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Can anyone identify these please.

21 visible archived posts · 21 preserved total · topic ID 3251

cuffman69 06 Nov 2009

Hi,

These cuffs recently sold on eBay. They seller lives in Bulgaria.

Can anyone identify? I can't see them on Stans cd but I may have missed them.

Thanks,

Mark (RMP)

stan willis 06 Nov 2009

They are NOT on my CD. That's why I bid on them, but i don't know who got them.
Stan

lauher 06 Nov 2009

I have not seen them before either.
I also bid, but did not win.
Joe

cuffman69 06 Nov 2009

I was lucky enough to win these cuffs. I had tried unsuccessfully for the Hiatt Bean cuffs which ended the day before so I'm glad I managed to get these. If there are any markings on the cuffs I'll post a picture.

For now they'll go in my unknown section.

Thanks,

Mark (RMP)

Paul 06 Nov 2009

They do not appear to have a lock as such. Maybe a pin through that hole to secure a spring mechanism???? Army green colour???

Steve Santini 06 Nov 2009

I saw these cuffs when they were listed and obviously, by the notches on the bows, they operate with a geared wheel locking mechanism. I have seen Hungarian cuffs with this same locking system.

There is something of a key slot/hole on the opposite side of them.

What I found very interesting is that the notches in the bow do not appear to go completely from one end to the other.

That would mean the cuffs would not be able to "swing through" as expected.

Very strange...

Steve Santini

holstcollection 07 Nov 2009

The seller stated that one side is locked. First I thought that the reason is that one side is double locked. Steve is right, there are no notches all the way and these cuffs can impossibly swing through all the way. They also look very crudely made, could they possibly be home made?? Very strange cuffs!!

Lars

Mick Hanzik 07 Nov 2009

It looks to me like the center "pointed" section is on a pivot. The rivet in the center looks like the pivot point. I don't think it is a geared wheel. The pivoted section I think has corresponding notches, to match up with the notches on the shackle. Therefore I think it is adjustable, possibly, by pressing the pivoted section in, under spring tension, until you reach the required wrist size.

Then it is locked with some kind of pin in the hole, as Paul has mentioned previously. I don't think there is any room for any kind of locking mechanism within the body of the cuff.

Could it possibly be a non-locking metal toy cuff?

atlanta*casting 08 Nov 2009

Maybe they are training handcuffs ...

Steve Santini 08 Nov 2009

#10

I don't think that the middle rivet in the lock case is a "pivot rivet" that allows the entire sandwiched part of the lock case held between the cheek plates to move. If you will take a close look at the outer edge of each lock case you will see a second rivet that would prevent the middle rivet from acting like a pivot.

Steve Santini

Mick Hanzlik 08 Nov 2009

#11

I see what you mean Steve. Still a mystery then....No doubt when Mark receives them, we'll find out more. Still not adjustable by the ratchet method though, due to the square teeth, so they would have been physically "fitted" before any locking was done, yes?

cuffman69 08 Nov 2009

#12

Ive posted a couple of extra images taken from the eBay listing for these cuffs.

I think Mick may be correct about "the center "pointed" section is on a pivot however I think they may pivot on the bottom rivet.
My theory is that they would have to be placed on the wrists and then the center "pointed" section would have to be depressed. This would engage with one of the notches on the bow. This could be desicribed as a double locking non single lock mechanism in as much as the cuff couldn't close any tighter once the "center "pointed" section" is depressed, if you get what I mean.

I think the rivet in the middle of the cuffs retains a part of the mechanism which is independent of the center "pointed" section but engages with it when the center "pointed" section is depressed thereby locking the cuffs.

The keyhole also appears to be upside down compared to Peerless style cuffs for example. There is a hole on the back side of the cuffs for the tip of the key to locate into and in the image below, you can just define this locating hole seen through the front keyhole on the top cuff and it appears to be at the bottom of the keyhole. This would suggest that the flag / bit of the key would have to point upwards to enter the keyhole and rotated to disengage the mechanism which retains the center "pointed" section allowing the cuffs to open.

When the center "pointed" section is disengaged I think the bows would be free to rotate 360 degrees. The problem with this design theory is that these cuffs would not be able to snap on as normal and if the center "pointed" section was to be depressed prematurely then the cuffs would have not be able to be applied without using the key to disengage the mechanism.

Mick , Steve or anyone do you think there is any mileage in this theory. Anyway hopefully all will be clear soon.

I agree with Lars that they are crudely made but maybe not homemade. I also think they look a little to secure and over engineered for toy handcuffs as the links appear to be welded. As for training cuffs its possible but I would think that a training cuff might be based on the same design as an actual working cuff.

Mark (RMP)

Steve Santini 08 Nov 2009

#13

That it is possible they work this way.

However, being that they are from a country where the workmanship seems to be crude I really have to wonder if they really operate with such an inspired and unique mechanism. To me at least this seems unlikely.

I also feel that given where they originate from they are likely not training handcuffs. Somehow I don't see this country having very much formalized training in cuffing let alone training handcuffs of a unique and singular model.

There is one other possibility and that is that if the centre section does indeed pivot as suspected that these cuffs were not for police purposes at all and are in fact something made up for escapology work that does not actually require a key to release them at all.

Looking closely at these more recent detailed pics I am beginning to wonder about my theory that they use a geared clog type wheel as a pawl to lock the bows. In these pics the rivet I had imagined was the middle of the clog wheel or gear is rather close in position to where the bow's teeth would pass so perhaps it is not a wheel at all. There may not be room for it.

So... maybe this rivet I speak of is just in place to position and retain a spring loaded single square tooth that meshes with the notches on the bow. This would seem more likely.

In this case they would not tighten on pressure. This would explain why one is locked and the other side is open. If this theory is correct, it would make them very unusual in fuction. Not only would the bows not swing through on being pushed in, they do not push in at all and the cuff needs to be adjusted to the correct tightness using the key.

One final possibilty remains. Perhaps the key unlocks them and then once unlocked the middle section of the lock case pivots just enough to hold the square headed spring loaded pawl down in the unlocked position. Kind of like the trigger on The Maltby. Now the bows would be just free swinging. When the cuff is applied to the proper tightness, the hand of the officer pushes down on the centre section between the cheek plates and the pawl pops up into position, instantly deadlocking the cuffs.

Time will out the truth.

Steve Santini

Steve Santini 08 Nov 2009

#14

It still seems very strange that the entire bow does not have adjustment notches going from one end to the other.

One would think you may encounter and want to arrest people with small wrists too.

A really unique cuff on many levels.

Steve Santini

MickHanzlik1 08 Nov 2009

#15

I think you are right Steve (and anonymous) The cuffs themselves look a little crude in their construction, so I don't think any clever key mechanism is present.

All these theories will be answered when the cuffs arrive with Mark, and no doubt he'll keep us all posted.

A really interesting topic.

cuffman69 21 Nov 2009

#16

They cuffs arrived from Bulgaria and some of the questions can now be answered.

There are no manufacturers marking on the cuffs which are quite crudely made yet I still don't think they are homemade,

The centre portion doesn't pivot which debunks my initial theory but they do probably hold the record for the most impractical locking mechanism in handcuff history.

Even though they look like a swing through design and even have the space between the cheek plates where a bow would normally pass through they cannot swing through at all.

When they arrived one side was "dead locked" and the other side was open and could not be closed. This at least allowed me to see how the mechanism worked.

I've added text to some pictures and hopefully it will make things clear for those interested.

pchg 21 Nov 2009

#17

what is that finish?

cuffman69 22 Nov 2009

#18

It's a gray paint finish a little like some of the Horst Moabit cuff have.

Anonymous 04 Dec 2009

#19

And your final conclusion is?

cuffman69 04 Dec 2009

#20

My final conclusions are:

1. Crudely but commercially made.

2. Probably eastern European possibly Bulgarian as they were acquired from there.

3. Possibly dating around 1950's to 1970's

4. Probably a contender for the record of the most impractical locking mechanism in handcuff history.

5. Probably not produced in any great quantity as a result of conclusion 4

If you or anyone can add any more possibles / probables to this list please free.

Thanks,

Mark (RMP)

lauher 04 Dec 2009

#21

6. A great addition to Mark's handcuff collection