Is this a real ball and chain ?

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

The seller has another one which looks better to me. At least it has a swivel. I'm no expert but I'm usually skeptical of any ball which has Yuma or Leavenworth or Alcatraz etc stamped on them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-LEAVENWORTH ... 5887da1a93

All the ones I've seen lately including Joshuas and one that sold last August look cobbled together and use split links and odd chains. The Tower catalog does not show round link legiron style chains as in the listing Nils has highlighted. Also the link looks welded to the ball in the one Nils has shown.

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

It's hard to tell, as all the photos are unclear, but the staples all look to be electrically welded.

I'm somwhat dubious of all items stamped with prison names, as there has been so much fraud, there. These are not the type of items that would be casually stolen by a guard or other staffer. I mean, really, who would want a ball and chain? Other than us of course.

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

It might say something like "Texas State ..." - University.

The double chain is strange. Maybe it was made from a defective set by a local sheriff.

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

PAUL & all others who are learning about restraints ::::: the ball & chains with ANY names -- prison or otherwise are MODERN MADE UP & were NOT used by prisons etc etc...... as to ball & chains having DIFFERENT & various chains on them accept them as GENUINE as long as ALL of the work done is/was hand forged - blacksmith done from the LOOP that goes into the ball & ALL different chain connections to the shackle & including how the shackle is/was attached..... it is a KNOWN fact that prisons STILL used B&C'S well up into the 1940's & some into the 50's..... it is also a know fact that prisons - chain gangs & way before that would ADD lenghts of WHATEVER chain that they had to make the B&C longer for working purposes.... also a known fact that prisoners escaped or tried to by cutting the chain, therefore a shackle or chain & shackle had to be put back on.... they would do this generally in the own foundry...... joe

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

Fishy is correct Nils, the chain lenghts don't match and the lock case on the tower has 2 holes drilled into it. The second one looks fishy too...

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

I might be a stickler for detail, but unless the ball and chain looks identical to ones shown in a catalog they could have been made anywhere by anyone. Does the fact that a ball and chain was made and used in a prison make it GENUINE - I'd have to say YES. Original - NO. Provenance then becomes the issue.

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

Paul- I can't speak to prisons but my former agency, a large Sheriff's Office, used to make corrections pieces as needed. If a 10 prisoner gang chain was needed our staff would make one. As you say--- really used yes----original no. I think it is/was pretty common to re-use and or make up what ever was needed especially by the larger agencies.

Damon

Hi everyone,

most of you will have noticed this ball and chain on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TEXAS-STATE ... 5192f74e5a

Something feels fishy about this one. I just can't put my finger on it.

Any comments?


Nils

Click to expand...

VINTAGE TEXAS STATE PRISON BALL, CHAIN & LEG IRON

== $177.50 + shipping

--------------------------------------------------

VINTAGE LEAVENWORTH PRISON KANSAS BALL, CHAIN, LEG IRON

== $224.72 + shipping



The "Leavenworth" is the one I would have picked if bidding. I would then remove the

markings from the ball that I believe were put on not by the prison.

The chain on this one looks to be just over 3 feet in length and not the usual 6 feet.