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Houdini Handcuffs and Leg Irons on Pawn Stars Tonight!

80 visible archived posts · 80 preserved total · topic ID 3905

The Amazing Michael 17 Jan 2011

Hi all, yesterday I saw an advertisement for tonight's episode of the hit television series, "Pawn Stars". Tonight, there will be a pair of Darby handcuffs and a pair of Darby leg irons that someone is claiming were used by Harry Houdini. I could only see a glimpse of them and they look genuinely old. I can't wait to see this one!

Cheers, Mike D~C/

The Amazing Michael 18 Jan 2011

Well, I seen it and I wasn't impressed. I was surprised to see that Mark Lyon was replaced as their go-to guy with handcuffs. I won't spoil it for anyone but I would love to hear some opinions about the so called "expert" who consulted on the cuffs. I will say this; if this guy is an expert in this field, I have lost faith in the other so called experts they consult in areas I know absolutely nothing about. You will see what I mean when you watch this episode.

Cheers, Mike D~C/

Anonymous 18 Jan 2011

Did it look like one of the cuffs were broken and then braized with some sort of brass or bronze?

Damon Shields 18 Jan 2011

Here is a photo of the cuffs from the show -poor quality picture but you can see what appears to be a repair on the leg iron. The letters of authenticity were from the Las Vegas auction. Maybe those that were at the auction can recall the leg irons.

Damon

Houdini's Mother's Ghost 18 Jan 2011

This "appraiser" named Murray was horrible!
He actually called this style cuff "Darcy" instead of "Darby" which ANYONE in the cuff collecting world would know. This instantly tells me that he is a novice handcuff appraiser and should not have been the one to to the show. He has been a magician for 25 years, but this fact does not make him anywhere close to being an expert on cuffs.
He never asked for the seller to produce the Certificate of Authenticity (golden colored cards) which would have come with each cuff and was signed by Mueller and Radner.
He should have come prepared with the auction catalog from the 10-30-2004 auction and tried to match up the cuffs with the item number on the paperwork. The prices realized list should have been factored in as well.
His figures which I will report later on are also too high. He stated that combined, the cuffs were worth about $10,000. McKenzie Mitts barely went for that.
The leg ion had been repaired, and a bad job at that. I know no one who would pay $5,000 for a repaired Providence Tool Leg Iron even if a picture of it is in the catalog.
This Murray also stated that "Houdini had a key to every lock in the world as there are only 102 to 105 different locks in the world"
I am not sure if he means HANDCUFF locks or ALL kinds of locks.
Very disappointed by this Murray's evaluation!

Houdini's Mother's Ghost 18 Jan 2011

I forgot to mention:
They showed how the key opens the lock and it was stated that "even if Houdini had the key, he wouldn't have been ale to open the cuffs"
Also, this Murray (if he knew much about darBy cuffs) should have explained that prison guards were called "Screws" due to the fact that the keys are screwed down to pull back the threaded locking bolt in the cuff.
This fact always makes the conversation more interesting when one discusses darBy cuffs.

HMG

Mark Lyons 18 Jan 2011

I too, am not pleased with this episode.
As having been the resident appraiser for 3 handcuff segments, I am saddened by this attempt to appraise these cuffs. This was an important episode and the facts presented should have been much more accurate.

I never heard of Murray before and am surprised that he was chosen over me to do this segment when it is apparent that he has never heard of Darby cuffs before. I was not even asked to do this show.

This episode was particularly important as the title was called Houdini's Handcuffs and should have contained some valid facts about Houdini, the Providence Tools cuffs that were featured, and the Radner Auction.

In the segment, Murray tells the story of how Houdini is challenged to do a wooden crate escape by a hardware store. Then he goes on to say that Houdini's assistants (Collins?)break into the hardware store at night, replace the long nails in one of the panels and substitute it for much shorter ones. Houdini then just knocks the board out with his elbow. I believe the escape could have been done with such a technique (have not read that chapter in Patrick's book yet), but I highly doubt the story about breaking into the hardware store.
I would like to see some discussion about this. If this is not true, I would be disappointed that Murray is starting or perpetuating a rumour on a show that is watched by millions. On the other hand, he may have caused a discussion that keeps the Houdini name alive.
On a cursory search of the Radner Auction book, I have found only 1 Providence Tool cuff and that is for a handcuff (Item number 23) and it came without a key. I have not seen a Leg Iron yet. If there was one in there, it should be with a key.

I agree that Murray should have shown the Radner book along with the closing prices and the Certificate of Auth.
Any appraiser doing an appraisal of an item that is the title of the show owes it to the show's producer, the viewing public and the cuff collecting community to to a thorough and complete appraisal!

mark
O--O

Ron Spitz 18 Jan 2011

I agree with all the above posts. There is a set of Prov. LI's listed in the catalog but no picture or mention of of a repair. It was lot #113 with key.

The guy selling these "Joe" looks familiar but I can not place him. Murry is a local magician and I've seen him on some TV programs.

All in all it was a poor segment. The store "bought" them for $7000.

Ron

John Cox 18 Jan 2011

Saying Houdini's assistants would "break into" the challengers shop was pretty shocking.

I'd like to do a follow-up story on my Houdini blog about this. Can I quote you guys? Can I use names?

Or, if you'd like to write up your assessments/reviews for me, I will post them in full. I'd like to get the real experts on the record out out there.

John Cox 18 Jan 2011

#10

I've prepped a story using the posts of Houdini's Mother's Ghost, Mark, and Ron. I'll put it up later today or tomorrow. If you guys DON'T want to be quoted, post here or shoot me an email. Thanks. Good to hear from the experts on this.

Joseph Fox 18 Jan 2011

#11

I AGREE with everything posted above...Murray, the "appraiser" was a joke.
The things he said will falsify history, and will be taken now by viewers as "fact".

Murray (Sawchuck) is well-known in the magic world for the past two decades.He was "America's Got Talent" last year, and was featured on VH-1's "Celebracadabra" reality series. Plus many, other TV programs. He was even on the dating show "Love Connection" (which, if you saw -he'll never live down).

Murray is a talented magician-illusionist & consultant...but nowhere in his career was he an escape-artist or handcuff collector. I doubt he ever even held a pair of antique shackles in his handcuffs previous to the filming of the episode.

It was quite clear (to me) that he was reciting a memorized script, not having 1st-hand knowledge about anything he was stating (as stated above, his mention of "DARCY" cuffs - clearly showed he was out of his element).

Murray is an excellent SELF-PROMOTER (as any professional performer should be)---his appearing on the above mentioned TV shows - is proof of that.
He doesn't give a DAMN about Houdini or handcuffs - nor should he---his goal was to get featured on a popular national TV show - and he accomplished that.

Don't be surprised if he pitched the whole idea to the producers: Have some guy (shill) come in with "Houdini Handcuffs"..and then have me called in as an "expert". The Producers bought the idea and went with it.

Yes, I hated his segment and the twisted lies he stated...but, admire him for his promotional skill, and blame the Producers who hired him, and "green-lighted" the segment.

It's Reality-TV: These programs are mostly scripted and/or edited in ways to create stories & drama. This program is full of hired actors who bring in the items too.

Making such statements as: "Houdini had every single key to every lock in the world" and "In the early 1900s - there were only 105 keys made for every lock in the world" alters history and gives the impression that Houdini's career can be blown-off simply by the fact he had hidden keys, requiring no skill to escape(with no mention of Houdini's truckful of lockpicks & hand-made tools that he traveled with & used).

Bring back Mark Lyons.

Hopefully this episode will be forgotten in a few months.

Mark Lyons 18 Jan 2011

#12

Hi,

A poor segment is an understatement!
When I did my episodes, I treated it very seriously and made sure that all my info was accurate. I consulted with several people in order to be properly prepared. This preparation took a sizable amount of time.
I wanted to look good not only to me but to the show, to the store itself and as a reference tool for anyone in the viewing public to use.
Most of what I had to say was edited out but all I stated was factual.

I feel very attached to this show, for obvious reasons and really feel that putting Murray in there for an important Houdini piece, was a mistake. I won't say that I could have done a much better job, but I know that I would have done it differently and utilized the resources that I had available to me.
Maybe I am too serious about this and realize that this is just entertainment but as this topic is near and dear, I would have liked the outcome to be as close to the truth as possible.

Ron, Yes #113 would be the item on the show if it is indeed from the auction.
I do not recognize what the paper they were using as documentation is.
I remember receiving a receipt for my purchase after the auction ended but I do not recall it saying or identifying anything about the cuff like their example clearly showed. I no longer have this but
I think it was just a receipt that showed the date, item number and amount. The certificate of authenticity contained info about the cuff. Does anyone have any paperwork that resembles the one on the show?

I tried to find Murray's name on the credits, but I did not see it. When I went to slow-motion mode, a status bar appeared and blocked the names scrolling in the bottom left, so I had to go to regular speed. After a few attempts, I concluded that his name does not appear.

The ending of the show has Chum Lee locked up in the cuffs while Murray and Rick go to the back of the store for something. They leave him stranded in the cuffs. I think a better ending would have been to have Murray help Chum Lee escape under a cloth or something, since he is a magician.

I can't find my prices realized sheet. Can any one answer what itme #23 and 113 sold for?

mark
O--O

Mark Lyons 18 Jan 2011

#13

Wow Joe,
Thanks for your vote and support!
I would have loved to have done that segment but nevertheless, it is what it is.

John,
I have no objections to being quoted here or on any other forums.
Please provide a link as I do not believe I am familiar with it.

mark
O--O

Joseph Fox 18 Jan 2011

#14

Just for the record---the name "Murray Sawchuck" DOES appear in the closing credits (under the "Thanks to...") text.

Ron Spitz 18 Jan 2011

#15

If anyone knows how to contact the Producers of the show (Mark?)you should send them a link to this Forum thread. They might be interested in the comments by those with some knowledge of the subject.

Ron

John Cox 18 Jan 2011

#16

Thanks guys.

http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2011/01 ... stars.html

Maybe I'll post a link on the Pawn Stars Facebook page.

Ron Spitz 18 Jan 2011

#17

I found a link and sent a comment about last nights program to the network and included a link to this thread.

Ron

MICHAEL LEE 18 Jan 2011

#18

Great more Mis-Information

MICHAEL LEE

Shawn Ness 18 Jan 2011

#19

I was going to ask if it was Sawchuck as it seems like the sort of thing he would do, having not seen the episode. Joe Fox, as always, in on his game.

Sawchuck is a good magician (mainly magic with CD's being his forte) and, as Joe pointed out, very good at self promotion.

I met Murray years ago and he never gave an inclination of knowing anything about handcuffs, escapes or even Houdini, beyond the basics. Based on that I believe Joe hit it on the head.

houdinisghost 19 Jan 2011

#20

In addition to everything said in the previous posts, there is the problem of the provenance. Neither of the gentlemen who signed the provenance knows much at all about handcuffs--and certainly not as much as Mark Lyons. If the certificate that says these were Houdini's is all the provenance these cuffs and irons have, then, the most that they can be appraised for is what they would sell for in their condition with no connection to Houdini at all.
If the provenance went into some detail, that might mitigate things a little, but, Henry and Sid did not give us any history, just their word that the cuffs and shackles were Houdini's.
Well, maybe somebody with money to throw away would pay 10,000.
Or maybe that's what the only pair of "Darcies" in the world is really worth.

Bruce Thomson 19 Jan 2011

#21

There was a repeat episode tonight that showed a couple trying to sell a tricycle rickshaw they claimed came from a Siegfried and Roy show in Las Vegas.
I wonder why they didn't have Murray come by to validate that one!

Dorson 19 Jan 2011

#22

I just watched the segment and was not impressed. So many things in the Sid Radner Collection are suspect. I remember seeing items claimed to be Houdini's and the stuff wasn't manufactured till after his death. I wonder why they were hiding some of the name and address info on the paperwork. I think Rick made a poor buy in my book, because someone might buy them and if they did, and found out that it can not be directly linked to Houdini, then there would be a mess.

-Dorson

The Amazing Michael 19 Jan 2011

#23

Alright, you guys saved me a world of writing.....thanks. I agree 100% with Houdini's Mom's ghost, Mark, and Joe. The whole thing was absurd!!!

I think it would have been a great to see Mark appraise these cuff since he was at the auction where they were supposedly bought. I think that with a little research, Mark could have tracked these cuffs down somehow. I, for one, would have remembered seeing them at the auction for a couple of reasons......1, they are Prov. Tool Darbies (unique among other Darbies), and 2, the repair on the leg irons sticks out like a sore thumb! This pair alone is very identifiable!!! I am sure that someone in our community has a photo of these cuffs if they are from the Sid Radner Auction...I remember seeing all kinds of photos from this event. Maybe this is worth digging into???

Anyway, Murray is an idiot and had no business on the show. Everything he claimed was BS. He gave away some trade secrets (sort of) on national tv. He gave Escape Artists, Magicians, and Houdini a bad name. IMO, he should be beat with a pillowcase full of Darcy handlecruffs and craig irons. =)

Cheers, Mike D~C/

michael griffin 19 Jan 2011

#24

Re: sid radnor and houdini handcuffs
for what its worth many years ago i had some mechanical picks for sale i had been in discussion with coperfields people as he wanted to buy them, i wasnt happy with the deal so i declined. I wanted to trade for some items at the houdini musuem in niagra. I had several lengthy talks with the owner mueller and radnor. what they said left a very bad taste in my mouth.
They said if you (me) sell them as houdinis it wont carry the weight that items being endorsed by us would, They told me verbatim,,,if they buy something and put thier certificate on it, then all of a sudden its beleved to be legit
I was a bit taken aback to say the least

Dorson 19 Jan 2011

#25

Michael Griffin, I couldn't agree with you more! Frankly, they didn't give a damn, they figured the public are a bunch of clueless idiots who don't know anything. There integrity is non existent, and I only saw a small percentage of stuff that had no doubts because of documentation from other sources that it was the real deal.

Maybe someone should point it out to Rick from the Pawn Stars shop to the thread(s) that went on at the time as I remember there were many doubts back then.

-Dorson

Michael Busch 19 Jan 2011

#26

Here a picture of lot 113 of the 2004 auction. Unluckily rather small.

Best,

Michael

Ron Spitz 19 Jan 2011

#27

It's hard to tell from the picture even when enlarged and some color work done on it. The left cuff looks like it might have a repair. The pair on the show looked like they were in better condition than this pair. Again, it's hard to tell.

One thing I was wondering about--would Houdini use or even keep a pair of cuffs that had a repair as large as the one in the show? I doubt if Providence Tool cuffs were a rare item in those days.

Ron

Mark Lyons 19 Jan 2011

#28

Michael,
How did you get that picture?
Did you save all pictures from the auction when it was available online?
I was going to do that but it never happened.
This would be a very handy resource if you have them all.

Mark
O--O

Ian Mccoll 19 Jan 2011

#29

Hi Mark, send your email address and I have a copy of them too.

Michael Busch 19 Jan 2011

#30

Hi Mark,
yes, I think I have all pictures of all the lots. The problem just is that they are so small.

Do you need any of them?

Best,

Michael

Joseph Fox 20 Jan 2011

#31

keep in mind...

There may be no evidence that the Prov. Tool shackles featured on Pawn Stars were actually from the Radner Auction...or that Rick REALLY purchased them for his store.

(again, this is show-business: Reality-TV...not everything is as portrayed)??

Mark Lyons 20 Jan 2011

#32

Thanks, you guys.

Is Ian's as small as Michaels's?
Between the two of you, who has the largest?

I would love a set of pictures, but I have no urgency about it.
I am grateful to you for sending them to me.

Mark
O--O

email address provided in blue.

Kevin Connolly 20 Jan 2011

#33

Who's the largest? Send me pictures? That's disgusting!

I'm going back to the Houdini Forum.

Steve Santini 20 Jan 2011

#34

How many pawn shops even buy the type of ultra rare stuff that comes into Rick's shop?

A: None

Pawn shops buy stuff they know they can quickly resell and make a buck off of.

Not rare pre Columbus nautical instruments, hot air balloons, Paul Revere silverware, etc.

Anyone that believes even part of the ultra rare stuff that walks into that shop when it is being filmed is actually for real and not set up by the producers is very gullible indeed.

In the real world people owning super rare items that could be worth a goodly ammount of coin rarely ever take them to a pawn shop.

They usually list them with a big name auction house.

S.S.

Ron Spitz 20 Jan 2011

#35

It show bus pure and simple. The whole bit is staged. I would hope that the information given by the "experts" is as factual as possible. A show can be entertaining and informative at the same time.

Do I think they bought the cuffs--NO, the mitts--NO. It's a good story and being "The History Channel", I would expect factual information.

Ron

Bruce Thomson 20 Jan 2011

#36

There was similar speculation over the Antiques Roadshow having 'plants', perhaps what will happen is that once the show gets a bit higher in popularity they will start to auction this stuff online at a 'Pawn Stars' auction site. The show's association with the items could spawn a whole new collectors market.

Steve Santini 20 Jan 2011

#37

No way!!!

I cannot count the shows they have done on ancient tortures and judicial punishments that are riddled with B.S., incorrect facts, and utter nonsense.

A modus operandi with such shows is to get some PHD from some university on the show to offer his or her "learned" comments and the viewers naturally assume that since the person is highly educated they actually know what they are talking about.

Wrong.

Thing is, that supposedly learned "expert" on the show usually has no particular skill in the area being discussed and was often culled merely because they agreed to be on camera for very little money.

Happens all the time.

S.S.

Mark Lyons 20 Jan 2011

#38

Unresolved image reference ↗

Ian McColl 20 Jan 2011

#39

Enlarged, it does appeared to be repaired.

?t=1295501127

Unresolved image reference ↗

Mark Lyons 20 Jan 2011

#40

Ian had the case cracker!

I was able to view this item number 113 from the Radner auction and this Prov. Tool Leg Iron (DarCy style) DOES have the brass repair on it.
Thank you Ian!
I am not able to present a larger photo as yet, but I am working on figuring out a way to do so.
This Murray seems to be a very good magician and has an impressive resume.
I think he was very fortunate that the Darcy leg iron had this repair done to it because it confirms, with little doubt, that this item was indeed from the Radner Auction and IS # 113. If it were a Prov. Tool in average or above average condition, it would have been almost impossible to verify that it came from the auction. All in all, his authenticating that this item was Houdini's was right on and he deserves credit for calling it correctly. (Minus the absolute provenance and lineage of ownership and brings up the Houdini to Hardeen to Radner enigma)
The key shown in the episode is NOT the key that came with the leg irons, so one has to assume that the owner of the 2 Darcy's picked up a key somewhere.
I may even suggest that these cuffs, at some point since 2004, were combined with other cuffs in a collection due to the fact that finding a key for these would be very rare unless you are involved with cuff collecting.

I recall that during the auction, a cuff (Harvard?) was offered and represented as a Houdini item. It was reported to the auctioneers and then to Radner that it was impossible for Houdini to have owned this item because by the time the first cuff came off the production line, Bess had already attended several séances trying to contact her beloved husband from the grave.

Thanks again Ian for preserving history. Your photo library helped in solving this small query.

mark
O--O

Unresolved image reference ↗

houdinisghost 20 Jan 2011

#41

How does that provenance make those Providence legirons Houdini's?
There is no evidence whatever those irons can be traced to Houdini.
Nothing, zippo, nada.
They might have been Houdini's, but, the provenance is meaningless.
Was this the Butterfield auction?
That auction included about 20 verifiable Houdini or Hardeen cuffs or locks.
If, by chance, any of the other thirty or forty "Houdini" handcuffs in that auction was Houdini's, there is no verification, no history. And if you start tracing them: Nugent to Wresch, Wresch to Tanner, Tanner to Muller and Radner, any connection to Houdini disappears from most of those cuffs, locks and legirons.

Ian McColl 20 Jan 2011

#42

Re: Houdini Handcuffs and Leg Irons on Pawn Stars Tonight!

Mark Lyons 20 Jan 2011

#43

"I think he was very fortunate that the Darcy leg iron had this repair done to it because it confirms, with little doubt, that this item was indeed from the Radner Auction and IS # 113. If it were a Prov. Tool in average or above average condition, it would have been almost impossible to verify that it came from the auction. All in all, his authenticating that this item was Houdini's was right on and he deserves credit for calling it correctly. (Minus the absolute provenance and lineage of ownership and brings up the Houdini to Hardeen to Radner enigma)"

Dear Departed Death Defier,

I am NOT saying that these Providence Tool cuffs WERE Houdini's!
I am stating that I am certain that they are #113 from the Radner auction.
It is an enigma due to the fact that on one hand, you have a protege of Hardeen claiming that they were Houdini's, and on the other hand, there is NO valid documentation to support that claim....other than his word.
The enigma grows as the provenance of the Providence goes back in time.
Almost everyone would agree that Radner owned them.
An unknown probability exists whether Hardeen owned them or not. If he did;
Then a further unknown probability exists whether Houdini claimed them as his.

Unless an old photo of Houdini with these cuffs can be presented, I agree these cuffs can never be said, with any degree of certainty, that these were his.
They very well could have been and they do have a better chance of being righteous than one being offered by Joe Blow, a seller on eBay. Even IF they actually did hang on the wall at 278 West 113th Street, proving it will be extremely difficult or impossible. (Isn't it ironic that Houdini lived on 113th St and these cuffs are #113?) Maybe that is the proof we are looking for!

mark
O--O

houdinisghost 20 Jan 2011

#44

"(Isn't it ironic that Houdini lived on 113th St and these cuffs are #113?) Maybe that is the proof we are looking for!"
Sure!
A better solution might be to contact Sid Radner and ask him to tell you everything he knows about these Providence Tool cuffs. He owned them for something like 60 years if indeed they came from Hardeen.
If this is from the Butterfield auction, problems as to authenticity abound.

Mike NY 20 Jan 2011

#45

Back in 1994, I found myself on an airport shuttle to the International Brotherhood of Magicians convention in Orlando, Fl. Across the aisle, I saw Jay Marshall, who was a prominent magician (and "Dean" of the Society of American Magicians). I naturally introduced myself and discussed a variety of things including my lifelong desire to acquire an authenticated set of Houdini handcuffs.

Jay proceeded to tell me that he had an acquaintance who was a contemporary of Hardeen, and that Hardeen was "looking to buy up" any handcuffs, from any source, because he knew of someone who was willing to pay a bundle of money for "Houdini handcuffs". Jay's lesson to me was that no one could guarantee an authentic Houdini handcuff unless it is a "one of a kind" or unless there was some photographic proof as mentioned earlier in this thread. Needless to say, my desire to acquire Houdini cuffs is no longer on the top of my "must have" list.

My intention is not to discredit any collectors from the Hardeen chain (in fact, I hope their cuffs are real Houdini cuffs; maybe Jay's friend was mistaken his Hardeen account?). Rather, I add this story in support of the claim that it is virtually impossible to authenticate Houdini handcuffs based on affidavits and letters alone. Sometimes, such proof is all that is obtainable, even for real Houdini items, however it is not 100% reliable.

Anon456 21 Jan 2011

#46

I personally think the whole thing was staged with a script as someone else has mentioned. I think it came from a private collection and was loaned out to do the that segment. The reason the name and address was blurred out on the documents was for the reason to not merely protect the privacy but who actually owns the cuffs and who they were sold to. Us collectors would have picked up on the fact that it is possibly one of us or who would know who the collector is and there story would be busted. As they say, BUSTED!!!

History Channel Viewer 21 Jan 2011

#47

I have not heard this sort of serious discourse since I attended last years COMICON Convention in San Diego! But seriously folks, I am acquainted with the producers of the hit TV show Pawn Stars. Previous segments featuring handcuffs rated lower than they had expected. I know that they have been wanting to make the show more appealing to adult male viewers. You know, the type of guys that watch football and other sports. Murray was considered a good fit for this type of a show and it appeared to boost ratings. He is a fine gentleman! If this object were appraised on a different program, such as the Antiques Roadshow, a CERTIFIED appraiser would have been used. So C'mon Guys, calm down, take a chill pill, and remember its ONLY entertainment.

Ian McColl 21 Jan 2011

#48

It might only be entertainment but even the Titanic movie has distorted history and because of poetic license, Houdini died in the WTC.
Truth should be truth.

Ian

Dorson 21 Jan 2011

#49

Entertainment! Exactly that and sometimes facts and truth get waylaid-ed in the process because it is scripted & edited reality TV. Sad part is, it is about ratings and money...

MICHAEL LEE 21 Jan 2011

#50

WoW ! Ian Houdini died in the WTC ? I was always under the impression that Bess Nagged the Hell out of him & he Just killed himself .

Hmm ...This is news !

Rumor also has it that Bess killed him for bidding on a broken pair of Darcys ?

John Cox 21 Jan 2011

#51

Wait, you're saying Murray is the reason this handcuff episode was better rated? Isn't it possible the name HOUDINI is what did the trick?

Jack.Tanis 21 Jan 2011

#52

Hello,

I don't watch Pawn Stars unless someone recommends a specific episode, which is what occurred here. Generally, the show is disjointed and contrived. That said, apart from the "darcy" gaff, and within the show's limited context, Murray seemed to me a par for the course, or average, consultant. I imagine him hoping the episode resulting in some paid performances as a magician. The closing sequence of the assistant being handcuffed and left to his own devices was amusing if predictable.

There was a recent episode no one has mentioned. A fellow brought in a pair of plug 8 handcuffs, without the key or the plug, which the pawnbroker handled himself; i.e., no outside "expert" was consulted. Not horrible, not wonderful. The pawnbroker had -- by being given, I suppose -- the basic facts. The rest of the segment was the typical improvised hyperbole. For anyone who wants to catch the episode up, it's the one in which the shop buys an helicopter.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

Mark Lyons 22 Jan 2011

#53

Hi Jack,

The plug 8 episode was done with my input. I was not on camera for that shoot, but they did use my research in appraising that partricular item.
My name does appear in the credits.
This was the first episode that I was involved with and the Mitts and ball & chain episodes were filmed directly after the plug 8's.

I feel bad if they are saying that when I was on, the ratings were not as they expected. I tried hard to give them a good show by sticking to the facts and giving out truthful info.
I guess if I went "Hollywood", and embellished what I know,I would have been invited back.
Well, I had my 15 minutes of fame, anyway!

mark
O--O

ps Thank you Ian for the Radner pictures. They are great!

Mark lyons 22 Jan 2011

#54

After 52 blogs on the subject, I think the Euro collectors are twisting their hair wondeering what this is all about.
Here is a link so you can see what seems to be the talk of the town.

http://www.history.com/shows/pawn-stars ... -handcuffs

Like it or hate it, it is worth the time to watch it.

mark
O--O

handboeienfreak 22 Jan 2011

#55

Hi Mark

it is not possible to watch this video in the Netherlands
the comercial in front i can see but then it stops and a red line
shows up with the words not avaiblle in your country

best

patrick

CuffmanBelgium 22 Jan 2011

#56

Same problem here in Belgium

Jack.Tanis 22 Jan 2011

#57

Dear Patrick & Peter,

You have not missed much. To paraphrase Churchill, "Never in the course of Forum posting have so many written so much about so little..."

Dear Mark,

That you were involved in those three segments, albeit not on camera for the plug 8 cuffs, and that two of the three episodes containing those segments ended in sight gags (the ball & chain being dropped on and smashing the display case glass top and the assistant being handcuffed and left helpless) shows further how "scripted" the show is. All television shows are scripted to some extent, even talk shows and news reports, but it can require additional off-air information to tell what that extent is. It seems Pawn Stars, just like any run of the mill pawn shop, is, to quote Frank Zappa, "only in it for the money." That's show biz. Anyway, not everyone gets his or her 15 on national television, so congrats and on to bigger and better things.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

Anonymous 22 Jan 2011

#58

With these good words lets let this subject end. Enough said already.

Mark Lyons 22 Jan 2011

#59

Jack,
Thanks for the kind words.
Interesting Churchill quote!
Please know that he was also quite the prophet when he stated:

"The History Channel will be kind to me for I intend to write it".

mark
O--O

John Cox 23 Jan 2011

#60

You guys might be interested that Murray has commented on this on my blog. Ninth post down in the Comments.

http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2011/01 ... stars.html

John Cox 23 Jan 2011

#61

He also responded at the Genii forums.

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... Post237804

Anonymous 23 Jan 2011

#62

Please, please! Can't we just close this thread!
Enough said, as someone already stated.

Kevin Connolly 23 Jan 2011

#63

That was you Assnonymous! Keep the it going.

Now man-up and use your name.

MURRAY 24 Jan 2011

#64

Hey Everyone...

First off sorry to dissapoint all of you on the messsage blogs... First off... the first rule of shooting television is hurry up and wait... THEN... tape hours and hours of footage... then only use a couple of minutes. I do appologize for the mistake of saying Darcy cuffs when I know they were Darby cuffs... That was our first take of the day and one of the production staff was named Darcy and it was an honest verbal mistake and we re-shot that scene many times all with the correct title being Darby as well as different information... Unfortunately, once I leave the set... everything else is up to the editors and directors in New York with the hours and hours of footage... what they choose to show or tell is in the hands of them!

For one thing I can assure all of you... is yes these ARE Houdini's Handcuffs... and the value is 100% correct! Now who would pay this amount I am not sure but that is their stated fact value.

It does amaze me though at home jealous some people get when another person is on tv... Also amazes me how people love to judge someone that may not LOOK the part... FYI - My hair style, clothing style, and the way I do things are very calculated! Bottom line is your all talking about some guy that just happen to show up on the History Channel name MURRAY... that LOOKS more like he should be on the SFI-Channel!

Keep watching Pawn Stars as I am sure to upset many more people coming up!

Murray
http://murraysawchuck.com

Anonymous 24 Jan 2011

#65

First up, the cuffs cannot be traced to Houdini!! There is no prove, just suggestion.
Second, if I was used as the expert, I would want it in the contract that I was able to check what footage they were going to air so that I could keep my reputation and not have to apologize after the event.

Anonymous 24 Jan 2011

#66

I bet Harry is smiling and having a big laugh.

Mark lyons 24 Jan 2011

#67

"It does amaze me though at home jealous some people get when another person is on TV... "

Murray,
In trying to respond to your above quote, I find it particularly difficult to understand your point as your writing is somewhat cryptic. Perhaps you are implying that I am jealous that the producers believe you can bring in higher ratings than I and will be utilizing your services instead of mine from now on.
If so, then you don't know me very well. I was very grateful to have contributed my expertise on 3 episodes. I am a collector and historian of restraints and never claimed to be a showman. In the short amount of time that I looked your name up, I find that you have been around the world performing and such. I have not seen any videos of you (minus the PS episode) but would assume you have a stage persona and a certain flair. If the producers elect to have more pizazz in their segments versus a fact based appraisal, then so be it.
This forum was created by a collector/historian and is frequented by collector/historians who discuss restraint manufacture and its history. We have several performers (some world wide) but the main focus is HANDCUFF HISTORY. If I may speak for all of us here, we HATE false rumors, and embellished stories. We seek the truth and go to GREAT lengths to obtain it. We write articles in booklets and right here. This is what we do!
For you to go on one of the most watched TV show and tell millions that Franz Kukol, James Collins or Jim Vickery actually BROKE into Houdini's challenger's shop at night, is absolutely false and is nothing more than grandstanding. We do NOT tolerate that behaviour here and this is the reason I seem to have most of the support from the folks here.

"Also amazes me how people love to judge someone that may not LOOK the part... FYI - My hair style, clothing style, and the way I do things are very calculated!"

It is odd, butI do not recall reading anything judgemental about your appearance. Did you conclude this yourself or read something that I have not read?
Yes, you are out there in your appearance, but I understand that. You are sort of a blond Carrot-Top. I realize that Carrot-Top would not have the success that he enjoys today if he looked like Tom Cruise. Well, maybe with the women. Our own Stave Santini is out there too, but this is how he figures he can draw attention to his act and is quite successful at that.
I just have not seen any negative comments regarding his or your looks here or anywhere else.

I also defy you to prove that these cuffs were Houdini's.
The above blogs explain the provenance problem. Some were written by the world foremost Houdini experts. Yes they certainly were Radner's and most likely they were Hardeen's. A huge break in ownership appears here. Did Radner get them from Hardeen or did he get them from the Sears catalog? Did Hardeen get them from his brother or did he buy them at the police outfitters? No one can answer that! Not even Radner, anymore.
For the sake of the show, I too would have stated that they belonged to Houdini. But in your blog above, you just told all of the members of this forum that YOU know that Houdini owned these. Unless you were there, you DON'T know that! You CAN'T know that!

I wish you good luck with the show. You are welcome to come here and ask questions. We encourage that. All that we ask is that you should relay as much correct information as possible in your future episodes.

If it seems reasonable to you, I would be more than happy to personally provide you with whatever you need to help produce quality handcuff segments.

Mark Lyons
O--O
O--------O

MURRAY 24 Jan 2011

#68

Please remember I am on this show as a Magic Expert... The reason I was on this show was because Houdini was a magician... not because they were just some random handcuffs that might be worth money. It was because it was MAGIC based... hence the stories and information about the performer that USED the cuffs... I also had 3 historians with me on set to watch what was said and used in the filming. Once again, I will state, that once you leave the set, it is up to the editors to decided what to use. I don't own the show, I am just a special guest that appeared on the show.

This will be my last post as I really don't have time for all this back and forth banter but it's been a pleasure introducing myself to EVERYONE who had never heard of me before. I wish you all the best for 2011!

Murray

houdinisghost 24 Jan 2011

#69

First off, Murray did a Godawful job of being an expert. That said, he did an excellent job of selling Murray, which, in my opinion was the best thing he could do on that staggeringly cliched and boring show.
Everything Murray said was wrong, but, he said it great. He looked good--and memorable.
I thought he did really well.
In addition, the Radner auction in Las Vegas wasn't like the Houdini Hall of Fame auction at Butterfield's in Los Angeles. In Las Vegas, Sid Radner auctioned many treasures that he had owned since he bought them from Hardeen. There is no question that Hardeen sold and gave Sid Radner many precious items that had belonged to Houdini and himself. The Water Torture Cell, the handcuff Houdini called the Hungarian Manacle, the Frame for Walking Through a Brick Wall just to name a few. Many cuffs and picks.
I know that Sid kept the manacles he got from Hardeen separated from others he collected. He didn't mix them with the Wresch collection or the Raymond collection.
I believe that the provenance, and the known history which really is the story of Sid
Radner and Theo Hardeen is good enough and that the estimate was pretty close.
I think it is up to the current owner to find out everything he possibly can about these cuffs.
If he posted some photos and said, "Guys, tell me about these," nobody will be able put them right in Houdini's hands, but, the auction records give these cuffs more credibility than we're used to and there's a lot of help researching cuffs today--like this website. Then again, sometimes, as in the case of the Russian Manacle, the Mirror Cuff, the French Letter Lock Cuffs, and the Hungarian Manacle, which is owned by Sid Radner and used at his yearly seances, these cuffs show up in photos of Houdini.

Mark Lyons 25 Jan 2011

#70

I believe all that can be said, has been said.
I would like to see this blog laid to rest.
Perhaps the producers of the show would rather have their experts tell tall tales than give out accurate info.
All I can say is that it was an honor to do the shows that I did and IF they ever decide that my services are required, they should know that I am ready willing and able.
Otherwise, good luck with the show and I hope for much success with all the sellers and the experts who appear.

mark
O--O

houdinisghost 25 Jan 2011

#71

I don't know whether this blog should be laid to rest, but, I'm certain Pawn Stars should be laid to rest.

abracadabra 25 Jan 2011

#72

Well, if they are Houdini's Majic Accessories, then they are priceless. It is a bad economy and people are selling priceless treasures very cheap. And Vegas, being a gambling town even moreso.

I liked the expert majician's plaid pants. He may have pronounced a word wrong (so what), he came prepared and was genuine And did handle the cuff with respect until he put them on Chumley!
You can read majicians secrets anywhere on the internet so he was not breaking any majic bubbles.

I think the Father of the Pawn shop would have put his foot down at blowing seven grand on a fake. He was not born yesterday.

Pawn Star viewer 27 Jan 2011

#73

I just finished watching the Pawn Stars episode featuring Murray. It was magical, to say the least. I hope to see more of this rising talent in the future. Maybe, Stan W. could contribute more of his knowledge towards nurturing young talent such as Murray.

History Channel Viewer 01 Apr 2011

#74

Hello all of you fine collectors. Just popped in to see how the restraint collecting community is doing. Wanted to share the news that the Pawn Stars episode featuring Murray had the highest ratings of all of the restraint related episodes. Its great to see a nice guy do well!

Good guys do sometimes finish first!!!!

Mark Lyons 01 Apr 2011

#75

Yes, he has a 7.9 market share while I had a 4.7 and a 5.1
My hat is off to him for truly being the master of the airwaves!

mark
O--O

Joshua 01 Apr 2011

#76

Should you get asked back Mark you just need need to dye your hair pink, wear some funny glasses, call the cuff by the wrong name, make up some bs stories and then give a false value. That'll double your ratings for sure.

mark lyons 01 Apr 2011

#77

Yes,
I really liked how he just met a production assistant's helper by the name of Darcy and accidentally called the most common handcuff in England by her name an hour later.
I had just met McKenzie Phillips earlier that day and find it funny how I didn't call the mitts, "Phillips".
I say that this Murry should do what he knows best.....VANISH!

mark
O--O

Anon456 01 Apr 2011

#78

Poof!!! and there was a cloud of smoke and he vanished. Never to be seen again....

John Cox 01 Apr 2011

#79

Obviously, it was using the name Houdini that did the trick.

Mark Lyons 01 Apr 2011

#80

I think the "History Channel Viewer's" post was an April Fools joke!
My reply certainly was!

mark
O--O