about when he bought his first pair of Bean Giants he paid $75 for them and thought that was an outragous price. Look at what a busted pair will get a person on Ebay.

I have a few restraint sellers that I trust. Unforunatly I lost one, the guy Phil is alluding to in the second post of this message. He didn't even try to make a sneaky name which really bugs me.

I do tend to watch a lot of buyers on Ebay including you Bruce it is how I find books to add to the EARL's listing. It is easier to follow someone who is looking to buy the book's then it is for me to track down the auction myself. I don't bid on them but it helps the EARL to grow.

Nuff ramblings,

Shawn www.ealib.org

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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I got the name wrong it is not Phil.

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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I don't know when Fred P. bought his first Bean Giants. But when I started collecting almost 15 years ago the dealer's lists certainly did not offer any for that price range. The closest ones would be over $400, and have non working buttons or similar problems. The mint ones were almost always close to or over $1,000.
At gun/antique shows, or dealer's lists, it is a one price system where first come is first serve. If no one else is interested its yours - at that price. If some one beat you to it too bad. Maybe, just maybe, the dealer has another pair or finds one in time for the next list. But the first pair already having been sold won't lower the price on the pair you are offered, even though there is one less person now looking for them. With auctions it is different, in that the bidding frenzy can push the price to an unreasonable amount simply because two or more people have deep enough pockets at the same time. My brother collects sports memorabilia, and some of the auction prices we've looked at makes me think that $3,500 for a Bean Giant is small change compared to what some people will fork out for a NHL game worn jersey.
Desire and funds can play havoc with the collectables in any area of interest. But patience can pay off too.

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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I forgot, Fred got the cuff in the 70's, bad example for my point. Still my point stands about Ebay bid prices. It all boils down to, how much you have and how badly you want them.

Shawn

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Hello all,

I, too, always got my best bargains beyond eBay. I guess, you would pull your hairs out if you know, how much I paid for my two Stotz handcuffs and the extremely rare Stotz leg irons. BTW: sometimes I think, there are only about one dozen handcuffs maniacs (me included) here at eBay and if we e.g. say "this interesting item is for Joe, the next for Stan, than comes Steve, the fourth is for Guenter, the fifth for Chris… " we would make much more bargains . But I fear that method is impossible to accomplish!

Regards,
Atame

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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The seller stopped the auction that I was bidding on so something is up.

Shawn

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Well, well, well....
As much as I hate to say it, it seems to appear that I was correct in my opinion of this seller. Not only did he stop your auction Shawn, but he also stopped ALL the auctions in which one of this shills was not the high bidder. So much better to do so than be stuck with a pile of worthless bids! It is really ironic, but just after I posted this to the board warning everyone the guy was using shills a collector named "Fred" e mailed me and lambasted me calling me a hypocrite and telling me I had no right to slam anyone doing anything dishonest when I myself contacted bidders and tried to end auctions early. Well, I told this person to post any objections he had about me on a public forum which he has not seen fit to do. Fact is, there are MANY high end collectors who have had dealings with me who have nothing but good to say about our experiences together. I would count among them Joe who owns this board, Mark Lyons, Stan Willis, and Shawn Ness but to name a few. Why I wonder should accusations about me come into play when all I was trying to do was save fellow collectors a number of dollars which would certainly have been leached from them by a dishonest seller. The guy has ended all his auctions except the ONE where the current bidder is NOT a shill. Gee folks, what does that tell you? I guess it says I may have been correct and any person speaking aloud about any matter but the one under discussion is obviously "distracted" to say the least. My reputation with high end collectors and my ebay feedback speaks volumes. End of story. Regards, Steve Santini

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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I found that very interesting as well and continues to solidify what you said. I was actually tipped off just seconds BEFORE I read you post here. I think I had mentioned that in an email. There was another person who had proof of this sellers dishonest reputation and wrote me this message:

Mastercuff1,

Be careful of this seller. He is not honorable. If you need proof email me & I will send it. Please use your mastercuff 1 in subject. You have a lot of money riding on this..

After reading that then I read your post.

Shawn

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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I have seen this on ebay before also, the nicks ring a bell and this seller should be exposed to ebay along with the shill's. I have warned buyers in the past concerning the the reproductions being sold as antiques of the darby pattern cuffs. In every case the buyers were glad to be informed because they had no way of knowing that the stuff was junk...

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Sorry, the anonymous message above is from me, didn't realise that I had to type in the info again.

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Hello all,

eBay does not like to deal with the issue of sellers cancelling their auctions, or of shill bidding, although both are violations of eBay policy. The former constitutes what eBay calls reserve fee avoidance.

These abuses occur frequently. Formerly, in non-reserve auctions, eBay gave the seller one, and only one, opportunity to bid in his own auction. It was a practise eBay should not have abolished, as it was done openly -- no trickery, no secrecy.

Personally, I find the worst and most irritating aspect of shill bidding and subsequent early ending of auctions to be the incredible amount of time these combined practises waste. That time adds up quickly when one considers all the legitimate bidders and potential bidders, multiplying that number by the fairly large number of auctions this seller had going.

I, for one, have far better ways to waste my time!

Take it all with a grain of salt, as what goes around, comes around...eventually.

Cheers,

Jack

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Hello Jack, good to hear from you, I've been wondering what you have been up to.

I'm a little confused as to whether your post was PRO Seller or PRO Buyer?

I personally would hate to be ripped off by anyone. This seller has several negatives (this was taken into consideration by me when bidding) but negatives can often be unclear. Seems the seller takes peoples money and vanishes for a while, so I was told be a former scammed bidder.

Who is to say that any of us would have gotten what we bid on. I REALLY feel sorry for the one guy left with the remaining auction.

OR who knows, the pressure that is on him right now, wheather actual or precieved he may follow through.

Take care Jack,

Shawn

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Gee, have a look at

<b>http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 2479964</b>

This guy also stole my picture of the GDR-handcuffs' timeline! And he stole my item description for "seller added the following information", too. But it's a shame how dilettantish he stole it, because it was my description for the very rare second model, which he used for his auction of the first model (non swing through) of GDR handcuffs!

Regards,
Atame

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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bad HTML... sorry!

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Hi,
I just noticed this seller offered all cuffs again on eBay.
Regards,
Cuffman

Hello all,
I hope Joe will let this message stay up because I think it is important for serious collectors to know what is going on concerning some rather rare German handcuffs currently offered on ebay. Those who cruise ebay no doubt are aware of a number of rare cuffs such as Horst pivot, Horst chain with serrated teeth, unusual aluminum folding cuff, Early Horst with non slip rotating blocks, etc. All of these cuffs and more are being offered by the same seller and all are due to close on Oct 27th. I myself am a bidder on a number of them but I will be withdrawing my bids on ALL of them in protest to an obvious shill bidding scheme that is in action. I am posting this here because Ebay no longer allows you to put in "Shill bidding" as a reason for retraction. Unfortunately, when I withdraw my bids I am going to be forced to claim "entered wrong bid amount" or some other untruth. If you will look at the list of bidders, you will see two bidders in Germany (where the seller is from) who are doing their very best to drive up the prices of these items. And yet it is obvious by past purchases that neither of these people are handcuff collectors. The user names of the two shills are whx123 and phanter100. If you take a look at how the bidding has been progressing, you will clearly see how these two bidders have been used to "bump up" the bids from serious restraint collectors. I don't know about any of you, but I for one am withdrawing my bids. I would have reported this to Ebay but judging by the apathy I have seen them demonstrate in the past I did not want to waste my time. I hope Joe will let this stay on the board until at least the end of these auctions. Regards, Steve Santini.

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Hello,

A ver batim of the complaint I filed with eBay tonight about this scurrilous, unscrupulous individual follows.
Report Transaction Problems > Selling Offenses > Seller ended listing early to avoid reserve fees

Reported User ID: bck12

Message: On 17 October -- 12 days ago -- this seller ended 21 auctions early. All had bids. Yesterday, 28 October, all 21 were relisted.

This is such a flagrant, blatant abuse, it is amazing eBay, including eBay.de, would even begin to tolerate such an outrageous practise, not to mention such an unbelievable waste of so many bidders' valuable time.

If this seller doesn't like the bids he gets, let him put a reserve on his auctions or begin them with an opening bid that will satisfy him, rather than the $1.00 opening bid he uses on each and every auction.

Here are 21 clear, unquestionable violations. Will eBay take the appropriate measures and enforce its own policies? Or will this be pardoned or otherwise overlooked as has happened repeatedly so many times before?

Incidentally, there was one auction this seller did not end early -- item 3632480600. Maybe that is because it closed at $3,383.33; it, too, was a non-reserve auction with a $1.00 opening bid. That is the final nail in the coffin that ending the other 21 auctions early were inexcusable violations of eBay policy. (It also suggests this seller is protecting himself through the use of shill bidders, yet that is more difficult to prove, whereas the proof of reserve fee avoidance is absolute.)