Baker Cuffs

To respond to Joshua's untitled post...

"Well I know there is very little factual info on the Baker company. So does this change any previous speculation on the company. How many other swivel sets of cuffs are out there? Please post your opinions and info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

Thanks,
Joshua

My opinion only gained from books is...
Because of the very very few handcuffs and belts that appear with the Baker mark, it is probably safe to assume that they were
1/ not a big company, or
2/ did not trade for long, and
3/ not many examples survive

Nichols Book states that "William Baker of New Town Row, Birmingham is listed as a handcuff, leg-iron etc maker in the 1816-17 edition of the Commercial Directory".
That does not mean he only traded in those years. You had to pay to have your name in a directory. If he couldn't afford to pay or didn't need to find more work, he may not have bothered in other years. The ad in the directory is hard to refute. It is then debatable as to whether Baker actually made the items or was a retailer of them. I'd like to think that Baker was not just a retailer like Parker, Field and Sons etc and so whoever paid a such a large amount for this rare cuff is very lucky. I recently saw a Pape? nipper with his name stamped over the Hiatt mark. Nichols also mentions that examples of Baker, Hiatt and other belts are identical, only the cuffs are different makers and that the Prison Department may be responsible for adding the cuffs. The cuffs could very well have been old when added to a new belt. It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. I could not afford it!
Paul Davies

I noticed right off that the shape of these BAKER cuffs was different from other Darbies.

To respond to Joshua's untitled post...

"Well I know there is very little factual info on the Baker company. So does this change any previous speculation on the company. How many other swivel sets of cuffs are out there? Please post your opinions and info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

Thanks,
Joshua

My opinion only gained from books is...
Because of the very very few handcuffs and belts that appear with the Baker mark, it is probably safe to assume that they were
1/ not a big company, or
2/ did not trade for long, and
3/ not many examples survive

Nichols Book states that "William Baker of New Town Row, Birmingham is listed as a handcuff, leg-iron etc maker in the 1816-17 edition of the Commercial Directory".
That does not mean he only traded in those years. You had to pay to have your name in a directory. If he couldn't afford to pay or didn't need to find more work, he may not have bothered in other years. The ad in the directory is hard to refute. It is then debatable as to whether Baker actually made the items or was a retailer of them. I'd like to think that Baker was not just a retailer like Parker, Field and Sons etc and so whoever paid a such a large amount for this rare cuff is very lucky. I recently saw a Pape? nipper with his name stamped over the Hiatt mark. Nichols also mentions that examples of Baker, Hiatt and other belts are identical, only the cuffs are different makers and that the Prison Department may be responsible for adding the cuffs. The cuffs could very well have been old when added to a new belt. It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. I could not afford it!
Paul Davies

Click to expand...

They look identical to some of my older Hiatt darbies. Nice rounded bow with sweeping angle of the hinge and key hole to make a nice D shape. Very nice!

To respond to Joshua's untitled post...

"Well I know there is very little factual info on the Baker company. So does this change any previous speculation on the company. How many other swivel sets of cuffs are out there? Please post your opinions and info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

Thanks,
Joshua

My opinion only gained from books is...
Because of the very very few handcuffs and belts that appear with the Baker mark, it is probably safe to assume that they were
1/ not a big company, or
2/ did not trade for long, and
3/ not many examples survive

Nichols Book states that "William Baker of New Town Row, Birmingham is listed as a handcuff, leg-iron etc maker in the 1816-17 edition of the Commercial Directory".
That does not mean he only traded in those years. You had to pay to have your name in a directory. If he couldn't afford to pay or didn't need to find more work, he may not have bothered in other years. The ad in the directory is hard to refute. It is then debatable as to whether Baker actually made the items or was a retailer of them. I'd like to think that Baker was not just a retailer like Parker, Field and Sons etc and so whoever paid a such a large amount for this rare cuff is very lucky. I recently saw a Pape? nipper with his name stamped over the Hiatt mark. Nichols also mentions that examples of Baker, Hiatt and other belts are identical, only the cuffs are different makers and that the Prison Department may be responsible for adding the cuffs. The cuffs could very well have been old when added to a new belt. It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. I could not afford it!
Paul Davies

Click to expand...

I was thinking also Thompsons...

To respond to Joshua's untitled post...

"Well I know there is very little factual info on the Baker company. So does this change any previous speculation on the company. How many other swivel sets of cuffs are out there? Please post your opinions and info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

Thanks,
Joshua

My opinion only gained from books is...
Because of the very very few handcuffs and belts that appear with the Baker mark, it is probably safe to assume that they were
1/ not a big company, or
2/ did not trade for long, and
3/ not many examples survive

Nichols Book states that "William Baker of New Town Row, Birmingham is listed as a handcuff, leg-iron etc maker in the 1816-17 edition of the Commercial Directory".
That does not mean he only traded in those years. You had to pay to have your name in a directory. If he couldn't afford to pay or didn't need to find more work, he may not have bothered in other years. The ad in the directory is hard to refute. It is then debatable as to whether Baker actually made the items or was a retailer of them. I'd like to think that Baker was not just a retailer like Parker, Field and Sons etc and so whoever paid a such a large amount for this rare cuff is very lucky. I recently saw a Pape? nipper with his name stamped over the Hiatt mark. Nichols also mentions that examples of Baker, Hiatt and other belts are identical, only the cuffs are different makers and that the Prison Department may be responsible for adding the cuffs. The cuffs could very well have been old when added to a new belt. It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. I could not afford it!
Paul Davies

Click to expand...

For those who'd like to see the Birmingham Directory for 1816-17 as mentioned in Alex Nichols book, here it is. I hope it's big enough to read.
It shows William Baker, Griffin & Nichols, Hiatt T.

To respond to Joshua's untitled post...

"Well I know there is very little factual info on the Baker company. So does this change any previous speculation on the company. How many other swivel sets of cuffs are out there? Please post your opinions and info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

Thanks,
Joshua

My opinion only gained from books is...
Because of the very very few handcuffs and belts that appear with the Baker mark, it is probably safe to assume that they were
1/ not a big company, or
2/ did not trade for long, and
3/ not many examples survive

Nichols Book states that "William Baker of New Town Row, Birmingham is listed as a handcuff, leg-iron etc maker in the 1816-17 edition of the Commercial Directory".
That does not mean he only traded in those years. You had to pay to have your name in a directory. If he couldn't afford to pay or didn't need to find more work, he may not have bothered in other years. The ad in the directory is hard to refute. It is then debatable as to whether Baker actually made the items or was a retailer of them. I'd like to think that Baker was not just a retailer like Parker, Field and Sons etc and so whoever paid a such a large amount for this rare cuff is very lucky. I recently saw a Pape? nipper with his name stamped over the Hiatt mark. Nichols also mentions that examples of Baker, Hiatt and other belts are identical, only the cuffs are different makers and that the Prison Department may be responsible for adding the cuffs. The cuffs could very well have been old when added to a new belt. It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. I could not afford it!
Paul Davies

Click to expand...

Thanks Paul for posting this! I try to put a folder together for each cuff that I purchase that includes records, patents, location etc.. and this will be great to add to the Baker folder.

I do have a few questions that perhaps you could answer for me or guide me in the right direction. I see that Baker, Griffin & Nichols, and Hiatt are all desrcibed as being "c. makers" of which I assume stands for chain maker. My question is...you had mentioned that Parker and Field and Sons just being retailers....now I know these two companies were more relevent in the later 1800's. Can they be found on similar directories as the Birmingham directory and if so what is the description of their business? Is it likely that a handcuff/leg iron/chain maker only made the chains and not the cuffs and/or just supplied such? Of course I have a biased hope that it's not the case lol. I certainly would not ask you to do all this leg work, but if you could point me in the right direction perhaps I try and narrow the % of probability as it is likely I will never know for sure if Baker was an actual maker.

As always...thanks for great informative posts!

Joshua

To respond to Joshua's untitled post...

"Well I know there is very little factual info on the Baker company. So does this change any previous speculation on the company. How many other swivel sets of cuffs are out there? Please post your opinions and info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

Thanks,
Joshua

My opinion only gained from books is...
Because of the very very few handcuffs and belts that appear with the Baker mark, it is probably safe to assume that they were
1/ not a big company, or
2/ did not trade for long, and
3/ not many examples survive

Nichols Book states that "William Baker of New Town Row, Birmingham is listed as a handcuff, leg-iron etc maker in the 1816-17 edition of the Commercial Directory".
That does not mean he only traded in those years. You had to pay to have your name in a directory. If he couldn't afford to pay or didn't need to find more work, he may not have bothered in other years. The ad in the directory is hard to refute. It is then debatable as to whether Baker actually made the items or was a retailer of them. I'd like to think that Baker was not just a retailer like Parker, Field and Sons etc and so whoever paid a such a large amount for this rare cuff is very lucky. I recently saw a Pape? nipper with his name stamped over the Hiatt mark. Nichols also mentions that examples of Baker, Hiatt and other belts are identical, only the cuffs are different makers and that the Prison Department may be responsible for adding the cuffs. The cuffs could very well have been old when added to a new belt. It is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. I could not afford it!
Paul Davies

Click to expand...

As I understand it "&c" is the old way of writing etcetera - etc, so they were not chain makers although they may have made chain as well. they were definitely hand cuff and leg iron makers.In the Census' from the era a chain maker was listed as such unless they also made horse harnesses &c. birmingham directories usually only list local business, but i did find Parker & Field in a Harrod & Co 1866 Directory from another County which listed London Retailers it was listed as Parker, Field & Sons (and Contractors). I think the (and contractors) is very telling.
Paul