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Darby Hiatt Key

14 visible archived posts · 14 preserved total · topic ID 4371
Original topic ↗Recovered images
corinkayaker 17 Oct 2011
#1
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
ChuckII 17 Oct 2011
#2
Man, that key is amazing! Keep up the good work!
cuffman3000 17 Oct 2011
#3
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Very nice!!!! You are a true craftsman!

Cheers, Mike D~C/
Lark 17 Oct 2011
#4
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Hello Corin, I am a casual collector of millitaria, here in England with a modest collection of handcuffs amongst my old guns etc. I have also been faced with Hiatt key challenges and would love to know how you eventually solved the problem. Although I am a reasonably accomplished machinist, the only way that I could get a matching thread was to copy the practice employed on modern keys for the "pirate", "slave","convict" junk - namely soldering a wire coil inside a tube. All attempts at cutting a matching tap, for the screw thread, failing to produce a correctly mating fit. I would be most interested if you are prepared to share your secret.
corin 17 Oct 2011
#5
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Thanks for the comments Guys.

In answer to Lark's question;

First up I did not solder anything, I did consider it after the third thread tap made and heat treated failed, the second internal threading tool was purpose ground and failed, and the first attempt at a key was flung into a distant corner of my shop.

I was flying blind making this, without a male thread to work off, it is very difficult to work out size, pitch and thread form as you no doubt know. The pitch was easy to measure as the threads were visible through the split. The minor diameter I measured by using drill bit shanks at the end of the original keys thread past the split and wear. The major diameter was harder to measure. I could have forced the split closed in the key and measured, but I made a promise not to further damage the original key so not an option. So I made a best guess, figuring it was not as critical as the minor diameter, as I could simply cut the thread as deep as I needed to until it fitted the cuffs.

The thread form was harder to measure. Judging from the original key it was clearly not a standard form, square, acme or such, it was more rounded which could have been wear, but I reasoned that even if I got it close it should work.

I hope the following is clear enough I did not take pictures.

Ok so the nuts and bolts of it. Step by Step
1) turn the outside diameter of the key cylinder, and drill the inside to the minor diameter.
2) Select two small carbide burrs, that would closely approximate the flanks of the thread on the original key. ( have been carving for many years and have a huge range of sizes and shapes, mostly dremel type. see the rest of the thread in the link in the original post)
3) hang your Dremel and run the flexi-drive down mounting the hand piece in the toolpost of the lathe,.
4) Adjust the top slide to an angle that will allow the bur to enter the required depth, and still give clearance for the burrs shaft and importantly closely approximate the form of the original thread.
5) set the lathe up for the required TPI and lock the half nuts.
6) with the dremel running at a good speed, and plenty of lubricant/coolant turn the lathe chuck slowly by hand, thus driving the tool at the required rate into the job.
7) It took about 4 passes and two burrs to form both flanks of the thread form and reach the required depth. by the third pass it was threading on one turn, a very light cut on the 4th pass increasing the depth brought it to a good running fit with no play. (do one flank at a time and if necessary change burrs for the next. Keep in mind that if you change burs you will have to be very careful to get everything aligned again (using the top slide) to ensure the cut is made correctly on the threads flank. It is fiddly but not actually very hard.)

After that and proof that it worked it was a simple matter of decorative turning the shank to approximate the original, then hand forging the back of the bar to form the "thumb wing", profile with a file... blue up to give it the aged look...

I was tempted to Stamp it Hiatt, or put my own makers mark on it, but have left it blank. Probably would look better if I stamped something on it. Anyhow, thats how I did it. Using a dremel as a cutting tool in a lathe is quite unconventional, but essentially it turned my lathe into a mill, and cutting threads in CNC mills is nothing new, the only difference is it was very small, and I did not have to program anything.

If there is a better way of doing this I would love to hear it, I killed many hours in the first attempts, but it did not actually take very long at all with the method above. If anyone knows the correct thread form of the bolt inside the cuffs that would allow the above method to be applied to make a near perfect form. Regardless the one I have made fits and works without play and as it is rarely used, if it is kept lubricated wear should never be an issue.
corin 17 Oct 2011
#6
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
can anyone give me an approximate age of this item? I would love to know for curiosity sake,they do not belong to me.
Ian McColl 17 Oct 2011
#7
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Hi Corin, you certainly didn't give up. great work. Can you post a better picture of your cuff. I have never come across anything which require 10 TPI. Does your repaired split key still work?

Ian
Dorson 17 Oct 2011
#8
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
I would be interested in any pictures that you have also! I could be wrong but the original keys before steel and ability to cast metal it was all forged. I think based on how the cuffs were constructed is that the keys were probably forged on a mandrel with the threads. I have seen the threaded bolts with very crude threads cut on them. Somewhere I have or can take better pictures of what I have.
corinkayaker 18 Oct 2011
#9
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Ian, Thank you for your comments. It means a lot to me. I know nothing about locks and I would be happy to hear any feedback you have. I will most likely never make a key again. I took it on purely as a challenge, but if you see anything I could do better feel free to send me a message. I know I could have cleaned up the lead in thread better, but as I was trying to prove the threading with a dremel concept I was a bit hasty to take it out of the lathe and try it. (That and I had spent the best part of my Saturday morning on the project) The threads were definitely 10 TPI which as you would be aware, in general engineering is found on much much larger bolts. 3/4" +. I could not find any literature on cutting a 10 TPI on something anywhere near this small.

The Pitch may well have something to do with the original key splitting, as the forces would be much greater than if a finer pitch was used. I don't know but what was normally found on this type of key?

The original key does not work, it turns on nicely but as soon as it bottoms out and starts to pull the pin it just skips the threads. My initial suggestion was to silver solder it back together but the owner wants to keep it original.

Dorson, I actually made a mandrel and tried forging the thread. If that is indeed how it was originally made I take my hat off too them. My one and only attempt at forging the thread was a dismal failure, though it did almost work, it looked terrible. I can take pictures of that attempt if you want as an example, it is still in the scrap bin at home.

OK so more pictures... Any suggestions on date would be appreciated.

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Ian McColl 18 Oct 2011
#10
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Hi Congratulation on the key again, very impressive to see how much thinking you have put into doing this and then achieving it.

Its always hard to make an assessment without having a cuff and key in ones hand but I might hazard a guess that the original key is not the exact key for the cuff.
This could be why it split. The thread on the locking bolt is only as long as it needs to be. The exact match key will only have as much internal thread or its length before the shoulder as it needed to have. If the key tube is longer than needed, it will bottom out at the shoulder and pull back the bolt and under force will continue to pull the bolt in beyond the threaded shank and this would cause the key to widen and then split.

Ian


PS Great photos.
corinkayaker 18 Oct 2011
#11
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Thanks Ian,

Sounds like a plausible explanation. The key with this pair is stamped "No Hiatt" If that means anything.

My copy of they key definitely works well, without any undue force but I will tell the owner to be gentle, just in case.

Nobody wants to have a stab at the date of production?
Ian McColl 18 Oct 2011
#12
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Hi Corin, The owner of the site Joe Lauher is the best for a date ( I am reluctant to say 1900 becasue I am sure Joe and several others will know better)

The 'No Hiatt' on the key is No = Number and there should be a number with it. I guess this 'NO' is above and to the side of the word HIATT.
So it's a Hiatt key to match a Hiatt cuff. It is typical that the cuff number stamped on the bow (shackle) and the number on the key match.

Ian

corinkayaker 18 Oct 2011
#13
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
Hi Ian,

The stamping is exactly as you describe it, except there is no number stamped on the key and I posted pictures of all the markings on the cuffs that I can see. As they are not mine I cannot clean them up and look for more.

Regards

Corin
Paul Davies 18 Oct 2011
#14
I am no expert but I just finished making a new key for a pair of Handcuffs. I don't know anything about handcuffs, and I am certainly no Ian McColl but I was pretty happy with the result. I don't know how this forum works yet so below is a link to the picture.


http://bushcraftoz.com/forums/showthrea ... 1#post8589
It is very hard to tell the date even with an original key.
In the 2nd and 3rd photo there is what looks like a "skinny Z" on its side to the right hand side of the photo.
That can also be an old style number one. The key should have had the same number. So the key is probably newer.
My guess at date is between 1860 and 1900 -ish.
Paul