The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Real Ball Cuffs or Fakes?

38 visible archived posts · 38 preserved total · topic ID 3771

Mark Lyons 19 Oct 2010

Ran across this one and I can't tell if it is the real thing.
After seeing 2 real ones in Belgium recently, I would like to have one for the collection one day.
I just can't tell if Pakistan is churning these out now.
Any help is appreciated.

Mark
O--O

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-KECREK-KUNO ... 3f04188250

Anonymous 19 Oct 2010

Hi Mark--I would want to see better pictures of the cuff. Looking at other items he is selling, there is another cuff listed with the same picture and listing information with a buy it now price. He is also selling the cheap thumb cuffs from Indonesia.

I would think more than twice before buying.

Ron

holstcollection 19 Oct 2010

Hi Mark,

There are two similar cuffs listed and they look too crude to be
LIPS Darby cuffs. I'm quite sure they are just another paki crappy.

Best, Lars

handboeienfreak 19 Oct 2010

hi

i just think so
they are the real deal

best

patrick

Dorson 19 Oct 2010

As good as I am spotting the Pakistani & Indian crap, this is borderline as the pictures don't show enough. Email them and ask for better pictures, also go check his past sales to see if they have sold them before.

handboeienfreak 19 Oct 2010

hi
take a look at my lips ball darby it is simulair to the one on ebay

and put a indian key with it for comparison

best

patrick

Unresolved image reference ↗

Anonymous 19 Oct 2010

Unresolved image reference ↗

Damon Shields 19 Oct 2010

It is hard to see on the ebay photo but the real ones have a knotch right at the end of the bow the ebay cuff doesn't. The angle between the hinge and the bow on the ebay version seems different from the real ones.

The ebay offering has a very poor picture so who knows.

Damon

DutchConnection 20 Oct 2010

Another look on an original Lips Ball Darby; the one in my collection. Note: the key is a replacement.

I did notice the seller is from Indonesia, wich is not a strange place to find a pair of Dutch made handcuffs at all! It is a fact that about 100 years ago Lips Ball Darby handcuffs were send to the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) for use by the local police and colonial troops. It is also not impossible that small numbers of these handcuffs have been manufactured in Bandung.
Too bad the picture on eBay is a bit small; however I think these handcuffs could be original.

Anonymous 28 Oct 2010

#10

hi

who won these ebay action???

best

patrick

handboeienfreak 28 Oct 2010

#11

sorry

last post is from me

Damon Shields 28 Oct 2010

#12

I emailed the seller and asked for a better picture. All I got was the same picture a little larger. The seller has sold three and as two more on ebay so he has had at least five of them.

Damon

Ron Spitz 28 Oct 2010

#13

Five of them, really very rare.

Ron

handboeienfreak 29 Oct 2010

#14

hi

for what i can see in the larger pic is that it is an original ball darby from lips
but that he has 5 pair is a little bit unbelieveble

here in the netherlands they are really rare
and you will not found them often
and is you have one with an original key then you have to pay big money for them
and so you can see in my pic i have one in very good condition
it is hard to find one in such a good condition

best

patrick

DutchConnection 03 Nov 2010

#15

It is a fact that Lips Ball Darby's are rare and the information on them is very poor.
However it could be possible that some kind of small stock has been (re)discovered by the
seller or someone else. As mentioned before: Indonesia was a Dutch colony until 1949.
By the way, the original pair of Ball Darby's I own, also comes from overthere...

Damon Shields 03 Nov 2010

#16

So far the seller has sold eight of the ball darbies. Quite a find!(if they are real!)

Damon
ushandcuffs.com

Michael Busch 03 Nov 2010

#17

Hello,

I thought I give it a try and bought one of them. I have dealt with this seller before and he was reliable. We will see what comes in the mail...

Best,

Michael

DutchConnection 04 Nov 2010

#18

@ Michael Bush: keep us all updated

handboeienfreak 09 Nov 2010

#19

hi

I want to say that the lips balldarby are real
today i received the pair i bought

here are some pics

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED THEY ARE FOR SALE AGAIN
I ONLY WANT TO PROVE THEY ARE REAL

if you are interested to buy a nice good working set of lips balldarby

so mail me your offer

best

patrick

Unresolved image reference ↗

Paul Davies 09 Nov 2010

#20

Glad to here you say they are real. I took the gamble and bought a pair. My only worry now, as I wait for them, is that he seems to be selling more pairs than he claimed he had! It will be interesting now to see what they sell for.

Paul Davies 17 Dec 2010

#21

I am a gambler, and as suspected they never arrived and no response to the ebay claim. I now see sumatraseller is trying to sell them under a different name - bungapagar. Beware.

Michael Busch 17 Dec 2010

#22

Hi everyone,

I received my cuffs a few days ago, and I am quite happy with them.

Best,

Michael

CuffmanBelgium 17 Dec 2010

#23

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive but I doubt I will ever see them.

Paul Davies 17 Dec 2010

#24

I'm glad you got yours Michael. I've waited 7 weeks and Indonesia is only a short fishing boat trip from Australia! Oh well, you win some , you lose some.

holstcollection 18 Dec 2010

#25

I also haven't got my set, shipped more than four weeks ago.
Maybe it's time to claim PayPal for refund.

Lars

mark lyons 19 Dec 2010

#26

Hi,

The cutoff for me to file a claim will be 12-25-10.
I filed a claim today stating that the cuff has not arrived but I believe the seller is honest and has mailed them some time ago.
If the item arrives soon, I will end my claim. If I never see them, then I will have the claim working for me.
I hope and believe they will come fairly soon.
For those who ordered theirs from this seller, can you tell me how long it took from payment to delivery?
Thank

mark
O--O

handboeienfreak 19 Dec 2010

#27

hi

my took 4 weeks from payment to delivery

and at this moment i'm waiting for my second pair
i let you all know how long that one take from payment to delivery

best

patrick

Mark Lyons 19 Dec 2010

#28

I just received the following from my seller.
I believe he changed eBay names due to the negatives he has been receiving.

Dear cuffs,
I apologize for this situation, I have been getting negative feedback for late delivery of the other buyer, and I am very disappointed. all this is not my fault, and I am very confident you will receive your goods, I really hope your patience. thanks
regards
sumatraseller

I will keep you posted if/when they show up at my door.

mark
O--O

CuffmanBelgium 19 Dec 2010

#29

At least you got some reply Mark. I opened my claim a couple of days ago and he didn't react to that yet so I wonder what to expect.

Peter

Damon Shields 22 Dec 2010

#30

Just a reminder. I believe you only have 45 days from the date of purchase to make a claim with pay pal. Don't let emails of promises put you off. Make the claim and you can always cancel it.

Damon

Paul Davies 22 Dec 2010

#31

Mark,
he didn't get negative feedback until after he changed ebay names, so he is not being truthful.
If your cuffs don't arrive within 45 days after paying top dollar for the postage - claim and give honest feedback.
Neg feedback can be removed if the cuffs arrive.
Paul

Edgeplay_Cgo 22 Dec 2010

#32

I'll pile on and remind you about the 45 days to file a PayPal dispute. If you miss that deadline, PayPal will not help you. If you funded your PayPal with a credit card, you can still do a chargeback under their rules, but if you do a CC chargeback while you have a PP dispute open, PP will immediately close the dispute. But your CC probably gives you more time, so it's safe to let the PP process run its course. They are quite good at Items Not Received.

You may have more rights under your CC agreement.

Mark Lyons 11 Jan 2011

#33

Mr. Handboeienfreak,

Can you please tell me what you know about the Ball Darby cuffs?
How do we know that they were manufactured by LIPS?
When were they made?
Who used them?
What amount were they worth 3 or 4 years ago? I believe I heard one go for $700.
With the current seller offering these on eBay, he has singlehandedly lowered the value down to $100. How many were known 3 or 4 years ago?
Do we know what an original key looks like?
There seems to be a slight variation which occurs in the swilvel.
One is smooth and resembles a football (american kind)while the other has a pronounced lip or ridge around the middle. Might this be an indication of when the cuff was made. Maybe the ridge type came first and it was easier to make the smooth one....or vice versa.
And last but not least, I think the current seller has or had at least 25 of these. Has anyone heard how he got them?

Thanks to any and all who can provide answers.

mark
O--O

handboeienfreak 12 Jan 2011

#34

Hi

2 years ago only 8 pairs known of 2 in museum collection
and 6 in private collection
i nkow of one what is sell more than $1000
in very good condition
the one in my collection is one of the most good condition
and i know where another good one is (say no name unless the one that want)
if you go to the treat padlocks and cuffs you can see a pic i post there
with the original key
i know only 4 original key of it at this moment
what i understand is that there was a prison in indonesia
at this moment they break this jail down and they found a box with handcuffs
it is sure that lips made these cuffs
i saw a ducument in poor condition and hard to read
and in old dutch language but for sure that lips made these cuffs
later they need cuffs in indonesia and they ship the cuffs to indonesia
what most with this things they copy this cuffs at license from lips
the seller really do not know what he is got
but i'm sure he read this form

hope this info wil help you

best

patrick

Anonymous 12 Jan 2011

#35

This is Patrick's Ball Darby.
It is in very good condition.
The ones coming from Indonesia are the same with some slight variations and a very heavy patina.
I questioned their being made by LIPS because LIPS has always turned out high quality products and these cuffs certainly are not made with much precision.
It is a nice petite cuff but not what one would expect from LIPS.

mark
O--O

Paul Davies 12 Jan 2011

#36

Mine never arrived from Indonesia and I got a refund from PayPal, because the seller did not respond.
Paul

handboeienfreak 12 Jan 2011

#37

Hi

Mark

my lips ball darby is in very good condition and of very good quality
the cuffs from indonesia are just from less quality
also the locks bolts and key are from less quality
the original lips who are made in the netherlands are much better quality
only the indonesia cuffs where made under licence of lips
that is also the document what i'm talking about what i have seen

sorry i have no copy of that document but know it excist

hope this info is helpfull

best

patrick

Ron Spitz 12 Jan 2011

#38

There are two sellers of the cuffs from Indonesia. They are the same person. He changes accounts when there are problems with buyers.

If you do business with him and he changes accounts for email communications, and you are having problems, inform eBay/PayPal of this change so they can monitor the communications traffic to determine who is a fault and if you tried to work things out with the seller. He may also email you directly, save all correspondence.

A while back, I purchased the thumb cuffs he sells. I thought they were misrepresented by picture and description and wanted to return them. After many emails and a complaint to eBay, he changed account for correspondence. He finally offered to refund the price only if I left him positive feedback to which I answered that I was under no obligation to give him feedback.

I returned the cuffs and was surprised when he finally refunded the purchase price and the postage.

Ron