OnlyCuffsOnlyCuffsarchive search
The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Radner-Houdini Auction Errors

23 visible archived posts · 23 preserved total · topic ID 302
Original topic ↗Recovered images
Mark Lyons 24 Oct 2004
#1
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Atame 24 Oct 2004
#2
The "Deutsche Polizei" of Lot #062 is even an after war model, as it is marked "Schutzmarke Deutsche Polizei" and not "Deutsche Polizei D.R.Pat" like the (pre) WWII ones.

Not an anachronism, just a little mistake. In Lots #038 and #052 Tower Bean's Pattern where named "J.J. Tower, unadjustable handcuffs", although they have 4 locking positions. BTW: the cuffs of #052 seem to have been tricked for quick release – have a look at the last bow-tooth.

In Lot #099 they call the restraint "Extremely rare, French torture thumbkin" and say that they are used on prisoners during the revolution (I guess, they mean the French Revolution 1789-1794) for torture. IMHO this kind of restraint (I also have two of them in my collection) was used by the French Police in the late 1800s and even early 1900s, similar to the Italian Bagno handcuffs. And if it is more than 200 years old, would it really be so shiny or even nickel plated?

Regards,
Atame
www.atame.info
michael griffin 24 Oct 2004
#3
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Hi Mark: I thought I would throw in with this although it probably wont affect any bidders on the houdini auction. Years ago my friend would tell me that Jay marshall of Chicago used to laugh about Hardeen because whenever Hardeen would come into town and meet with the magicians he would ask to buy any of their handcuffs. The magicians would ask why because didnt he have them all? Hardeen would laugh and tell them that there is a kid in Holyoke who would buy anything Hardeen sold him as Houdini's (kids name-Radnor)

Also, several years ago in discussion with Radnor and Henry Mueller of the Niagra Museum I had some Houdini items for trade they let me know I could sell them and make some money or, that if they (Radnor and Mueller) sold them they would get 3 times the money because they could certify anything they wanted as Houdinis and owned the market.

Just my thoughts (can you believe I had any)
Michael
Joe Lauher 24 Oct 2004
#4
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Real or not, it should be fun to watch the auction proceed.

If anyone is going to the auction, I would appreciate a report for the website. We will be able to see prices realized on the web, but it would nice to have a first hand report from the scene.

And if anyone takes any pictures I would be glad to post them.

Joe
Mark Lyons 24 Oct 2004
#5
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Hi Joe,
I will be there for the preview and for the auction. I will be in good company as I am riding up with the Cannon Family, Joe Fox, and John Bushy. I will ask them to collaborate with me on a summary of the event on our drive back and will post it here.
I just got my new digital camera so I will take some pics and send them to you as well. I am confident that this will be a most memorable event. It is really nice to have a web-site like this so we can share our good times with all of you.

Michael, thanks for your reply and for the interesting insight to the Hardeen Collection. I look forward to receiving any more information about his acquisitions and hope some of the other readers can identify any other errors or discrepancies with the auction. I for one, would want to know about any problems with any of the items for sale before I lay down any money! m
Atame 24 Oct 2004
#6
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
I have seen that there are two nice McKenzies in this live auction. Now I think to remember that long time ago someone wanted to count the known McKenzies but I cannot remember the result. I know a total of 10 pairs:
- 2 at the Houdini auction
- 1 from Cyntia
- 2 owned by Stan
- 1 once won at eBay by koenigbjoern
- 1 once won at eBay by by vincula
- 1 once won at eBay by typrod
- 1 that eBay seller redbrass kept (winner could choose 1 of 2)
- 1 once won at eBay by mirage_uk

They often write of 21 known McKenzies – so who has the other 11?

Regards,
Atame
Mark Lyons 24 Oct 2004
#7
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Guenter,
Thanks for your expert documentation of the Stutzmarke ( I am sure that I misspelled it) handcuffs that are offered at this auction. I was not aware of some of that information and will record it for further use.
Regarding the McKenzies: I have a real nice nickle plated McKenzie but it does not have the waist chain. (anybody out there have an extra chain for sale?)
I know Stan Willis has a nickle and a black or blued one too. They are or were shown on his web-site and I believe he has a nice picture on his Guiness Book World record cd. I also seen one on eBay very recently. I know of another collector in New York who has a nice black one. I do not want to name him without his permission.
Steve Santini probably has one or two in his museum as well.
I wish mine were used by Houdini like the 2 being auctioned off. m
Stan Willis 24 Oct 2004
#8
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Hi:
I had the list of McKenzie Mitts, and my count showed 25 pair, including 2 that are more rust than cuff, and including the 2 in the auction, when they were at the Houdini Museum in Appleton. I know of 2 of the ones sold on ebay that were counted when the previous owner had them. It is possible that the others sold on ebay were also included, but i don't know who the seller was. That puts my count at about 28. I was asked by some of the people I contacted to not use their name on the list. I am happy to keep the list and add to it as I find McKenzie Mitts owners.
Stan
Anonymous 25 Oct 2004
#9
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
HI,
Here is my story on the auction. I sold Sid Radner item number 356 at the Appleton Magic Collectors Convention back in early 90's. I sold it to Sid and Tom Boldt. The item is actually a photoproof for the Kellock Houdini biography. They list it as a possible book by Gibson on Houdini/Hardeen. It's not. It's Kellock. 1928. Also, when I sold it to Sid it was NOT autographed by Hardeen. Interesting. In talking to the Auction people, I'm told that there is a disclaimer in the fine print of auction rules. All items were not Houdini's, but some were Hardeen's. So, this possibly could account for those cuffs patented after Harry passed on. We'll have to see which COA accompany what
when we arrive. See you all there!
Chris Gower 25 Oct 2004
#10
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
I have a set of nickel plated Mitts in my collection (see photos in Alex's Book). They are in superb condition but do not have the waist chain.
Chris Gower
Jack Tanis 25 Oct 2004
#11
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Hello,

From what I have been reading here, this seems like the perfect time to hold a seance to contact Harry and have him explain, from the Great Beyond, what's what. As it is, this auction appears more Who Done It? than it does Houdini.

Cheers,

Jack
Don 25 Oct 2004
#12
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Seems More like the Seances will be a Day to Late as the Auction is on the 30th and the Seance is on the 31st. i wonder how much Mr Radner actully bought that Realy Was Houdini's or did Hardeen Rip him off.
Chris Gower 26 Oct 2004
#13
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Seems to me Lots 126 & 127 are incorrect, says they are Lilly handcuffs of about 1890. As far as I know all Lilly handcuffs were of the rigid type and were probably only made up until about 1865?
Also notice Lot 376 Display Lobby Board. Seems to have a set of Guiteau Cuffs in it. Perhaps Houdini had several dispaly boards because from what I recall Wresch got the original collection which included the Guiteau and Wisner & Hoyt cuffs. These were subsequently sold in the early 1990's. So how many Guiteau cuffs exist???
Chris
Don 27 Oct 2004
#14
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
I'm going to Avoid the Auction. from the Sories i've Heard there seemed to be like a Ton of Stuff for the Padlcks Handcuffs etc. it seems like most of the stuff was already sold and this is the remainder. a few cuffs and keys and a few padlocks a bunch of posters displays and letters and as one person pointed out when he sold something. that it was not autographed at the time but it is now. did the person who autographed it come back from the Dead did they do a feat that Houdini has not yet Done. all i'm going to say is i think the prices are over inflated. and Please Buyer BEWARE.
Charles Chandler 28 Oct 2004
#15
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
I have a set of mitts, no belly chain.
mark lyons 28 Oct 2004
#16
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
I received my catalog today. I know some of you were concerned about getting your copy as there was some sort of delay in sending them out. I ordered mine about a week ago.
It is a nice quality book but there is quite a few pictures that were omited. The description asks to see the images on their web-site. I know that this is common in this sort of auction, but I think they are missing the boat when they do this. Some bidders might not view the web-site photos and subsequently do not bid high or bid at all. Why would any one bid on an item that they can't see? When one pays $35 for an auction catalog, I believe it should be complete with all photos. This is especially important if you were to win the item with the omitted photo.
The catalog has an interesting letter from Sid Radner in which he explains the reason for selling off the collection. m
Dorson 28 Oct 2004
#17
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Does something rotten in Denmark ring any bells....
Jack Tanis 28 Oct 2004
#18
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Hello,

The opening bids on the few lots I was watching -- emphasis on the past tense -- just went up 2 1/2 times, i.e., by 250%. Trust me, these are not "major" lots, meaning I assume the same has occurred to other lots.

True to form, eBay has exempted these auctions from the otherwise automatic revised description notice.

Are these persons totally clueless? (That is a rhetorical question, yet feel free to answer it all the same.)

Cheers,

Jack

JOE 29 Oct 2004
#19
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
IT SEEMS THAT MOST OF THE OPENING STARTING BIDS HAVE BEEN RAISED.....COULD THIS MEAN THAT THEY FEEL THAT THEY DO NOT EXPECT MUCH BIDDING ON THESE ITEMS, THEREFORE IF THEY GET THE MIN BID THE HOUSE WILL AT LEAST MAKE SOME MONEY.... IT COULDN'T BE THAT THE HOUSE HOPES NO-ONE BIDS & THEN THE HOUSE WILL END UP WITH THE ITEMS & SELL THEM THEMSELFS LATER.....IN RESPONSE TO CHRIS GOWER'S MENTION.....HE IS CORRECT, DR. WRESCH PURCHASED THE ORIGINAL HOUDINI COLLECTION & AS CHRIS KNOWS I PURCHASED THE COLLECTION FROM WRESCH.... THE GUITEAU CUFF OF WHICH HE SPEAKS OF IS ALREADY IN THE HANDS & OWNED BY A PRIVATE COLLECTOR & IT IS NOT RADNER OR MUELLER ...I STILL HAVE THE WISNER & OTHERS FROM THE HOUDINI-WRESCH COLLECTION.....JOE
seagold 06 Nov 2004
#20
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Well i would like to know how many items were won by internet bidders.It seems like they were blown away by the high prices. Speaking of high prices they charged me 117.00 shipping for 3 photos and a letter. oh well at least I ended up with something.
Jack Tanis 07 Nov 2004
#21
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
Dear seagold,

On the Forum thread http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?f ... 1099362303, I posted the eBay URL for the auction results. As it caused a disruptive horiztonal scroll bar, I sha'n't do it here as well. You may peruse the items to see which were won by Internet bidders and which were won by floor bidders. The latter are the vast majority.

It is routine for auction houses to charge excessive, exorbitant shipping fees. You did have the advance opportunity to enquire, though. Often when a prospective bidder asks how much shipping will be before placing his bid or bids, the house will commit to a substantially lower amount, regardless of whether the packing is contracted out. Live and learn.

Cheers,

Jack
Sharon Rodriguez Martinez 13 Mar 2006
#22
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
I still think it was kindof cool though. Hey if you did'nt like it it's great & no trouble kay.Respon back to me kay kay.
Edgeplay_Cgo 13 Mar 2006
#23
Hi Fellow Cuff Collectors,
As you know, the Radner-Houdini Auction will take place in Las Vegas in less than a week from now. Most or all items have been posted on the auction house web-site and on eBay as well. These items are going to be auctioned off and will come with a certificate of authenticity and signed by Sid Radner attesting to the fact that all of these items were used or were in Houdini's personal collection. The home page of the Auction web-site states " Over 1000 items personally owned by the most famous escape artist in the history of the modern world". From what I know, all of the items were inherited by Houdini's brother Hardeen sometime after Houdini died on Halloween, 1926. Eventually they found there way to Sid Radner and he put them on display in Appleton, Wisconsin which was Houdini's boyhood home. While I do not wish to say that Mr Radner or the folks putting the auction together are misleading any potential bidders, I would like to point out some errors that I would like to have a better understanding of and would like to open this discussion amongst you other collectors.

First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him. They were first manufactured just before or during World War ll ...almost 20 years after his death. Item # 42 is a set of Peerless handcuffs with a final patent date of 1937 stamped into it. While the Peerless was created in 1912, Houdini probably owned several pairs of these, but I do not know how he managed to get this pair. The German Schutzmark cuff # 62 is also of the war years vintage. How did he acquire them 20 years before they came out? Can any of you find other obvious errors similar to these dating problems?

Item # 102 has a similar and a different error. The auction item is for a pair of German Hamburg 8's and they come with an original box.....for the Foth Lock Co. in the United States. Foth was the successor to the Tower line and made the Union Hardware- Tower double lock cuffs just before the war.

Other errors that I noticed are:

Tower-Lion thumbcuffs are called McDonald's in this auction.

A groups of keys to be auctioned off are named as a collection of handcuff keys in item # 12c. In actuality, they are just padlock and cabinet keys.

I can guess that Theo (Hardeen) had a collection of his own and by the time Mr. Radner got hold of them and the ones from the Houdini collection, he was not able to tell who's was who's. Poor itemization or bad record keeping more than likely made these errors apparent in this auction. My intent is not to belittle the auction but I wanted to call attention to these problems so people can have a better knowledge on the items that they may wish to bid on.

I will be attending this auction and hopefully will make some buys. I would like to know if any of you can spot any other errors on the items and their descriptions and would be kind enough to post them here for all of us to learn from. Thanks. mark
Click to expand...
> First of all, since Houdini died in 1926, I do not
> understand how items #87, #112, and #128 which are
> Harvard leg irons could have been owned by him.

Well, Harry WAS a notorious follower of the occult!