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John Thompson Snr & Jnr Timeline

20 visible archived posts · 20 preserved total · topic ID 3608

Paul davies 15 Jul 2010

As you will see John Thompson senior and junior were Locksmiths/handcuff makers from around the 1830's until around 1900.
With around 70 years in business they would have made a few cuffs. John senior died sometime between 1861 and 1871.
John junior never married and I assume that was the end of production when he gave up or died.
It appears he lived at his mothers shop in Vauxhall Rd in 1871 and 1881.

1841 Census
Northumberland St, Hamlet of Duddeston, & Nechells, Aston, Birmingham
(adult ages were rounded off to nearest 5 years in this census)
John Thompson 25, Locksmith (born c 1813)
Eleanor Thompson 25,
Mary Thompson 5,
John Thompson 2. (born 1839)

1851 Census
30 Duke St, St Peters, Birmingham
John Thompson 38, Handcuff maker
Ellen Thompson 39,
John 12, blacksmith,
Clara 1.

1855 Directory
John Thompson hand cuff and dog collar maker Court 4 Batholomew St

1861 Census 4 Court Bartholomew St
John Thompson 48, Locksmith, St Peters, Birmingham
Ellen Thompson 49,
John 22, unmarried, Locksmith.

1871 Census 45 Vauxhall Rd, Duddeston, Aston, Birmingham
Ellen Thompson, Widow 59,
John Thompson 32, unmarried, Locksmith, Birmingham
Jane Thompson 16

1879 Directory
John Thompson hand cuff manufacturer Court 4 Bartholomew St

1881 Census
Sweet shop, 45 Vauxhall Rd, Duddeston, Aston, Birmingham
Ellen Thompson, Widow 68, haberdasher & shopkeeper
John Thompson 42, unmarried, Handcuff maker, Birmingham

1891 Census
4 Court, the void, 52 Bartholomew St, Birmingham
John Thompson, 52, unmarried, handcuff maker
Eleanor, mother, widow, 79

1895 Directory
John Thompson hand cuff manufacturer 4 Court Bartholomew St

Dorson 15 Jul 2010

Very interesting Paul!!!

paul 15 Jul 2010

Forgot this address.
So it seems the Census address is the home address and the Directory address is the business address - make sense.

1850 Directory
John Thompson, handcuff maker
Court 9, Coleshill Street

LK 15 Jul 2010

so are u saying that the common thompson marked darby's found here in the U.S. used during the civil war were imported ? allways thought the small stamped thompson's were americian made! could there be both? i do know their is another type thompson darby but the spelling is different no" h " i think tompson 1

LK D~D

Paul D 15 Jul 2010

I have no knowledge of Darbies made in USA except Providence, and I cannot enter that long running debate with any authority. All I can do is present the facts as i see them. Joe L will tell you, as he's written here, that they are British Darbies. The only other Thompson darby I know of is T.E. Thompson of Calcutta, who no doubt imported them from England. It is hard to change long held views. I'd like to see some American research to show that the same cuffs were MADE in USA.
Regards
Paul

lauher 15 Jul 2010

Some of the older books say that Thompson handcuffs are American. But there is no evidence that they were made in Amercica other than the fact that many of the cuffs have turned up in this country.

It seems most likely that John Thompson of Birmingham England simply exported many of his cuffs to this country.

In a similar manner Froggatt handcuffs seem to be easier to find in US. I think Froggatt was also a major exporter.

Joe

LK 16 Jul 2010

YES I SEE! LOOKED FOR PATENTS AND FOUND NONE,GUESS I JUST ASSUMED IT FROM OTHER READINGS, COULD HAVE BEEN THAT THE THOMPSONS AND FROGGETTS WERE SENT TO THE CONFEDERATES AS ENGLAND SUPPORTED THE SOUTH DURING THE CIVIL WAR ALTHOUGH VERY LITTLE(NOT ENOUGH)

LK D~D

LK 16 Jul 2010

thank you for the directory info , as i have a thompson marked #10 with orginal key also marked #10, your directory know makes it my oldest marked restriant in my collection, i believe!

LK D~D

Paul 17 Jul 2010

Hi LK,
you raise an interesting question. Was there ever a patent for a standard Darby. If not, then anyone could and did make them almost exactly the same. As for dating your British Thompson, it could have been made as recently as 1895-1901 or as early as the 1830 when John Thompson Senior was in his 20s.
If only we could time travel and find out who these guys were apprenticed to, to learn handcuff making. I assume Thomas Griffin Hiatt learned from his uncle Thomas Griffin, but who else did?
Paul

LK 17 Jul 2010

#10

it would be nice to go back,as to the time of mfg. i would think that if we could prove the different marking that appear at different times that might set a presidence ,like for intence take towers with the dates last date would indicate it was made before the next patent date,on others like say frogett some just say frogett others say frogett,have a number stamp and say hard,
still others have that and also warantted wrought.i only have the one set of thompson's so i can't compare it to others, mine has THOMPSON in very small case letters , a very large 10,on one cuff only ,on the other HARD small case but larger then the word thompson. does anyone else reading this have a different set of markings??????

Kelly Logan 18 Jul 2010

#11

I own a pair of handcuffs that are marked "Thompson Ward" on one cuff and "Best 31 warrented" on the other. Does this add anything to the debate on approx date and place of of manufacture. This particular pair have been in the family for at least 70 years to my knowledge and were perhaps "used" on a cattle property in NW Qld- Australia. I have the original key marked with a capital "T" as the only mark beside the key chain hole on the key

Kelly Logan 18 Jul 2010

#12

Hi, does anyone know if photos can be added to this forum.I cannot see anything that might allow it, but there may be a way, please!!

atlanta*casting 18 Jul 2010

#13

Yes, you can upload photos in your forum post.

Join Photobucket for free. then upload your photos from your PC there, you can then post the URL of the photo into your forum post here.

PaulJDavies 18 Jul 2010

#14

Hi Kelly,
I suspect your cuff says Thompson, HARD - not WARD, BEST and Warranted Wrought. To the best of my knowledge, - BEST being quality of workmanship, Hard and Warranted Wrought being quality of the steel. I don't know that it helps to date them. Personally I like to see very small lettering stamped on the cuffs about 1.5mm high on higher quality darby cuffs.
Paul

Paul D 19 Jul 2010

#15

My silly mistake. Warranted Wrought refers to iron not steel. Thanks for pointing it out. I will leave that for an expert to explain if they wish.

LK 20 Jul 2010

#16

DO U HAVE A URL FOR THE FREE PHOTO BUCKET??

LK D~D

Anonymous 20 Jul 2010

#17

http://photobucket.com/

Edgeplay_Cgo 20 Jul 2010

#18

My silly mistake. Warranted Wrought refers to iron not steel. Thanks for pointing it out. I will leave that for an expert to explain if they wish.

Not necessarily. There are two general uses for the word "wrought," and they both apply to us.

The material, wrought iron, is a form of iron made (wrought) by hammering hot pig iron (cast iron) to drive out much of the carbon. The hammering process introdces the characteristic grainy texture to wrought iron.

The second use of "wrought" is as the past tense of the verb "wreak" or "work." It generally implies that something was formed with tools and effort.

The term "WARRANTED WROUGHT" implies that the cuffs were forged, not cast. Apparently, those "cast iron" cuffs so commonly mis-described on eBay may have once existed. I suspect they all broke.

The term "HARD" indicates that the cuffs were wrought from steel, not wrought iron, as steel can be hardened and iron cannot. It also implies that they were somewhat expensive, as steel was quite an expensive material before the Bessemer Process brought us cheap steel in the years following 1855, and good steel was still expensive up through WW-II. Really good steels, still are.

LARRY KOEWING 20 Jul 2010

#19

very informative info, if u please repost as a separte post, then i think it would be easyer to access it from the search minue with a title of" WARRANTED WROUGHT" thanks

LK D~D

Dennis 20 Jul 2010

#20

Done.