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19 visible archived posts · 19 preserved total · topic ID 4443

cuffman3000 13 Nov 2011

Hi everyone, I tried to come here to sell 2 pairs of cuffs and a restraint belt set today and was met with rude posts and a pathetic attempt to halt my sales. It is sad that this hobby attracts so many hateful people that want nothing more than to cause other people trouble......it goes hand in hand with the escape artist world. As a result of this AM bashing, I have elected to honor what I said in one of my many earlier posts and put more things up for sale since it seems to bother a select group of people so much. I hate playing these little kid games but I am not going to sit back and take this kind of treatment from the lowlife scum that surfs this site when I have done nothing to deserve it.

I had some posts removed from this board almost a month ago because of some real hateful and inflammatory things that were posted on them, one post by someone I thought was my good friend (very sad) and I have not posted anything else until today. I really don't understand this treatment I am receiving. I was not the one who received several pairs of cuffs from people and didn't pay them. I have never asked to buy cuffs and when it was time to pay for them, backed out of the sale. I have never agreed to a sale then backed out and sold the cuffs to someone else for a higher price. I never agreed to sell something to someone, took the money, and didn't send them their stuff. I never sold an item to someone then instead of sending it to them, put it for sale on eBay and by a strange stroke of dumb luck, sold it to the first buyer a second time (BTW, that one was very original). I never took advantage of an elderly person by conning them out of something extremely valuable (bought for peanuts) then re-sold it here really high dollar. I never took photos of cuffs in other people's collections and sold the cuffs (that were not mine) hoping to get enough money from the sale to go and buy said cuffs, make a profit, and then ship them to the buyer. I am not the one who posts links to live auctions in an effort to drive the price up so someone can not get something cheap. I am not the one who sends messages to eBay sellers telling them the item they just sold on a super cheap "buy it now" price is worth a fortune and gets the item pulled right from under the lucky dog who won it fair and square. I am not the one who contacts eBay sellers and tries to get them to remove an auction and make a deal outside of eBay (because they know the seller doesn't know what they have and they want it cheap)......AND has plans to sell the item here for BIG bucks. All these things and more were done by other people here on the forum and I am the one who is being picked on?!! What the hell?!!! I think you people need to get your priorities straight......if you are going to hate a fellow collector, hate someone who deserves it.

I am going to lay a bit of truth on you right now......In recent months, I have had some serious health problems and even though I caught them in time (sorry to all of the people here that would love to see me dead), I have had to look at my life in a different light. I don't want to mix up in any of these childish games, not here, not on the Magic Cafe', not through e-mail, not on the phone, nowhere......life is too short for this kind of nonsense. I have already made the decision to leave the magic/escape world and I no longer wish to collect cuffs and restraints either. I was trying to keep this under wraps until this next year's Indy Lock Show and just sell off a few pieces of my collection in the meantime but I feel I have been forced to bring this info to light now. You people really need to leave me alone, let me sell my stuff in peace, and I will be out of your hair for good. I plan to get rid of about 95% of my magic, escape, and restraints collection. I want NOTHING to do with this group of people, the magic people, or the escape people. I have to stay around as long as it takes to sell off the remaining items and them I am gone. I can be a very vindictive man and can make people's lives less than tolerable in many ways but I don't want to do that. If you want me here and on the Cafe' posting every day, making and selling trick locks and cuffs, finding cuffs for cheap prices and re-selling them here for fun and profit, then keep doing what you are doing. If you don't, then let me do my business in peace and be rid of me.

Mike

P.S. Nearly everything in my collection is for sale to serious buyers. As of this writing, I plan to attend next years Indy Lock Show to sell off some of the cuff collection and maybe add some padlocks to my padlock collection. If you are seriously interested in any of my pieces, contact me......the faster the cuffs go, the faster I go.

lauher 13 Nov 2011

Michael

You have been a good friend and a great member of this crazy hobby of ours. I am so sorry that you have been having difficulties. I want to apologize for the manner you have been treated here in recent times. I do my best to monitor the forum, but some times I fail to clean things up fast enough.

You are most welcome to use the forum to sell off various items from you collection. You have some great items to sell and I hope members of the forum are wise enough to purchase them quickly.

And please do not leave us for good. We value your expertise and friendship. You are a good guy.

Joe

David DeStefano 13 Nov 2011

I too was greeted with anonymous insult yesterday unfortunately he never left his name and address maybe we could meet up and have a drink sometime to discuss his cyberspace finger typing overconfident keybd manner LOL

Chufu 13 Nov 2011

Dear Michael,
I for one am really sorry you are getting out of the business because you really are one of the honest nice guys with a talent that this carft needs!
I remember years ago my fist day on the Cafe I was attacked and you know me. But due to health lately I have come to realize that it is just not worth it so I guess age and health has done me a favor.
Recently I posted here about a Devils chair restraint I saw on line. The first post about it was negative but I just don't care.
I do love the fact that you can stand up for yourself so well.
I wish you good health and hope if you are able you will still supply so items if possible. Norm Bigelow

Icman93 13 Nov 2011

Michael Im the one that was posting about the hiatt 1960 with the belt. I think its messed up how these low like scum bags are trying to ruin this fun and interesting hobby. They really need to find a life. I realy hope you decide to stay I actually enjoy coming on here and learning stuff about new and old handcuffs. Its sad to lose a member even though im new to this forum. From all the previous forums ive been on ive learned theres always going to be some jackass that likes to make people look bad. With you mentioning about the ebay postings. The only ones that I do post are of my personal auctions. Or if I want some input on some cuff I havent seen or cant find anything about. And just want to learn more about before I try bidding on it.

handboeienfreak 13 Nov 2011

Hi Michael

I'm sorry to hear you stop with al your things

i like your posts a lot and learn lot of things from you
even when you not know that

hope you still want to enjoy us and if you have something to sale feel free to post here
or drop me a line but promiss one thing that you not stop with all your bizz
what i mention before i like it a lot and if i had so much money i want it all

wish you all the best

Patrick

Mark Lyons 13 Nov 2011

Michael,

I am sorry to hear about all of this.
I am sure that the great majority of the cuff collectors will miss you as I surely will.
Mostly I am concerned about your health and hope whatever you are experiencing will go away.
On the light side, maybe you are just having indigestion from your Jack-in the-Box diet.
Perhaps when you are up to it we can talk privately.

I offer my advice and hope it can serve you in some way.

For the last 4 years, I have been called almost every bad name in the book by no less than 4 lawyers. Not only did this occur, but they were actually submitted and recorded this rubbish to the court for the judge to read and they become public record for anyone else to read. I was also accused of almost every criminal act known to mankind. Thankfully, the justice system works.

Each time the ex gets a new lawyer, the mud slinging starts all over again.

It took me a while but I learned that there is only two things one can do about this;
Strike back using the legal system. I did and sued them twice. I won both times, but the time and expense was barely worth it. However, a win is a win! It does give some satisfaction to clearing your name and proving that they were the guilty party in the first place.
The other option is to just ignore what your opposition throws at you and just consider the source. Don't lower yourself to their level. Do what is right and don't let the bastards get you down. Either option allows one to sleep real good at night.

You are a good guy and you know this. You may not have the strike back option that I had in dealing with my toxic situation, but you have choices.
Selling off your stuff before you are ready may cause you harm as maybe buyers may not have the bucks to bid properly due to Christmas shopping lists on the horizon or other factors.
Don't make your financial decisions based on trying to get even with an anonymous poster who bad mouths you. It's not worth it.
Take care of your health first and sell when the time is right.

All the best to you and as the holidays arrive, have some fun and spend quality time with the people who offer positive things in your life.

mark
O--O

Hope some of this makes sense and you

Edgeplay_Cgo 13 Nov 2011

Michael,

We haven't interacted very much, but we've crossed paths a couple of times. I don't have anything but good to say about you.

All I can add is that fake Latin epigram, Illigitimi non Carborundum. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Best Regards.

John Bushey 13 Nov 2011

Hello to everyone,

I too am sorry about any health issues you might be having Michael. I certainly know all about that. I have been battling cancer for six years now, and have had to sell a number of items to pay medical bills. I certainly would like to see you remain in the hobby and increase the percentage of items you keep. 95% is a large number!

This forum is about the best gem we have all had for our hobby. It's a place we can communicate, learn, and help each other gain knowledg. We can acquire or liquidate pieces from our collections, knowing they've gone to a good home or are coming to a good home. We can share our new pieces or ask questions to all who read this. This forum is too valuable to tarnish with negativity, particularly to those undeserved. It you have something to say perhaps privately emailing that person is a better choice. This becomes difficult when many who post for whatever reason want to post anonymously. While occasionally there have been some negative posts that are off-topic, anyone going back through the forum's history can see that many people have used the forum as a place to not only communicate but to sell items. I know I was guilty a while back of commenting in a negative light on something Mike England had to sell. I did apoligize to him for that. And, I will add that I have had several deals with Mike, both selling him items and buying items from him. All deals were done very fairly and in a very very professional manner. I am one of many who will stand up to say anyone out there should feel comfortable dealing with him anytime. He has some nice items up there right now.

For all those those of us in our hobby, let us try to keep this forum as a place to gain and acquire knowledge, share our collections, ask questions, and perhaps sell or buy a piece. I do agree with the other posts here, and particularly Mr. Lyons statement about not making financial decisions based upon some anonymous postings.

Best Wishes to all,
John Bushey

Atlanta*Casting 13 Nov 2011

#10

Michael , I would certainly urge you to reconsider ( throwing in the towel ) and giving up .

I personally like the forum , ( it is what it is ) ...

I was away last night and missed the action , sorry too hear that anons where cutting down your posts .

Joe Lauher knows who the scoundrels are and he does a pretty good job at keeping the trolling to a minimum here .

( in my opinion )

hang in there pal ...

Anonymous 14 Nov 2011

#11

Quite possibly... the greatest disappearing act of all time.

Vince 14 Nov 2011

#12

Dear Mike,

First and foremost, I wish you well, and pray that you'll be healthy & happy, no matter what issues life throws at you - I really mean it!

As for collecting, you're amongst the elite group of people who talk through your mouth, instead of your @$$, (Sorry for being so blunt, but that's how I feel). We all face hurdles that cause us to say & do things we later kick ourselves for. If selling your collection is what you ultimatley want to do, so be it, just remember one thing man, Who will I have to talk to for hours in the lobby at INDY every year about cuffs, gaffs & padlocks and all the other stuff that makes this hobby so frustratingly unique??? Not to mention all your friends here on this website, many, including myself have gained unmeasureable knowlege from your posts over the years. You have a gift to view things from a perspective others may miss, as well as a world class smartass attitude in dealing with challenges relating to keys or locks. That attitude should rear it's head right now in dealing with the select FEW bad apples causing your grief.

Sincerely,
o--o Vince

tim71 14 Nov 2011

#13

Wow. I've bought a couple things from you and have had nothing but positive results.

All the best.

cuffman3000 14 Nov 2011

#14

Well, it took me quite a while but I just got through a flood of private e-mails and took the time to read every word that has been posted here so far. I just want to say thanks to everyone who commented; it means a lot to know some people do care for and respect me as a fellow collector. I decided long ago that I was going to make a mark on the Escape World and eventually leave it a little better than I found it. I don't know if I have done that but I have shared many things with countless people over the years, took time to create and post a lot of Youtube videos to help out others in the business (both handcuff collectors and Escape Artists), and so on. However, my decision to let go of the Magic/Escape world stands......I want nothing to do with it anymore. The Escape world has not been good to me, nor has it been good FOR me.....I don't need the stress that comes with it.

Deep down, I am a Locksmith....always have been, always will be. The highlight of 2011 for me was the Indy Lock Show. I am usually one of the only cuff guys there (we are few and far between at padlock shows) but this years we were damn near the majority! It was great. It seems that when we get together face to face, there is very little drama and certainly no annon phantoms running around causing havoc. I will continue to go to Indy as long as there is an Indy Lock Show regardless of weather I am collecting cuffs or padlocks.

I said some stuff out of anger last night and I really don't know where I stand with cuff collecting right now. I was being attacked left and right and didn't feel like anyone was on my side. If I had done the handcuff community wrong, I would have understood it but I don't feel I have. It has been brought to my attention that some people didn't like me posting my 3-way Tower single lock cuffs for sale.....or rather, they didn't like my price. If that is a reason to hate someone, then please don't make excuses for other people when they post something for sale for more than you think it's worth (I think we all know who I am talking about but I will not bring his name into this post). I had a fellow collector who had a deep admiration for that cuff and asked if I ever decided to even toy with the notion of selling it to let him know......even if I just threw out an insane number. So, I did. I offered it to that collector first and never heard back from him so I posted it here and from what I am now hearing, it caused quite a stir. Sorry if I offended anyone. This cuffs is in incredible shape, it is very old, and it is RARE!!! I only know of four in existence (there maybe more, who knows? some people are very secretive about their collections). I also think mine is the best of the four......and I am not just saying that because it is mine. I figured that there are at least 40 known pairs of McKenzie Mitts (not so rare by comparison) and they normally sell for between $3,000.00-$4,000.00 one collector even asked $6,000.00 for a pair on eBay (they didn't sell for that much, but he did post them for that much). There are something like 12 known pairs of ER cuffs and one collector here claims to have sold one for $20,000.00. A nice Palmer leg iron (not so rare by comparison) will fetch up to $2,500.00 to the right buyer. There are a lot of Oregon Boots floating around the cuff community (not so rare by comparison) and they sell between $2,000-$3,000.00.00. Even the somewhat common Bean Giant in excellent condition will sell for upward of $2,000.00. So, with this kind of thing going on, I set my insane number accordingly; based on age, rarity, and condition. I never expected to get what I was asking for the 3-way......hell, I was only half serious about selling it in the first place. However, I would have gladly let it go for what I was asking if someone was so insane for it that they just had to have it. What would you do? There is no reason to beat me up over that, I have sold all kinds of cuffs to all kinds of people here.....some were dirt cheap, some were average priced, and some were pricey. If nobody wanted them for the price I was asking then they would never have sold (I have very few items in that category).

I will also once again go on record about the infamous Tower Lyon thumbcuffs: Ian did NOT sell me this cuff for $300.00!!!! I was charged $406.00 by another member here on the forum and I did some work to them and made a new key (for my own satisfaction, not that they were broken or that Ian didn't make them the right way.......I am just a perfectionist about certain things). Here is part of the story: I had to coat them because they instantly started to rust after I got them, then after I got a good built up coat of shellac on them (several thin coats), I used the provided key and a sharp edge on the key scrapped the coating off by the key hole and I had to strip them down and start all over again! That is part of the reason I made a new key for them.....to prevent that form happening again after I got them re-coated. I have a lot of time into them and thought I would ask a little more for them than I paid. If that was wrong, then sue me. I bought these thumbcuffs for a Tower Handcuff board I was making but I since, abandoned idea.....and there is even more to this whole story but I won't go into it. If anyone wants these thumbcuffs for what I paid for them, let me know.....they are a sore subject and I will be happy to cut my loss on them.

As far as my health, I am still kicking but my lifestyle, age, and a lot of poor choices have finally caught up with me. I won't go into detail here on a public forum but let's just say that I have learned a hard lesson and I am on the right path to getting well again and I really appreciate everyone's concern. =)

I don't know what I will keep of my collection and what I will sell aside from the stuff I posted up here recently. I know I want to keep at least one of my display boards with just cuffs on it but I have a whole lot more stuff that I need to make a decision about. Keep your eyes on the board here to see what will stay and what will go. Most of the Escape Artist stuff is going, some things are already gone (I sold several items privately before I posted the stuff here) but the rest is as good as gone as far as I am concerned.

Thanks again for all of your support guys and sorry if I rambled on a bit too long!

Cheers, Mike D~C/

Icman93 14 Nov 2011

#15

Mike im going to try and email joe and see if we can work something out with posting rules where you have to be a registered member to post comments etc. im going to try anyway.

cuffman3000 14 Nov 2011

#16

Yeah, we have been though this sing-in thing a hundred times. There is not much we can do about the annon idiots except laugh when we think about how sad and pathetic they are for having to do what they do. Thanks for the support.

Cheers, Mike D~C/

Icman93 14 Nov 2011

#17

This is joes response to the email I sent him

" This has been question ever since the first forum began over ten years ago. There was a period when I required log-ins, although I did not keep it hat way for long.

The problem with requiring registration is that is shuts out many of our more interesting posts. At the same time it does not prevent anonymous posters because anyone can create a false log-in persona. All it takes is a random hotmail or gmail or whatever account.

So on balance I would rather leave it open. but thanks for you concern. Joe"

Edgeplay_Cgo 16 Nov 2011

#18

I cannot understand a'oles bitching about a high price asked by a seller. It's a free market. If I can buy something for ten bucks and sell it for a hundred, be damnsure I will do so. An article is worth what you can sell it for. If you're too poor to buy the three way Towers (as I am) then let someone else buy them in peace.

I don't see anything wrong with pointing out flaws and defects, or explaining why you think something is or isn't a fake. That's kinda what we do here.

Can the board settings be changed to require display of the registered name? The members are still as anonymous as they want to be. I can still register an account as Joe Sjit The Ragman, but at least there's some consistency in identifying the a'oles.

Meanwhile, Mike, I'll repeat my advice, "Illigitimi non Carborundum." And take care, my friend.

cuffman3000 17 Nov 2011

#19

Thanks Dennis, you are a good friend.

Cheers, Mike D~C/