The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Goncz Handcuffs Manuscript for Sale

246 visible archived posts · 246 preserved total · topic ID 4531

Lajosur 23 Dec 2011

Greeting to all,

I am John Goncz and thanking for all the kind and appreciative words for the Goncz Handcuffs.

As is known I stooped producing Handcuffs long time ago due to cheep imported parts from China etc. and than assembled in the USA.

Other reason is that there is a system in place, that prevents any advancement for new products. The NIJ Standard is mostly requested
in the bids. To receive the NIJ approval: you need to submit 2 pairs of each model for testing. You can choice between 2 labs and each is charging over $4,000.- to perform a test that takes 30 min. (the salt bath 4 hours). So we had about 10 various models and they wanted over $40K. I informed them to go and whistle in the Dixie Land! They did not liked and I was treated also by the AG because I claimed that my Handcuffs are surpassing the NIJ standards. They requested that I shall prove it. I informed them, that if they are questioning the quality, they should test it.... which of course they did not. After in a letter informed NIJ, that is a "raquet", they did not liked either!!!! Of course I did not offered any Football game tickets either.

So we sold them overseas Peru, Mexico, Europe and small quantity in the US to collectors. Some are even gold plated as there was an order from Viena.

So the US Justice system is stocked with handcuffs, that you can pick it with paper clip or even a toothpick.

The Handcuffs are appreciated quite well, even better than gold 10 to 15 times. So congratulation, to all the collectors.

Now recently I sold the handcuff that I had. The last one went for $260.-

What I still have the Manuscript, that includes hand drawings of the design, tooling designs and CAD - CAM Files.

I do have a new design that is impossible to pick.. This design is also for sale for cash or licencing.

I Decided to sell it with tech support for $25,000.-

Any body interested please contact me at 702-666-3149

Thanks again to all nice folks and Marry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!!!!!!

joe tanner 23 Dec 2011

hey GONCZ :: why don't you just send it all to me in payment for the SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS that you STOLE from me ..... i figure with inflation & the value of the cuffs that i PAID for in ADVANCE and that i NEVER RECEIVED when you were first peddling the cuffs should equate to $25K plus... how about it ..... it is said that it is never to late to pay a debt.... joe

Ian McColl 23 Dec 2011

Hi Mr Goncz, when you said you were making the cuffs and taking orders (therefore money),I was very happy to have known several people who warned me not to invest in any Goncz products as they had paid cash but never got the products.

I have a set now from another source (cheap $$) and the so-called design improvement didn't amount to much and the cuff is as easy to pick as any other.

Thanks to those who gave me the heads up.

Ian McColl

Tom Gross 23 Dec 2011

Damn! I'll bet Mr. Goncz wasn't expecting that!

Anonymous 23 Dec 2011

Joe You are a Liar!!!!

I owe you nothing!!! What ever any body ordered I shipped, some maybe late but it was compensated with extra handcuffs.

Anonymous 23 Dec 2011

Ian!!

Are you the guy that was a Warden at the Pelican Bay and claimed that you can pick them??? and you were confronted to prove it and you could not and got fired????

If you so dissatisfied with the Goncz sell it you will get top $$$

I am standing behind the products as they are the best and made of Aircraft quality 4130 at 36 Rc.

amazing010 23 Dec 2011

"I do have a new design that is impossible to pick.."

No lock or cuff is impossible to pick. If it can be opened with a key, someone, somewhere, can open it by other means. W-LOK presented a "pick proof" padlock and keys to me back in 2001; they challenged me to pick it open and I did. They sent another one with no keys and I opened that one too......and I am just a slightly better than average lock picker, in my opinion. There are some bad ass lock picking guys out there that will make light work out of most high security handcuffs (Chubb Escorts being one of the only exceptions). I would love to get a hold of a pair and give them a go round.

Good luck with your business venture.

Cheers, Mike D~C/

Unknown / guest 23 Dec 2011

Oops, forgot to sign my name on the last post!

Cheers, Mike D~C/

handboeienfreak 23 Dec 2011

Hi

I'm not a lock picker or a escape artist
but even for me the gonzc cuffs are easy to pick
also when double locked i'm able to pic them
and more easy than a smith & wesson model 100
so what i want to say is if you have the tools
every lock you can pick

best

patrick

ps i pic them with the double lock in less than 25 seconds

Anonymous 23 Dec 2011

#10

The peerless 700 is just as good as the goncz handcuffs (better i think) and check out the blade fourm on john goncz.I wouldent give him 25.00 for his so called manuscript.

john Goncz 24 Dec 2011

#11

Anonymous,

You must a genius picking handcuffs.

Here is a bet: I put up $25,000 and 1 pair of the new designed HS.
You put up $25,000
You will have 10 min. to pick. If you do it the $25,000 and the handcuffs
is yours.
Otherwise I will take your money and smile.

As to the Manuscript your statement represents, that you are not intelligent enough to
value intelligent creation.

So put-up or shot-up!!!!

Fred Sanford 24 Dec 2011

#12

As much as I have exchanged insults back and forth between me and Amazing Michael and dont always see eye to eye... The dude is good. My money is on Amazing Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet $25,000 Goncz wont come up with $25,000.

Anonymous 24 Dec 2011

#13

After all these years... He would be lucky to come up with the High Security handcuff.

Put up or shat up John!

Chufu 24 Dec 2011

#14

If Michael or Patrick say they can pick that cuff it is a fact. To call it pick proof is false advertising and to call it pick resistant is simply not true.
I am a retired escape artist and locksmith. I know from years of experience that when some one wants to slide out of a situation they say something like I bet $25,000
The fact is your cuff is nothing any escape artist or street wise prisioner will fear at all. Norm Bigelow

Anonymous 24 Dec 2011

#15

I tried to post and no go!!!!?????

tim71 24 Dec 2011

#16

Mr. Goncz,

I appreciate the information. I recently aquired a pair of your cuffs after a long time of trying and they are a nice addition to my collection.

Don't know about everybody else's dealings with you but I'm a proud owner of a pair of your cuffs and autographed brochure.

Tim

chris 24 Dec 2011

#17

Hi Mr Goncz, I own several of your Handcuffs and i think they are well made and finished. They are not that different to other types out there, and certainly not pick proof or resistant!. The only main difference is the location of the double lock push pin, (underside of lockcase) and the lack of swivels. No complaints with them at all, just nothing new here. I have heard several people describe how they have designed a 'pick proof' Handcuff and have yet to see anything come of it. All the best to you, you at least made some Handcuffs!.

MICHAEL LEE 24 Dec 2011

#18

Happy Holidays to All.

Michael Lee

handboeienfreak 24 Dec 2011

#19

Hi

First of all i want to say i do like the goncz cuffs
and i do not say they are not secure
but if you know how it works and you have a good pickin
tool it is possible to pick
but after de discusion here is it to pic or not i want to know for myself is it possible
and yes i'm able to pick the goncz cuffs
i will look if it is possible to place a little movie of it on youtube

happy holidays

best

patrick

Anon Anon Anonymous 24 Dec 2011

#20

Patrick, take up the challenge and win $25,000.00 before posting you video (which will prove you can do it)

John Goncz 24 Dec 2011

#21

Patric,

You maybe the greatest picker and congratulation!!!!

All my handcuffs were precision instruments and made so. We were the only manufacturer, that used Aircraft quality Chrome Aloy 4130 or 4350 depending the material was available. (Other manufacturers are using 1018 garbage.) The Cheeck plate are pree heat treated to 36 Rc. and after there were stamped on 100 ton press from the progressive die for each hit we had 2 finish parts with the doles in it. The holes were stamped so that has a cone shape so that even if you would grind the rivet head of, the handcuff still would be together. The insignia etc. was stamped after on a smaller 30 ton press.

The Blade was stamped also first and than in another die we hit the grow in, and than in a shaving die for perfect smooth finish. From here the were grind ed to .150 thickness within .001 so that uniformity assured, that non is to tied or to loose.

Also the spacer was made the same way .161, and the pawl was the same process and after grinding they were case hardened. The chains were case hardened.
All parts were tumbled to break the edges (.010 Rad).

The assembly was with pree inspection each part and assembled in automatic machine that produced 160 to 180 pair of handcuffs per hour. After assembly each Handcuffs were inspected. The plating was .0005 thickness per Mil. Spec. upon assembly.

After received from the plating each was inspected , lubricated and packaged with the Inspector signature on each instruction sheet.

So far none of them were returned for any reason and I am proud of it.

You may compare the quality with others and you will see that the Goncz has unmatched quality built in....

As to the un -pick able handcuff that I was speaking of it is secure and the reason is you would need 3 tool to do it and act in 2 direction at the same time, that is impossible and the tool could have not the strength even if you would use Titanium.

The bet is standing!!! Any taker????

Marry Christmass to all and God Bless!!!!!

tim71 24 Dec 2011

#22

Gentlemen, I think Mr. Goncz is refering to 2 different handcuff designs. I think the challenge is for the high security design that evidently didn't go into production but is mentioned in the first post. The model that collectors have is a standard operating design but evidently made of very superior materials and therefore must have higher mechanical properties.

I will say this, as hard as I had to turn the key to unlock the double lock on my pair, I can't immagine any pick holding up to that.

Just my observations.

Tim

Mark Lyons 25 Dec 2011

#23

Hi.
I have been meeting with Mr Goncz over the last few months and will be writing an article about him and the cuffs he has manufactured.
I was not going to say anything as this thread certainly has the potential to go very sour.
Mr.Goncz's cuffs are marked HS (Hi-Security, LACT and PNP....all of which I have for sale)
The PNP stamped cuffs went to the Peruvian National Police and was made in Nickle plate and Black.
The LACT Los Angeles Custody Transport is also in both finishes.
The HS model is manufactured the same as the above cuffs, but what Mr. Goncz is referring to is a 3 pawl ratchet system. Like many Korean cuffs, one would have to depress all 3 pawls to open the cuff. A prototype may exist but no production models were manufactured.
A poofed out prototype pictured below make it harder to get tools inside and manipulate the pawls.

This cuff was tested (and beaten) by the Chicago Police to see if itmeets or exceeds their requirements. Even though the lock was not picked or defeated, it was rejected.....probably due to its cost or not paying someone off.

The pic above shows the inner workings minus the double lock device. A very strong spring makes it very hard to pull the double lock bar back with a wire, hence the claim that they can't be picked.
I will agree that any lock can be picked but the difficulty of overcoming the spring tension on this cuff would be at a much higher level than a normal S&W or Peerless.

Hope this clears some things up.

mark
O--O

Fred G. Sanford 26 Dec 2011

#24

Take the bet you big dummy.

tim71 26 Dec 2011

#25

Mark / John,

The pic above that was beaten and tested by the Chicago police. Is that the 3 pawl design or is this another prototype?

Thanks for the info.

Tom Gross 26 Dec 2011

#26

A proposition has been made, although it's a little vague. Let's, just for fun, put some meat on it. Here is how I understand the matter, as of now.

Mr. Goncz has offered to bet $25,000 that his cuffs cannot be picked. Patrick may or may not wish to accept this wager.

Here are the issues which need to be clarified;

1. The cuffs in question, do they presently exist? Are they more than a concept or a design? If so, can they be overnighted to Oregon?

2. How much time would the challenger be allowed, to pick the cuffs in question?

3. Does Mr. Goncz have $25,000? I'm not talking about a post-dated check. I'm not talking about an I.O.U. I'm talking about a stack of $100 bills?

4. Does Patrick have $25,000? Same deal, cash money! Naturally, he would be free to solicit contributions from friends and supporters, to provide the funds. As would Mr. Goncz.

Can anybody think of any other details which should be clearly resolved in advance?

If the details can be worked out, and if Patrick accepts the challenge, Mr. Goncz can overnight the cuffs, and a CASHIER'S CHECK in the amount of $25,000 to me. I would then fly to The Netherlands (at great personal sacrifice and inconvenience) and supervise Patrick's attempt at picking the cuffs in question. Patrick would not be allowed to attempt such picking until his cash was on the table.

If Mr. Goncz was unwilling to trust my sole judgment, perhaps a consortium could be arranged. Perhaps Michael Busch and Peter Pensaert could meet me in The Netherlands and observe the challenge. It could even be videotaped. Depending upon the results, there would be no arguments, no appeals, no whining. $50,000 would either be left on Patrick's kitchen table or remitted to Mr. Goncz.

Since you made the first overture, Mr. Goncz, I ask you if the foregoing is acceptable and if you are ready, willing and able to go forward?

As an old friend of mine, a rustic chap, was fond of saying, "Talk's free! Whiskey and pussy cost money!"

Mark Lyons 26 Dec 2011

#27

Tim,
The above picture is a single pawl design.
The 3 pawl design seems to be cheaper to manufacture as the press would not have to punch out such a thick piece. Punching material 1/3 the size of the original item minimizes the chance or breaking the part and of course make the cuff more secure.

Mr. Goncz told me that he developed a 3 pawl version, but this was not it.

mark
O--O

Anonymous 26 Dec 2011

#28

That High Security cuff looks like a 104 S&W to me.

Anonymous 26 Dec 2011

#29

Must admit... The innards of the goncz look heavy duty though.

Anonymous 26 Dec 2011

#30

I was also screwed by john goncz no knifes no handcuffs and no flashlights keep your money in your pocket

handboeienfreak 26 Dec 2011

#31

Hi Tom and others

you are right
I do not have any 25.000 dollar
and for the chalange i'm not affraid
but i do not want any money for my little statement
i'm not an escape artist and i do not want to
otherwise i could make big dollars with it
for the next year we have the euro convention
i want to invite Mr. Goncz himself and i will show how i open
the goncz cuffs i have and he may inspect them
i've no secrets
i'm a simple electric technician /engineer
and i love to collect handcuffs
and like how it works /techniques
also i was the imspirator for the new dutch handcuffs
so i know how cuffs work and should work
everyone who is interested how i pic a goncz cuff
come next year to the euro convention and i will show it
for free
i do not need money for one little pick demonstration

best

patrick

John Goncz 26 Dec 2011

#32

To the Anonymous M. F. S. O. B. Please identify you!!! Dot not hide behind a screen like a RAT in a dark Hole. I owe you nothing "scumbag" and now go and play with your mother and thank her, that give a birth to a bastard child that she dos not know who is the father is!!!!!

First the Knifes that I designed and made, were made out of Titanium, the whole knife one piece including the Blade. I was the first who made all Titanium knife, with an edge that is about 72 Rc. No body was ever able to duplicate it as of now. It was featured in the Knife magazine Blade 1985 or so as well in a Belgium Magazine. The same knife was used in the Total Recall with Arnold and Sharon. They were limited productions and sold for $450.- each no more than a dozen were made the production cost was to high.

John Goncz 26 Dec 2011

#33

Patrick,

Thanks for your comments and I am not questioning that the standard Goncz handcuff can be picked, the HS more difficult, but the new design is impossible. The reason, when the double lock is applied a secondary lock is created and to reverse it you need to apply such a torque that is impossible to apply as there is no space for it and you would need 3 piece to manovare it if you know to what direction. The prototype that was made , physically was impossible. Even with titanium no go. On the other hand You may succeed ...

Mark Lyons 26 Dec 2011

#34

If this challenge is to take place,
I suggest that it takes place in Holland at the Euro Cuff Convention.
There will be numerous colletors who can witness the event and even video tape it.
This will make this convention more intersting and perhaps more attended.

mark
O--O

mfsob # 3 26 Dec 2011

#35

manovare... Dont you mean manure?

Ian McColl 26 Dec 2011

#36

Back when John Goncz was marketing the first handcuff, I spoke to him on the phone, he proudly commented that his design was far superior to any other and couldn't be picked.
Now I am reading that he says the first cuff could be picked by the next design cannot be.
"Once bitten , twice shy"
It doesn't really matter.
There is much talk about the cost of an officers life????
Gotcha cuffs and the maker of the new one way swivel cuff use this for their marketing. Maybe Goncz will too.
If there was any credence in the heart born comment, Every working officer would be given a pair for their protection and personal security.
But they are not given good cuff and many complain about the high cost of any better cuff. MR Goncz said that his cuff was stopped due to cheap imports so is there a market for a better cuff??
When are people going to get realistic and say that if it works its okay and a low price nearly always wins over patriotism and safety.
A lot of chest beating is done and nothing ever comes of it.
The first Goncz cuff was marketed as pick proof? so put up the $25,000 on that and let them line up to take the money.

Tom Gross 27 Dec 2011

#37

Mark, good idea! We can postpone the Goncz-Fest until the European Convention. Even though no money will change hands, at least the entire community will know, within hours, whether or not the new Goncz handcuffs are "unpickable".

I'm still unclear as to whether these "unpickable" handcuffs actually exist in a real form, as opposed to some design concept or vague dream. If they do exist, or even if they will exist before the convention, and since you seem to be on good terms with Mr. Goncz, perhaps you can bring them to Europe and act as an observer to insure that Mr. Goncz' product gets a fair evaluation.

tim71 27 Dec 2011

#38

So as I'm hearing it, there are 3 distinct versions. The standard, the HS and now the prototype? Is this true?

I'm having a hard time figuring out what we all have. Is the HS the one that Chicago beat and tested?

I just got mine out again last night and they are made quite well. To know that they are Chromolly steel is an added plus.

Tim

Mark Lyons 27 Dec 2011

#39

I will respond as I did ask Mr. Goncz this exact question and I am certain that I have it right, but will reserve the option of being corrected if my accuracy is off.

All of the production models are made the same. They all have the exact same parts with the exception of the HS model which has a stronger spring in the double lock bar. The cuffs are of a higher grade metal than the other models too.

The 3 piece ratchet pawl is a concept only, but a prototype may have existed at one time.

Because of this, I do not believe a 3 piece pawl cuff is available for a cuff showdown in Holland this October.

The below is a star wheel anti-shim version prototype, but my apologies as the picture is not very clear.

mark
O--O

Anon Anon Anonymous 27 Dec 2011

#40

FROM
http://www.goncz.net/inventor.html
QUOTE
Other inventions are GÖNCZ Titanium knifes, the GÖNCZ Ultra-Lock handcuffs that are pick proof.

Anonymous 27 Dec 2011

#41

I have moved my bookmark for this website to my comedy section.
Why? Because this site is the biggest joke I've ever encountered.

John Goncz 27 Dec 2011

#42

To All, hope every body had a Merry Christmas!!!!

To me Holland is fine. The Opening can be interesting "splash". I can have the new handcuffs ready and maybe make 6 sets only. They will be EDM Wire cut parts precision within =/- .001 stamped and signed by me... Winner takes all.. Any body wants to be a "Booky"... I am not sure if would be legal???? any input???

As to the market for a pick proof handcuff, I would estimate there is a Worldwide market for 10,000 to 15,000 pc. per year exist at $80.- to 90.- a pc. that totals $800,000.- to 1.2 Million. Manufacturing cost about $20.- per pc. represents $600,000.- to $900,000.- profit per year, which is not bad. The tooling cost about $100,000.- and of course my Royalty 20% is still a very lucrative Venture.

So the $25,000.- for the Manuscript is give away cheap.....

I will trust Mark Lion to take the Handcuff to Holland for the "Challenge" or have it in Los Angeles!!!! ?????....

As to the handcuffs from Chicago??? any body heard of a "Honest Cap of Chicago, or Honest Official" ???? They sent me back only the half, the other half just "walked away" A La Chicago... You can see the beating it took, so that turned white, some prisoners turning black from the beating...

I made the unpick able but did not released it and was destroyed and only the file exist for it due to the design, that I did not wanted to find it self to Pakistan as one guy from Chicago wanted to do... When I told him if he dos that i will find him in Pakistan and I will Baptize him and turn him into a Christian. Never heard from him again....

Anonymous 3x 28 Dec 2011

#43

JG, You ever hear of spellcheck?

Or maybe have someone proofread your post before you click the respond button?

Just an observation.

John Goncz 28 Dec 2011

#44

x3!!! Who are you???? Chicago cap???!!!!

Just to let you know the English is my sixth language... can you top it???? Any other problem you have???
Just stick to the Poem: Handcuffs. Otherwise nobody is interested in your pity comments.

tim71 28 Dec 2011

#45

Mark,

Forgive me, but I love the details so don't take this as being annoying. In your sentence above, are you saying that the HS models are of a higher grade steel than the "regular" Goncz models or are you just referring to the fact that all the Goncz cuffs are of a higher quality metal than other cuffs of other brands?

I love the fact that we've got the inventer of these cuffs on this board for some chat. Love all the details.

Tim

Dorson 28 Dec 2011

#46

I am curious how you define higher quality steel and myself trained as a mechanical engineer and we do get a healthy dose of metallurgy in our training. I know most of the low cost Asian imports tend to be lower carbon steel and lower carbon steel can't really be heat treated to enhance it's characteristics. As you increase the carbon content and dope it with other elements, you can alter the properties and do heat treatment to give it the desired characteristics one desires.

John Goncz 29 Dec 2011

#47

Dorson,

If you are trained as an engineer, and involves metallurgy, than you know, that the cheep steel is a low carbon steel, starts at 1018 as you increase the last 2 digits that represents the carbon some springs are made of 1080 or so. More carbon you have is a higher quality and thereby increasing the tensile strength and the stability.

When you entering, the high - quality 4000 series, where you have added Chrome, Vanadium and other exotic material now you are talking strength and "mucho buck", with 4130, 4350 you tripped the strength and also the costs. No question it gives you the quality, which no others have...

When I designed my first handcuff, I bought most of the handcuff and inspected them and took it apart and evaluated, their functions and realized, what a poor design they were. I also sent them to lab to identify the material composition etc. The result was disappointing as they were the lowest grade material.

So I said If my name: GONCZ goes on it has to be the best and so on went. The low grade metal will start rusting very fast: couple of days weeks, where the Chrome alloy will last for long time, as is shown on the Chicago Cuff, that was hammered more that 20 years ago, and they are still not started to rust, because of the high content of Chrome in it.

I would like to see as what kind of picking tools will come into use for picking my "High Security" handcuffs, and all pickers welcome to post their tool of the trade...

Thanks

Mark Lyons 29 Dec 2011

#48

Tim,

I have the answer you are looking for.
All of the production cuffs are the same.
The variations are all about the markings and finishes, except in the case of the High Security (marked-- HS)cuffs.
Those cuffs have stronger springs in them to make it harder to pick.
Mr. Goncz is steadfast in his belief that too much tension must be applied on the (most likely spring steel) pick to snap back the deadlock.
I reminded him how talented and innovative some of the members are on this board and it is my belief that the HS cuff will succumb in any testing and including the grand test in the Holland Octogon.
He does not see this as being possible and will await the results as they become known.
I don't normally try to pick cuffs as I spend much more time making keys to any new cuff acquisitions, but as a one time Cannon Convention PadLock Picking Contest Winner, I will attempt to pick a HS cuff.
I will not post my results here until after all challenges have met their course as I do not want to interfere with the challenge at hand.
Instead, I look forward to witnessing the event in Holland in the shadows of the Scheidam Windmills.

mark
O--O

Anonymous 3x 29 Dec 2011

#49

1. It is an open forum pal.

2. As a potential customer I ask you , Why would I buy this manuscript or handcuffs from you?

3. I would have paid the 40K to get the handcuffs NIJ certified. ( pay Caesar ) it's the way the world works.

4. I will give you credit for spelling your name right.

5. What is a Chicago Cap ?

grenchat 29 Dec 2011

#50

I, likewise, look forward to witnessing this spectacular event in October. One of the obvious details that needs to be addressed beforehand is that of the time element. Another that comes to mind is as to whether this would be an open-tool-box challenge, or perhaps instead limited to only commonly available items to be used as picks, pries, etc.?

In any case, we've got plenty of time to reconcile...

Cheers!
Jason

Anonymous 29 Dec 2011

#51

If you have read the book "The Arms of Krupp", you may have been impressed by the contest of artillery makers and armor makers, over the course of centuries. At one time the muzzle loading brass cannon was the most formidable weapon on earth. Then the iron cannon. Then the rifled field piece. Then the steel breech loader. And as each advance was made, the armor makers countered, and developed armor which was impenetrable by the prevailing artillery.

Another absolutely perfect example is police radar. Remember radar detectors, mounted on the dash boards of unrepentant speeders? Police radar equipment had to keep adapting, to thwart each generation of the radar detectors which were fabricated by the "hackers" of that era. And the geekey designers of the detectors, who later went on to make billions in Silicon Valley, would then respond with yet another generation of more sophisticated devices which had no other function than to facilitate the breaking of the law. I can remember reflecting upon this as it was happening and sardonically muttering to myself, "Only in America!"

I have had the very great pleasure and honor of meeting Sir Edmund Hillary, the first person to climb Mt. Everest. (He was my babysitter! And that is another long, long story.) He told me about the incredible hardship of his trek and how, in fact, it left him crippled. (Each of his toes, in their turn, turned black and just fell off, and without any pain whatsoever.) And now there are Everest Tours, where well-paying and chubby adventurers are safely shepherded up the slopes and back down again.

At one point the tubular lock was considered "unpickable". That almost seems like a joke today. And, more recently, the Medeco lock assumed the mantle. But no longer.

There is the challenge and there is the challenger. And sooner or later the Goncz cuffs will be picked. Period! Probably by Patrick in The Netherlands, next year. But if not, and sooner or later, they WILL be picked.

Anonymous 29 Dec 2011

#52

IS THIS FOR REAL?

For collectors...
Why wait til the convention? Do we really need 1,000,000 posts about this til then?
Almost seems like one huge publicity stunt if you ask me. clever! =)

For Mr Goncz....
You are taking a HUGE chance of losing by waiting till convention.
It gives someone time for preparation. That makes no sense from a business stand point.

For everyone....
Does the one picking have to wear the handcuffs while trying to pick them?
just a minor detail everyone forgot to ask. kinda makes a huge difference.

Mark Lyons 29 Dec 2011

#53

Anonymous,
Yes, this is for real.
You have an inventor or a cuff that has spent countless hours designing a cuff which he believes he perfected. He honestly believes that his innovations will prohibit a working tool from opening his product.

The convention seems to be a perfect venue for this as challenger and witnesses will be all together in the same room.

Yes there is plenty of preparation time, but that is not the issue. The cuffs have been around for more than a decade and the claim is that they have never been picked nor can they be picked now. The claim is not that they can't be picked by the end of 2011.

The convention is all about handcuffs and a contest of this sort seems to be totally in order for a handcuff convention.

Many people seem to be bored by this thread. My guess is that many more have some level of interest in it. It would be my suggestion that you skip over any Goncz related postings and not come here to complain about your dislike of it.
Just as you don't like the topic, conversely, those that are indeed interested in the discussion , are not interested in your opposing feelings.

You are correct in that perhaps a time limit and the determination of whether or not they need to be locked on the wrists (in front or behind the back) needs to be addressed.
I suggest a 5 minute limit with the cuffs on the table and a 10 minute locked on the wrists (in front) be the challenge.
It should be decided between inventor and challenger to set the rules, however.

mark
O--O

Chufu 29 Dec 2011

#54

I love this thread and I am totally "hooked" on knowing the results of this. What better place is there for this and it may start a trend.
Norm

John Goncz 29 Dec 2011

#55

I will let you guys make the suggestions as the time limits, the tools can be used, on the wrist, etc. When this details are crystallizes, than I make my suggestion.

As Mark suggested 5 to 10 minutes is fine with me. The tool shall be more detailed as pick tools can be made so that 3 pc. could create a key effect.

I am confident in my design, and looking forward to the challenge.

Any body wants to be a "Booky"?. (If is legal)

Thanks for the responds on the Forum and off the Forum.

PS. If any body wants to see more of my products?: www.goncz.net

John Goncz 29 Dec 2011

#56

Norm,

Thanks for the kind words. This can be a big event: Inviting the Media for the challenge for worldwide exposure. There are some Bookies in London, that they take any bets, they probably will take bets on. I will put money On my products.

tim71 30 Dec 2011

#57

I love this thread and look forward to any insites Mr. Goncz can provide into his excellent design.

If I were a cuff maker, I'd want the challenge to mirror an official "arrested" situation. I've heard alot of people say they could pick this cuff and that cuff but in real life, if you were arrested, I doubt the police would let a person keep their tool kit with all their lock picks in it. Could be wrong but just my observations. I also doubt they would give you time to examine the cuffs and the key before they put them on you.

John, I look forward to seeing your high security design and thanks for taking part in these discussions. And like Mark said, if you don't like this thread then by all means bypass it.

Later guys!

Tim

Chufu 30 Dec 2011

#58

My Goncz,
This is all facinating to me and I am going to send this thread to my mail list for young artist to learn from.
If a performing escape artist could just get half the attention for a handcuff challenge that it looks like you guys are going to it would be a real boost for them.
I don't remember a handcuff challenge like this one in my life time.
If this is expanded on it could give inventors and artist a chance to be involved in real live challenge situations and interest and people following it will grow.
Good luck to all concerned, Norm Bigelow

Cliff Gerstman 30 Dec 2011

#59

A question that some of you may think is off topic, but is not. How many of the people posting here are in some way related to law enforcement? How many of you have talked to police officers about this before or after posting? In the case of violent offenders, police are banking their lives on the success or failure of their handcuffs.

I won't be in Holland, but I am very curious to the outcome of this little challenge. I wish all involved the best.

The reason I brought up talking to cops, is that if each of you talked to three people who are somehow involved in law-enforcement, can you imagine how much publicity you have given these cuffs? Imagine the police in 4 or 5 states, and some European countries talking about these cuffs. Wow, if the cuffs prove un-pickable, Mr. Goncz may have a sale or two headed his way. Wow.

Mark Lyons 30 Dec 2011

#60

Hi Cliff....Long time...

A problem with not only these cuffs but ALL cuffs used in the USA is not lock picks, but keys.
A key is usually easier to hide than lockpicks. It is probably easier to use as well, but as I stated, I don't spend much time picking cuffs.
Goncz cuffs use the same key that all the rest use.
In my police academy we were tested on how thorough our searches were and we learned that keys are very hard to find on a fully clothed person.
I know that my department will use the Chubb cuffs on our prisoner buses for the really mean and nasties.
As for officer safety, this is the exact reason cuffs are tested for NIJ approval. They are more concerned about strength and construction then pick-ability.
Mr. Goncz claimed that his cuffs surpassed the NIJ requirements and I believe his cuffs do. The NIJ objected to his claims as they were not tested by them. He objected in turn, by saying that he didn't need to have them test his cuffs, because he was aware of the standards and has firsthand knowledge that the materials used in his cuffs would exceed those standards.

Paying for the testing would have allowed him to state that they are NIJ approved. He merely stated that they meet or exceed NIJ requirements.

mark
O--O

John Goncz 30 Dec 2011

#61

Cliff,

good point. even if one out of million arrest failure due to the handcuffs failure it gives shiver to all the Law enforcement guy (about 1 Million), that the one they have will fail... It is a major mental problem, but the NIJ dos not addressing that, why??? because is a politically appointed office, that trying to exert power that they do not have according James Whithney PhD... The GSA contracts are requesting NIJ certificates. The old boys S&W and Peerless to my knowledge they were never tested as they were grandfathered in. I suggested them, that they should have the budget for it and the cost shall be no more than $200.-. ( But that probably would not cover tickets to games, dinners etc. You guys know what I mean.)

To keep the "Body System" in tact, by the absurd costs they created prevents technical advancements to be implemented. I guaranty that The Goncz Handcuffs are far superior to anything on the market, considering that you are boxed in by the Bureaucrats. My invention it was a "Bold move, by bypassing the swivel as the S&W have that the link is the weakest point, that in a high stress situation will fail. In my design by the looped through chain is the strongest and the most human as it still will move, whereby the hinged once it makes it impossible, thereby creating injuries that are costly as always a "Scheister" is willing to sue!!!

Well, looking forward seeing some picking tools that will be used???? I will let you guys decide , which is appropriate.

John

edgeplayusa 30 Dec 2011

#62

I agree here. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd think that having the actual certification would be a good business move. Talk is cheap. Let the paper talk for you. Yeah, easy for me to say. I don't have to shell out the $40K, but I think you'd get it back in spades.

There is a problem with the market. How many cops have been harmed by prisoners who have picked their cuffs? I'd think that risk is out there somewhere to the right of the decimal point. As someone else posted, I'd be more worried about the keys, and standard keys are de rigeur in the US. Competing with the standard brands that most cops think are adequate, may be tough.

John Goncz 30 Dec 2011

#63

When I designed the Goncz Handcuffs, I suggested to the NIJ that I will design a new key. They informed me that no-way as this would create problem as one agency passing prisoners to others and that will create problem as maybe a missing key would require the cut - off the cuffs. These goes also to the bullet proof west, where is another raquet is going on...

tim71 31 Dec 2011

#64

I read recently that the new NIJ requirements will require many more samples of each to be tested. I don't remember the exact number but it was in the double digits. Maybe 10 or 12 which at $4,000 a piece would be even more expensive than the old standard of 2 samples. I forget when it takes affect.

Anytime I've seen a handcuff broken, it's always been at the swivel. Plus if you know the technique of binding the chain, then it becomes even easier.

I've talked to 3 deputies about this and all 3 have seen "standard" cuffs broken, usually by drug influenced people.

Obviously the mechanics of the Goncz design would take a much stronger pull.

Tim

Anonymous 31 Dec 2011

#65

i love coming on here just reading this one post makes my day every day

John Goncz 31 Dec 2011

#66

Tim,

The chain link is a critical link in the Handcuffs. All the once on the market, they are manually, (by hand) welded and when that is hapeninng there are hardened spots like glass and if you hit it hard they will shatter and break.

The way we did it: bought the factory made chain in 100 feet length and when they were made by the factory, they are "fuse welded" that mean that the 2 ends were pressed together, while the edges were close to the melting point, this way the welding was perfect as the same material was fused. (In hand welding the using welding rod a different material, so the strength is compromised.) We just cut them into 3 links and have them tumbled to remove any sharp edges. Upon accomplishing that, than we had the "case hardened" for about .02 to .03 deep, thereby it made file proof as well increased the strength. In the assembly we than looped through. Some test we did to pull it apart took over 1,400 lbs. (try it with any others) to open the blade that was about 2,300 lbs.
You can see the picture that Mark posted the solid block Pawl which was made out of Chrome Alloy 4130 and heat treated for 52 Rc.

Now is shows the quality that is unmatched even by Mr. Nichols opinion... Or Alex if you read this and disagree, you welcome to post your comments.

Boldog Ujevet!!! Gluckliches neues Jahr!!!! Happy New Year!!! Feliz Navidad i Nuevo Annos!!! Srecno Novo godino!!!! etc. She, Shee!!!!

Dorson 31 Dec 2011

#67

I have been sitting on the side line reading all this and some things I agree with and other stuff I don't. First I am skeptical of manufacturers making such claims at there cuff is better or pick proof or more difficult of stuff made in the past 10 years. Put it in my hand and let me examine it and play with it for myself. Just because you say it is so many times does not make it true. It was over 20 years ago I heard about the trick of breaking the chain on chained cuffs. At first I thought this was a urban legend until I found out for myself that it does indeed work if you know how to do it. I did it first with a pair of S&W 94's in fact which are TIG welded links which is the way to go for chain links. In fact I was surprised at how little force was really required once the links were in a shear position. Those cuffs that use resistance welding of the links are even easier to shear as the welds are not that reliable and don't always fuse completely to the center core.

In regards to NIJ, there were good intentions in creating standards but yes, some politics got into it which I detest. Yes NIJ test do weed out those of what is considered sub standard but it also restricts new designs to some degree. I know NIJ had put out a request some time ago requesting suggestions on what changes need to be made. I don't know what those changes are and what stage it is in. Most of us collectors know there are cuffs that are not NIJ approved, but meet and exceed those standards considerably. One such cuff is ADI SAF-LOK. I know here in the USA, when the US Marshall's had high risk prisoners they were transporting, they used these cuffs.

As strong as the old darby's are and that distinctive hard snap sound of them locking on someone's wrist, you would think that tight a spring and the amount of force that spring exerts, that they would be secure. In my magic act, I would pretend to trip and hit the floor and the cuffs would pop open, nothing was altered about them when they were made over some 140 years ago.

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#68

I bet $25,000 Tim has a man crush on Goncz.
Atleast disagree on something for christs sake.

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#69

Sure seems like it

John Goncz 01 Jan 2012

#70

Happy new Year!!!!

Hey guys, be nice is new Year... So Chris finds the topic interesting and informing, that is plus and he is appreciating quality and ingenuity. If you guys attacking him, that is the same if you attacking me... and you do not want to do that!!!

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#71

I wish I could pay $25,000 to not here another thing about this.

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#72

This post needs to be locked ..it getting stupid.We need to be getting back to real collecting and things of interest I think someone is looking for some fame on here because the other fourms are fed up of his BS ..lock it

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#73

I would like John Goncz to answer Joe Tanner first post here.
I would like to know why he tried to claim his first cuff was pick proof but turns out not to be.
I would like to know why anyone would trust a man who keeps threatening people.
I would like to know why he claims Peerless and Smith and Wesson have stick welded chain.
I would like to know, why if his product is so good why he doesnt make it and profit a million than sell it for $25,000

John Goncz 01 Jan 2012

#74

Anonymous,

This forum visit is optional... You do not like it... take a hike... nobody is forcing you to come here!!!!

The other point for Joe. I responded to it in the beginning. HE IS A M.F.S.O.B. LIAR!!! I owe him nothing!!!!

As to the quality of the GONCZ ULTRA-Lock handcuffs I am stating, they are the best. If you do not agree: Prove it... or go to Dixie Land...

I am posting the opportunity, that you prove it, that my handcuffs are not the best.

I am also stating facts: Material strength etc. So you coming here "Jack of All Trade" and trying to play a intelligent educated person, whereby from you posting is clearly reflecting the emptiness of your "Brain capacity".

As it comes to publicity I have more than all you guys.

So Enter this Forum on your own risk as it maybe hazardous to your Intellectual Property!!!!

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#75

What about question 1 are you sending joe tanner a check for the money he lost.We have all been on this fourm for years and now you show up with a bag of BS. People from the magic cafe and the blade fourm think your full of crap and now you dump it on us.I am sure there a re many more sites out there that you have wore your welcome out at.

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#76

And being arrogant and cocky is hazardous to business.

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#77

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ebedea734d

Anonymous 01 Jan 2012

#78

http://www.complaints.com/directory/2005/june/3/25.htm

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#79

I got scammed by some P.O.S. on ebay,,,, I had valid proof... I warned people and it gets pulled down over night for what ever reason. It was for a $50 cuff with no key. I was pretty upset Joe lauher pulled it down and felt betrayed to be honest.

i couldnt imagine losing a few grand and then being called a mfsob.
Then i couldnt imagine the horrible posts not pulled down
And really couldnt imagine everyone being the scammers fluff girl.

If I or anyone else called Tanner a mfsob for a legit reason it would have gotten pulled down.
true or false?

It sucks that Mr Big Shot can waltz in and take over and treat everyone like they are stupid.
Is there any loyalty amongst us? Is everyone here transparent or is it just the people who get scammed and disrespected?

Chufu 02 Jan 2012

#80

It seems to me a collector should be interested if these cuffs are as good as Mr. Goncz claims and I have to give him credit that he is perfectly willing to let his cuffs be tested in this way. What ever the outcome the news will get around and people will know.
As far as escape artist goes unless you have the cuffs and a method of escape you should have interest in the out come.
Norm

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#81

Too bad Tanner didnt read this posting for Lajos Goncz complaint before doing business with him.

Tanner is telling the truth and all you guys should be ashamed for not sticking up for him.
Joe Tanner is someone you've people known for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont worry Joe... We got your back.
Enjoy reading the posts.

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#82

Leave the thread up so when people google Goncz it will bring up this thread.
Goncz is disrespectful of Joe Lauher and his site, everyone who reads it.

The wasn't pick proof at the start and it it won't be in the future, save your money and don't buy it.

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#83

I just read the complaint on john goncz there is so much on this guy IRS FBI BBB and many others have warnings about him

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#84

I still want a pair of his handcuffs for my collection. They are very unique. Unfortunately I am not spending a single penny on a Goncz product till he makes good on the deal with Joe Tanner.

John Goncz 02 Jan 2012

#85

I remember Joe well... He ordered handcuffs, the total amount was about $160.- or so, but it was under $200.- at that time he wanted to be the first to be served.. I told him, when is his turn, he will get his handcuffs, or I will send him back his money. He wanted the handcuffs... so I promised him that, I will compensate, him for the delay with free handcuff, which I did.

So his is talking thousand, let him post the monetary instrument(s). There was another guy was noisy was the "Black steel", that he got also extra handcuff, as well people wanted handcuffs I forwarded to him...

I am not forcing anybody to buy the Goncz Handcuffs... I am stating the facts, and if someone dos not believes it, he test it for himself. I am posting Intellectual Properties as to the material and manufacturing secrets and is free. I f anyone doubting on the statement: simply send the handcuffs to a Lab and will cost him $400.- to 500.- and he will get a certified statement as to the material.

As the guys hiding behind the screen: What a !@#$%. Any body wants to talk to me or write me I will respond as I did now many times and I will do so in the future...

John Goncz 02 Jan 2012

#86

There are some GONCZ Handcuff I believe for sale, right here on this forum... If he still wants to sell it... as the prices are going up... Better than of the Gold...

It shows that joe probably pulled this on others as no one is stating otherwise.

I know I have the best design and the quality... So anyone comment on that????

John Goncz 02 Jan 2012

#87

As, who own that site and who runs it????... I have no idea!!!
and if he dos not likes it, he can shot it down, or block my postings.

As I see most posting died out in less than 20 postings, this is the only subject, that is going viro...

joe tanner 02 Jan 2012

#88

WOW !! can GONCZ lie - lie - lie and it seems that he is most happy about it too..... many of the collectors that were collecting when GONCZ was first peddling his cuffs know full well that GONCZ is an absolute LIAR because they KNOW that i took PRE ORDERS for the cuffs bases on the FEW that i had ALREADY paid for and received..... as i said previously, i spoke to GONCZ a couple of more times and ORDERED a BUNCH of his cuffs.... i SENT GONCZ a business check for a LARGE AMOUNT -- waited and waited and waited for my orders to show up.... over the next SEVERAL months I PHONED him many many times..... he always had an excuse -- delay in manufacture or a part -- delay in this & that -- this & that.....finally, he just quit taking my phone calls !!! -- i had to REFUND money or give credit to many many people amd of course i told many of them -- WHY !!! i believe that GONZ was TRYING to get a government contract so that he could fund getting the restraints made.... he NEVER got a contract, so he kept peoples money & SCREWED ALOT OF PEOPLE....... yes, at first - he indeed have some made, but no doubt with OTHER PEOPLES MONEY !! now you know the whole truth..... as best as i can HONESTLY tell it.... joe tanner

tim71 02 Jan 2012

#89

Let's see. About the comment about me, I've never met John, wouldn't know him if I saw him. Mark Lyons can tell you how hard I was trying to find a pair of his cuffs and I finally found a pair - unfortuneately right before Mark located his pairs - and enjoy having them in my collection.

All I'm stating is the mechanical strength would be quite high and the fact that they use chromolloy steel instead of low carbon standard steels.

I've only stated the opinion on the pair I have. How can I disagree with his claims of his new design if I've never seen them? I've also never said that the escape artists can't pick the locks on his new cuffs because I've never seen either one in action.

Why am I even responding to this? If you don't like the thread then don't read the thing.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the results of this challenge.

Tim

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#90

Ok I think we all got it by now. Your cuffs are made of high strength steel (like throwing a grenade on an ant hill), they are supposedly pick proof (just like your previous pair), Youre obviously a bad businessman (base that on making a cuff that there is no demand for due to price or base it on your arrogance and false promises), You don't like Joe Tanner and say he's a liar (stand in line he's been called worse), you're advising everyone to buy these gems now because it's safer than investing in gold, lastly these are so great that you will sell the rights for $25k. I think that covers the basic summary of it ,right? Nothing more needs to be said until/unless Patrick picks the darn thing.

Leadfoot 02 Jan 2012

#91

Ahh I see The Goncz has found a new bunch of marks.

Don't you all feel a little bit sleazy and sticky?

What that feeling is is another load of Goncz,
and no, I doubt that there's any protein in it.

And why in the World Wide Web with all the information
on the Information Super Highway, did any of you fall
for his shtick?

Is the IQ of handcuff collectors that low? Shame on you.

Leadfoot

John Goncz 02 Jan 2012

#92

Joe,

You are still a M.F.L.S.O.B. as you stating your facts.

We did got government Contracts as they are the best Handcuffs.

Yes we spoke couple of times and you even recorded the conversations without my knowledge or permission and after that you tried to "blackmail me' that you will send it to the DA, because you did not received your handcuffs prior others.... You remember You LIAR M.F. On the end you were compensated for the delay also... If you sent me thousand prove it...

As the $25,000.- for the Manuscript is cheep and it will be sold shortly: confident!!! The manufacturing License and support is a different story: 20% royalty on gross sales and is still a good deal!!!!!

So if you disagree is fine and you still remain a MFSOB in my book....

Anonymous3x 02 Jan 2012

#93

This is just too good.

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#94

If tanner is a mfsob

then goncz is a csmfsob

Anonymous 02 Jan 2012

#95

Well what have we learned from the goncz page for 2012 First off shit does stack over 5ft,He has wore his welcome out on a few other forums Candlepower forum Blade forum..etc.The goverment has shut down 2 of his 3 businesses Goncz Armament Inc and Goncz Arms Inc. Goncz Hi Tec Inc the only one left.There has so much fraud no one knows where to start but when you fraud the IRS USPS (mail and wire fraud)and the BBB gives you a F business rating your screwed I guess that why he has 3 names Janos Goncz Lajos Goncz and John Goncz no wonder why the FBI has intrest in Mr Goncz.Now he says hes confident this manuscript is sold because soon he will disappear just like all the money he has got from others.He will never face the truth i guess he thought it was time after all there years to come out from under his rock only to find people do remember him and now he will soon crawl back under it.I could add more to this but it not worth it the world wide web will convince everyone what kind of a scammer he is.I do feel bad for joe and hope one day he get whats owed to him but joe dont feel your alone Goncz got another colletor to.

John Goncz 02 Jan 2012

#96

You Low Life Trash!!!! give me a name, that I owe.... As to the FBI, ATF, etc. they always know, where to get in touch with me. They are nice folks and so they have been to me for more than 30 Years. When I designed the Goncz Weapons they were there to make the weapons so that they were classified, that they were able to sell it.

As to Joe!!!(mfsob) Swear on the Bible, that I owe you anything and that you did not got compensated for the "Late delivery"... Also Swear that you did not made illegal recordings of our conversation....

From now on I will respond only to the posting, that they identify them self. The rats behind the anonymity can go straight to "Hell, where they belong".

As to my middle name "Janos" that is my confirmation name as Catholic and was given, when I as confirmed. Any body have a problem with it...

As to the bet: I am so confident in my design, that I am willing to double it. I hope that Mark is still on Board and ready to go to Holland. I will open an Escrow Account and Price & Watterhouse, CPA firm Representative will be present and clock the time. Winner takes it all.

PS. As to the CPF: the sure fire guys ganged up and tried to prove that my flashlight are not superior to anything on the market. I ad viced my attorney to shot the site down and send them Cease - Decice Letter and prepare the Injunction Motion to shot the site down in The US Federal District Court, Los Angeles. They got the message fast. Now you can not even mention the name on that forum...

christine_cuffs 02 Jan 2012

#97

Hi, enjoying this thread a lot.....One question for the pickers out there. Much has been made of the strength of the springs fitted to JG's cuffs. Now, my S+W Model 90's have what i consider to be pretty stiff springs in there. Are they any harder to pick than say Model 100's or similar due to this?.

Ian McColl 02 Jan 2012

#98

I just love the tradition and expectable behaviour of putting the words Mother phucker and Bible in the same sentence and no-one objects, but at least the quality of the steel is superior.

tim71 03 Jan 2012

#99

You don't and wont hear that from me Ian.

As for the strength of the springs what's really hard on my is the double lock. I was afraid I was going to break the key on mine. I even started a thread about it because I thought they were stuck. The regular spring feels pretty normal on my pair.

Tim

John Goncz 03 Jan 2012

#100

Ill even throw in a free flashlight.

Chicago Cap 03 Jan 2012

#101

j/k about the flashlight. That wasnt Goncz.
Start signing in so people know its you and this $50,000 challenge is legit.

I hope who ever picks it and gets Goncz's $50,000 will reimburse Tanner for his loss.
Goncz has $50,000 to gamble but wont pay his debt.

Not sure if you guys see anything wrong with that.

Goncz kinda incriminated himself by stating Tanner recorded phone conversations...
Joe Tanner must of had some sort of reason to record.

Ian McColl 03 Jan 2012

#102

Hi, my last post should have read.
"I just love the tradition and acceptable behaviour.."

Tim, you just inspired me to pull out my pair of goncz cuffs and see what I could do with them. One thing that I thought of years ago but never tried was pulling the deadlock bar back via the exposed hole in the casing (where the chain is).
So today I grabbed a piece of stright spring wire, placed in the chain hole space and slide the deadlock back. Too easy.

Mr Goncz might have a high IQ technical name for it, like MF gap I am sure he will enlighten us with his pious wording.
After releasing the deadlock, I guess you know what I did next.

Ian

PS, this makes for 100 posts for Mr Goncz. Also I am keeping a copy for history sake in case this is deleted. Email me if you want one.

Ian McColl 03 Jan 2012

#103

Just wasn't fast enough, now 102 posts.

Ian

Anonymous 03 Jan 2012

#104

Ha Ha, Ian got beat out by a Cap!

Cliff Gerstman 03 Jan 2012

#105

Uh guys...

Does anyone else on this forum agree with me that a discussion that has degenerated to "name-calling" will not gain anyone anything?

Look, test the product and let the results speak for themselves.

I would like to see this thread remain, because as Norman said, it has been a long time since we have had a real handcuff challenge. I still have no interest in reading people swearing at each other.

Mark Lyons 03 Jan 2012

#106

Cliff,
I agree.
Many seem to hate this post, so the answer is....stay awy from it.
Many do like the post and even the swearing, but that aspect of the conversation does need to be curbed and toned down a bit.
If you have an issue with John Goncz, you may be better served by stating the details of the deal here and keep it civil.
This action will probably not produce the desired results, but at least the folks here will have an idea of what went wrong and can choose if they want to enter future dealings or not.

Happy New Year!

mark
O--O

John Goncz 03 Jan 2012

#107

Mark Happy New Year!!!!

Anybody have a beef??? Show it: where is the beef??? or shot up.

Also someone stop posting under my name!!!!

As to the challenge: Learning that there is a opening between the spacer and the chain. The challenger have that not.

When the Goncz Handcuff were designed, it was for Argentina Contract that was issued by the Argentina Federal Police for 15K.

Upon designing it and delivered to RBS, Co. Sordoni, they tested the handcuffs and were happy with it and they issued the Contract.

The next Sordoni another Low Life went to Hiatt and they sold them 25 cent cheaper. So than Sordoni "Bribed the Capitan" and he replaced our handcuffs.

This was another unknown facts.

Anonymous3x 04 Jan 2012

#108

JG, you have to be sure and log in each time so it shows the post is by you.

I would certainly be interested in a pair of handcuffs that the experts here have declared to be "pick proof" ...

I always use my trusty credit card for non point of sale (pos) purchases to insure complete delivery and product satisfaction.

Have a great day.

John Goncz 04 Jan 2012

#109

Lets keep it civilized and dump the "Low Lifes". Anybody can reach me. A

As to picking the double lock from back was easy... You are an expert. I tried it and was sweating and give up.

Anonymous 04 Jan 2012

#110

Your right john lets dump the low lifes ..so be goncz and take your BS with you

John Goncz 04 Jan 2012

#111

Lajos Baratom!!!! Menjel az Anyad picsajaba es ott kukorekoljal, te faszkalap!!!!!

Ja Dump the bastards!!!!

Anonymous 04 Jan 2012

#112

Cliff states... "I still have no interest in reading people swearing at each other."

Goncz is the one using foul language and abbreviations.
He is the new sheriff in this town.

Anonymous 04 Jan 2012

#113

Lajos Göncz robaría una mosca de una araña ciega.

John Goncz 04 Jan 2012

#114

Lajos !!!

Baszd a roman kurva anyadat te bocskoros kocsog!!!

Lajos 04 Jan 2012

#115

Well he is blocked from all other sites with his swearing and lies.In the 2 weeks he has been on this site he has managed to make himself out to be exactly what what others have said in other forums and on the web.I think its time for janos goncz to seek medical help in removing his head from his anal cavatiy,his head is so far up there right now that it acts like a cork filling him up with his own waste.

Anonymous 04 Jan 2012

#116

He is so loose it still slides out.

Michael Donald 05 Jan 2012

#117

I don't understand how John is the only one getting a bad rep here. Is he not allowed to give his reply to everyone attempting to put him down? One of you stated above that the FBI and CIA are watching him. No one is hidden anymore, if he did something to get their attention, he wouldn't be here today posting on this forum. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if all the "anonymous" are really the same couple handful of people that are posting with names, just trying to validate their arguments by gaining an audience.

As far as to the guy talking to John in Hungarian, you sound like a Romanian (thank you Google translate), at least according to John, making it so you will always be happy to take enemy and have a hate towards anything that comes from Hungary.

I'm not picking sides, just trying to clear things up.

Michael

Chufu 05 Jan 2012

#118

I can't speak to all the foul talk after what I write but at least someone could leave a name. I am wondering if this challenge will ever happen. Norm ???????????

Tom Gross 05 Jan 2012

#119

It must have been 5 days since I last visited the forum. When I last looked, before the New Year, everything was amicable and everybody was looking forward to the picking challenge at the European Convention. I just visited again and saw that the number of posts on this thread had tremendously increased. As I was scrolling down to see what was new, it didn't take me long to realize that the acrimony had returned, because I happened to pause just where Mr. Goncz was exclaiming, "You Low Life Trash!!!!".

Yes, I had to chuckle. Good Lord, you chaps have been busy!

Next Fall, at the European Convention, Mark will either appear with a set of the new Goncz handcuffs, or he won't. If the cuffs appear, Patrick will either pick them or he won't. Why don't we just leave it at that, and wait to see what happens?

joe tanner 06 Jan 2012

#120

GONCZ - i have noticed that you have side stepped my swearing on a stack of bibles... of course you did as you KNOW that you are nothing more then a crook and liar... no need for you to respond as we already know what you are.... joe

John Goncz 06 Jan 2012

#121

Joe as you can see it I was away, but I saw your answer... You are a straight MFL. You swore on the Bible, that you did not recorded the telephone conversation... The facts are that upon you received the handcuffs and the compensatory once, than to the telephone recordings you added you slimy txt to it and send it to The Los Angeles District Attorney, who saw it that no criminal intent was present and no criminal offence was committed, therefore he sent me the whole package with the recording tape.

You are a MFSOB LIAR and you have guts to swear on the Bible. next time I shall or anybody else shall ask for you to swear on a "Totem Pole".

Joshua 06 Jan 2012

#122

The longer this crap goes on the worse we look as a collecting community...leave it as Tom stated and lock this thread. I'm sure folks at the European convention will post the outcome if indeed Mark arrives with a pair. Certainly we can find more interesting and/or informative things to write about.

Anonymous 06 Jan 2012

#123

I DISAGREE

Keep the thread alive as some information that does come out will be beneficial.
The name calling needs to stop and it needs to stop now!

Ian McColl 06 Jan 2012

#124

Are your name is? who disagree......

Michael Donald 06 Jan 2012

#125

There is no real reason to shut this forum down. It seems John is only replying to people bad mouthing him. It's not mandatory to come to this thread and post that.. is it? Would you guys let someone talk trash about yourself without replying?

Let the thread die if you guys don't want it on the front page.

Michael

The Disagree'er 06 Jan 2012

#126

It does not matter who I am.
I come here to read everything.
If it were not for the bad words, I would say that most everything else is appropriate and fit to be print.

If you don't like it, don't read it!
TD

Ian McColl 06 Jan 2012

#127

Dear TD,
There are people or come to this site to offer up, share and impart knowledge. They are the real collectors and those who make this site work and for most part are those who respect what Joe L has give us and make this site work.
The there are those who use this site whole for their self gain or a place to noticed. Then they are those who are very willing to take, they read and never give back.
There are those who won't put their name behind their comments but feel that other should take them seriously or valid.
If you dont have a real name that will show up every time you post or via an email anyone can contact you on, then you are just as fictitious as Captain Kirk and just as believable.

TD 06 Jan 2012

#128

Captain Kirk is fictitious?

TD

handboeienfreak 06 Jan 2012

#129

hi

wow 128 posts now

only a few days away and see what happens

i like this post

don't like the fight

this october 6th in the Netherlands we have the euro handcuff convention
next week or so we will let you know where you can sign in for it

best

patrick

Anonymous3x 06 Jan 2012

#130

And now Captain Kirk is being attacked?

Oh say it isn't so.

Unresolved image reference ↗

Anonymous3x 06 Jan 2012

#131

I have included my email address so if anyone wants to comment about my post they can feel free to do so.

Happy to make post number 130

John Goncz 07 Jan 2012

#132

Patrick !

Happy New Year! I hope you had a nice Sylvester as they are always nice in Holland.

I believe that you can pick any handcuffs including my, but I still challenging You to pick the one that I will present.

So, that is no misunderstanding; let start to put down some ground rules and every body is welcome to pitch in. Some criteria shall be established like;

1.) Handcuffs on
2.) Handcuffs front or back
3.) The type of Handcuffs: / Chain linked / Semi Hinged / Hinged /
3.) The tool, that can be used
4.) The time for picking
5.) Any advance looking of the handcuffs
6.) The judges to establish the winner

The above's are important and to eliminating any misunderstanding. Every body is welcome to add or subtract from the proposal.

Mark Lyons 07 Jan 2012

#133

In the year 3476, the Klingon guards found Kirk and Spock wandering around and arrested them for indecent exposure.
Luckily they had Black-Oxide Goncz cuffs marked KNP-CST (Klingon National Police-Court Service Transportation).
The Captain of course could not pick the pick proof cuffs and even Scotty could not beam them off.
The Klingons were able to take the shirtless duo to the Klingon Klink where they awaited trial and were found guilty.
Stay tuned for next weeks episode.

mark
O--O

Unresolved image reference ↗

tim71 07 Jan 2012

#134

I've always thought these challenges should replicate the experience in which they would be used. In other words I say the cuffs should be on the escape artist in question.

#2. Shouldn't be allowed to have a whole tool chest because if you were arrested, they wouldn't let you keep it.

#3. Shouldn't be allowed to examine the key or cuffs very closely, because again, I doubt the cops would let you look at the key.

#4. Any picks should be concealable because that's the only kind you should be able to get access to in a real "incarcerated" situation.

The cuffs should be able to be opened with a key and be proved to function in that fashion.

As for the hinged, or chain. I don't know. Up to you guys.

Oh yeah, cuffs should still be functional after the challenge. In other words, no sawing them off but no producing some cuffs that don't have a keyhole either.

In the spirit of tradition, in front of the body would be okay I think.

That's my opinion.

grenchat 07 Jan 2012

#135

Both "Star Trek" and "Lost in Space" featured an episode that addressed the dark side of human nature.

[size=300] The Anti-Matter Man

[/size]

Unresolved image reference ↗

Mark Lyons 07 Jan 2012

#136

Next week's preview:
Klingon handcuff challengers test the new intergalactic Goncz cuff on Kirk (who was released from Klingon jail on a technicality) and McCoy aboard the USS Enterprise as they make their way to Rotterdam for the real challenge.

mark
O--O

Unresolved image reference ↗

Tom Gross 08 Jan 2012

#137

Here are my thoughts on Mr. Goncz' request that the parameters be defined, as far as the picking challenge in Europe.

Mr. Goncz advertised his cuffs as "unpickable". Period! This was not qualified. And this was the challenge which Patrick accepted. Any attempt to now impose extra conditions on Patrick might be interpreted as an attempt to weasel out of what looks like a bad bet.

All of you who have attended the European Handcuff Convention know that attempts at lockpicking have always taken place with the cuff laid out on a table and the picker having been given ample opportunity to examine them, and familiarize himself with their operation. This is the common practice and I suggest that this is the only way to proceed in the instant case. And common practice has always been for the picker to use any and all tools which he chooses. After all, either they are "unpickable" or they are not.

If the object is to belatedly impose arbitrary obstacles on Patrick, why don't we provide that he must attempt the picking in total darkness while wearing gloves. Or that the only instrument he can use is a soup ladle? If the purpose is to approximate the conditions under which most criminals might attempt picking, why don't we provide that Patrick must conduct the picking after having been beaten half to death with nightsticks and laying bloody in the back seat of a police cruiser.

That is not what this exercise is all about. Patrick has accepted the challenge as it was originally offered, without qualifications. In this respect at least, I consider that the deal is made. If Mr. Goncz wishes to back out, under these conditions, that is his business.

Now, if after picking them at a table, Patrick should WISH to attempt picking the cuffs while wearing them, or while somebody else is wearing them, that is strictly Patrick's business. I fully expect that this will happen. But that will be gravy, and no part of the original challenge.

With the foregoing in mind, the configuration of the handcuffs (chain, hinged, etc.) is immaterial. Whatever cuffs are provided by Mr. Goncz will be the subject of the challenge.

We could arbitrarily specify some time limit, but I really don't think that this will be necessary. Maybe we could specify 15 minutes. I suspect that the contest will be decided long before the expiration of that time, by the notoriously short attention span of handcuff collectors. I predict that, after having watched Patrick make unsuccessful attempts for less than 10 minutes, there will be mutterings from the crowd of, "He can't do it!", or "Goncz wins!".

The judges will be everybody in the room, including the ladies who serve us coffee and snacks. (We are getting snacks, aren't we Patrick?)

So, these are my thoughts on parameters for the challenge.

John Goncz 08 Jan 2012

#138

Tim, you are side stepping what I said: I provide a pair of Handcuffs that is GONCZ and go ahead to picking it. Initially I challenged $25 K, but if is needed $50 is fine with me. The previous posting was to set parameter and nothing else. You starting to attack me again personally. If you have any suggestion is fine , otherwise stay out of the ring as is my reputation and my money is on the table... and act accordingly. You can yap - yap, when is your money on it.

So let us set the parameters!!!!! NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!@#$%^&*()

tim71 08 Jan 2012

#139

Tom,

Those were just my suggestions and nothing else. John asked for opinions on that and I gave it.

John, not sure what you mean. Were you referring to Tom's post? If you were talking about mine, I was simply making suggestions as to what I saw as a propper challenge. I didn't mean any personal attacks to anybody involved.

Those were my suggestions for what it's worth.

Tim

Anonymous 08 Jan 2012

#140

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It meant for Gross...

Tim you are a nice guy.

John Goncz 08 Jan 2012

#141

Ops forgot the Name Ano.. Goncz

Michael Donald 08 Jan 2012

#142

As I see it, John is the one putting up the deal. He should have the say in the rules.

Michael

Anonymous 08 Jan 2012

#143

Really, that's how you see it? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Chufu 09 Jan 2012

#144

I am impressed that Mr Goncz is willing to have his cuffs tested like this. If both parties reach some aggement that would be great. Without trying to start anything I don't understand some ideas.
This is about a pick proof lock in a cuff. So I can't see how it matters about how the police would put them on a person.
One thing has nothing to do with another. It is about the lock being pick proof not about being in a position so you cant pick it. That would prove nothing about the lock.
Also I can't understand why there is a time limit. Let's say the convention was open for eight hours. The person is locked in when the convention is open and has until the close of the day.
What is the problem. If the cuffs are really pick proof they will be at the end of the day as they will in the beginning.
Norm

Andy-58 09 Jan 2012

#145

Hello,
i agree to Norman Bigelow. Also a pickproof lock remains a pickproof lock if you can get such a lock in advance so you have a lot of time to analyze it. If it is not allowed to have the lock before test it is only "security by obscurity", this has failed every time in history... I have a lot of Abloy locks (Protec), i have complete documentation about this locks with description, assembly drawings, coding tables etc. and it is still a very secure lock. Same is for many safe locks, you can analyze them (e.g. Kromer Protector and many more) and it is still extremely difficult to pick them.

On convention i will again present my self made darby cuffs with Abloy Protec lock:http://www.andys-handschellensammlung.d ... 105_en.htm until now nobody have picked them...

Best regards
Andy-58

John Goncz 09 Jan 2012

#146

Andy,

Thanks for the comment, which dos not add up to much... If you want get in and pick it.

Junge, das geht so when du wills, lege das Geld aufs Tisch und dan rede...

John / Johan

Chufu 09 Jan 2012

#147

I have no dog in this fight and I am retired. I am also satified because three high grade cuff experts said they can pick these cuffs and I know two of these guys who would not lie about a cuff which they could be tested with an proved they lied.
One thing that bothers my instincts from years of eperience seeing many and being involved with many cuff challenges is that every cuff challenge that came before the test rules either never came about or someone was trying to gain an edge after the fact. Pickproof cuffs need no edge.
Are they pick proof or even pick resistant? If they can be picked as described or even as fast as claimed they are another piece of security junk. I hope we find out what the truth is..
Then the last thing is Mr Goncz. He gets so intolerent and says things like a post dosn't mean anything regard his cuffs and dismisses it as non sense.
Mr Goncz told one person something like get out of my busines or stay out of it because he did not like their post. I really can't fathom a business man writing in public to represent his product as he does.
But he made all of this public business when he made this challenge on this site.
Now that is my opinion and any one who knows me knows I am being nice and not trying to trash anyone. I don't gamble with money. But in symbol I am betting against the cuffs because those who made claims of picking have far more crediblity than Mr Goncz thus far on this thread. Good luck to all involved.
Norm

John Goncz 09 Jan 2012

#148

NORMAN, Thank is a fair posting...

I am standing behind my challenge, now just crystalize the details. If I was able to design sub-machine guns from 0 /zero/ I am
confident that the handcuffs will withstand any picking.

So let set the details...

John

PS. If any body attacks me personally: He can go straight to Hell...

joe tanner 09 Jan 2012

#149

i would have thought that by now someone would have suggested the following........ lets take a poll of how many people think that GONCZ should immediately send the handcuffs to a well respected and honest collector who will hold onto the UNOPENED package until the cuffs are needed for examine and picking.... to insure the UNOPENING, package could be shipped by REGISTERED mail with SPECIAL type or something like that -- photos would be taken of the package by GONCZ and then the receiver could also take photos..... then when the get together takes place - both sets of photos can be compared to show no TAMPERING of the package...... this way GONCZ can not make or have made a DIFFERENT handcuff that would actually work, but be plugged on the INSIDE ... how about it .... joe

tim71 10 Jan 2012

#150

For those who disagree with my opinions, that's fine. That's just my opinion and nothing more.

If I were allowed to examine the key and cuffs for a period of time, couldn't I just go to a machinist, and have a 3d scan made of the key and have them make a new key for me then I could "pick" the cuffs. Maybe cut the end off the key and mount it to a pick handle?

I've never witnessed one of these challenges first hand though so I'm sure it will be fair no matter what.

It's be neat to see.

Tim

Mark Lyons 10 Jan 2012

#151

Amazing.

This thread seems to be endless.
This is the 150th post on the tread and I believe is a record here on the forum.

Good ideas are being presented for the challenge and I am documenting most of them. I will list restrictions for the challenge, such as time allowed, tools allowed, locked on wrists or not, can the cuffs be examined beforehand?, etc.
I will list the choices and see what the collecting community thinks by way of a vote and ask the chalenger and chalengee if they agree. Any disagreements can be heard and eventually the rules will be set.
We still have time to work on this so keep your ideas coming.

mark
O--O

Vince 10 Jan 2012

#152

Hi all,

If the challenge pertains to the locking principal alone, by right, the cuff should be allowed for beforehand casual inspection. My reasoning is when Medeco locks came out they were billed as pickproof, but as time progressed, people learned the inner workings better, and as we all know today, Medeco is is only highly pick resistant, notwithstanding that it is still used on the White House as well as on other high profile locations around the globe.

You wanted public comments - that was mine!

Good luck to all involved with the challenge,
--Vince

PS. "pick resistance" is only a measure of TIME, TOOLS, & TECHNIQUE.

Tom Gross 10 Jan 2012

#153

Adam Bush 10 Jan 2012

#154

Is the handcuff supposed to be a high security handcuff or just a standard key handcuff?

Chufu 10 Jan 2012

#155

In all my years I have never known any basic rules for cuff challenges other than inspection and must be in good working order. I agree this is between those involved. At the end this may formulate some rules that escape artist could use as a guide line.
I suggest this thread be sent to everyone in escapes. I have done one mailing of the link. This is by far one of the most interesting handcuff challenges that I have seen.
Norm

Mark Lyons 10 Jan 2012

#156

Mark, hi! It's well that you are keeping track of all the various ideas, and it would certainly be helpful if you would, at your convenience, post a summary which separates the wheat from the chaff. But I don't think it is our place to vote on any details about how the challenge should be conducted. I think that is a matter which is exclusively the business of Mr. Goncz and Patrick.

If Mr. Goncz wishes to back off from his original unqualified challenge, and impose other conditions, that is his business. But, and perhaps making use of your summary, Mr. Goncz should spell out the exact conditions under which he wishes the picking to take place. Then it will be strictly up to Patrick to accept or decline. I think, by virtue of his courage to speak up, Patrick should have the first shot. If he should decline, or if he should try and fail, perhaps there will be other challengers.

Adam Bush
Re: Goncz Handcuffs Manuscript for Sale January 10 2012, 12:16 PM

Is the handcuff supposed to be a high security handcuff or just a standard key handcuff?

Norman bigelow
Goncz Handcuffs January 10 2012, 2:19 PM

In all my years I have never known any basic rules for cuff challenges other than inspection and must be in good working order. I agree this is between those involved. At the end this may formulate some rules that escape artist could use as a guide line.
I suggest this thread be sent to everyone in escapes. I have done one mailing of the link. This is by far one of the most interesting handcuff challenges that I have seen.
Norm

Tom,
As I have never been involved in such a thing as this, I will agree with you that the 2 parties should lay out the challenge. My poll can be used as an outline for them to use, and they can check off any ideas they don't like or can use it to guide them in the challengee.

Adam, the cuff does take the standard cuff key we all know and love.

Norman, Thanks for your input on this and I believe this tread can be useful to many others, as long as the bad mouthing seems to be curtailed.

mark
O--O

Chufu 10 Jan 2012

#157

Thank you Mark. I think this an important challenge for the escape world and don't want it ruined over arguments. Here is the real intersting part.
In escape art there are set up cuff challenges that are fake, there are real challenges in cases when police bring there own cuffs, once in a while some private citizen may bring a pair to a show, some times a magician will bring a pair to get the escape artist, sometimes escape artists get into it with each other in a cuff challenge but I just don't remember when anyone has been in direct challenge with someone (manufacturer) who actually makes the cuff.
It may have happened but I think it is rare and I just can't seem to recall it. That's why I want young escape artist to watch this. This is how a real challenge should LOOK! And these guys may end up with more attention than most escape artist out there over a pair of cuffs.
I think if this takes place it will after all these years put the frosting on the cake for me in handcuff challenges regardless of who wins. The escape world should talk about this everywhere. Norm

Tom Gross 10 Jan 2012

#158

This is a response to Adam's question about the key.

We have been discussing, at length, a set of Goncz high-security handcuffs. I have broached this issue before, but never got a definite answer; do these cuffs exist at this moment? Have they actually been made, or are they just a concept at the present time? And, if the latter, how can anybody be sure about what key they might ultimately take?

Adam Bush 10 Jan 2012

#159

I think they should switch the standard key to as small as the S&W 104 key without the extra hook on top. That would make standard cuffs that much harder to pick, considering it's not too difficult to pick standard cuffs anyway.

tim71 11 Jan 2012

#160

Okay I've thought more about this. The only thing I'd feel VERY strong about is that the key should be able to remain totally hidden until after the challenge to prove they can be opened - that's if Patrick is not successful.

Reason? Whether or not a lock can be picked shouldn't depend on the existance of a key. I mean, if I lock myself out of my house and call a lock-smith, does he need to see the key first?

I'd be okay with the cuffs being examined (casually) but examining the key shouldn't be necessary if you can pick the lock.

And I have no idea what John has in store; they may even take a standard key who knows, but if I were him, I'd keep it that way until the challenge was finished one way or another.

To me the challenge should be looking at the lock, trying to figure it out, then picking the lock. Examining the key makes it a whole other challenge. Heck, just keep some different size steel stock, then spend the time filing out a new key / pick.

But again, that's my humble opinion.

All the best!

Tim

handboeienfreak 11 Jan 2012

#161

Hi

post 160 wow

first when we start this post we talk about a goncz standard "pickproof" cuff
what i tried to pick and succesfull in my hands
i told everybody i will show this at the convention no big deal
now we talk about how to do are they high security
is the person handcuffed etc. etc.
i can't follow it anymore what is now the challange
are we talk about the standard "pickproof" goncz cuffs
or is there a new model
for me i'm a simple guy i do not need money for the challange
and do not want to point someting out
and i do not want to pay for the challange
i will show you all at the convention how i pick the goncz cuff
and if there is a new cuff i will try to pick this cuff too
no big deal that is my opinion on this
i do not have to proof something on this
for me this whole this starts with a joke
i though that i was not able to pick a cuff (i never tried)
i do not have original picktools (i used 2 dental tools)
what i use for cleaning handcuffs
and i was amazed about myself i could pick the goncz cuff
and reply that here in this treat
for me if there is a new cuff bring it to the convention 6th october
in the netherlands and i will try it in hand
and with a max of 15 minutes and with the tools i like

best

patrick

Tom Gross 11 Jan 2012

#162

Cool! That settles that! If Patrick's terms are not agreeable, then perhaps Mr. Goncz will not send a sample of his cuffs to The Netherlands. If he does, great! If not, great also!

This thread has become absurd. If I have anything else to say, I'll say it in The Netherlands.

Thanks Patrick.

John Goncz 12 Jan 2012

#163

Tom, great.. who are you????? pretending that you have anything to decide on. I will put up the handcuff and you with your big mouth: PUT UP THE Money or be polite and keep your dictatorial statements to yourself as has no weight and nobody was asking for.

Patrick will try to pick it and someone will take the Denaro or Euro and than we got to the Canal District / section / and have good Champain and you Tom will receive a "Golden Shower" and I will pay for that one.

John

Joshua 12 Jan 2012

#164

Since English is not your first language, I'll try and decipher this for you. Patrick sounds more than happy to accept your challenge as a gentlemans bet...meaning no Denaros or Euros involved. A simple test to back up your statement of them being pick proof.

On a side note, Tom is well respected collector who most of us hold more weight in what he has to say over what comes out of your mouth. Now me....well I'm a nobody with a very very modest collection so my words mean little. No need to respond to me, call me a name, or challenge my education as I don't give a darn about any modern swing arm cuff or the challenge in of itself.

amazing010 12 Jan 2012

#165

I have held my tounge for far too long on this subject and now I am going to add my two cents.

This challenge is beyond absurd......it is laughable to such an extent that I am amazed anyone has taken it seriously at all. If Mr. Goncz wants to test his cuff, look no futher.

I am The Amazing Michael, Former Professional Escape Artist/Magician, Locksmith, Safe Cracker, and one bas-ass lock and cuff breaker......and I will be happy to put your cuff to the test! Bring your cuff, or send it with whomever you wish, to the Crossroads of America Antique Padlock and Restraint show in Indianapolis, Indian this April and I will crack it or give it my seal of approval.

Don't try to hide behind a big money bet because you will not get it; that is not how these types of challenges work (take a look at Medeco, Chubb, Bramah, etc. to see how companies test "pick proof" locks in this type of challenge).

My tools, my way, all you have to do is supply the cuffs.....and if I crack them, I keep them.

If you are serious about putting them to the test, I offer my time and attention free of charge. If your cuffs are what you say they are, then you shouldn't have anything to fear.

Mike D~C/

John Goncz 12 Jan 2012

#166

Michael,
I am standing behind my designs. As to other handcuffs you guys are naming, I do not have the slightest idea of some of them. I consider myself as good engineer, that created products that are standing on its own. (Some magazines calling me a genius) I am challenging to pick them and instantly was a big fire and now is to establish the rules and parameters and the spectrum it will take place simple.

Patrick from his postings I judge him as a "Fliegende Hollander"... and is capable probably picking iy. He stated , that he dos not wants any money, but there will be expenses and it needs to be covered.

Initially was that a group will raise the funds and done deal... Suddenly bunch of smart asses are trying to side track the project, with comments about my spelling etc... whoo cares about the spelling??? ,,, read the content of it....

I do not prove read the text: typed ... gone!!!! Some of you guys have time to waste I am busy as can be with the new Laser aiming systems and infra-red lights for the military etc.

There is still one posting that i will answer at soon to Lajos, who is a MF Olah, that includes the romanians , the gypsies. Caution if he gets close to you guys: One hand on the pocket, the other on the ass as he will rob you or f...ck you!!!!!!!!

Joshua 12 Jan 2012

#167

What expenses? The cost of the cuff? What else? I tell you what, if you provide the cuff to either Michael or Patrick and they can't pick it, I'll pay for the cuff. Then when it's done I'll either give the cuff away to Damon or throw it in the trash.

Time to waste....you've posted 33 times!

Rob 12 Jan 2012

#168

Joshua i heard if you pay for the handcuff you will never get it.

John Goncz 12 Jan 2012

#169

Yoshua,

The going price for the regular Goncz Handcuffs are $250.- each. Why should I give you $250.- and than you through it into water...??? What a Jocker????. Are you bin drinking or smoking or eating some mushrooms???? This is not a charity site!!!! It took me lot of money and time to design the Goncz Handcuffs and over $100K for the tooling and I shall give you free handcuffs???? To many person I give free complimentary handcuffs that they deserved, but you not one of them!!!!!

Joshua 12 Jan 2012

#170

What do you mean free...who said anything about free (you need to work on your translation skills perhaps) I said that I will pay for the cuff if indeed they can't be picked. If however either person picks the cuff then they should get to keep it as its been done for many years. The only way you lose your $250 is if they show that you're full of it and your cuff is not pick proof. If they fail, then credit goes your way and I will happily pay the $250. I personally do not want your cuff nor would have any use for it other than an ugly paperweight. It's a very simple solution that a genius engineer such as yourself should be able to understand.

amazing010 13 Jan 2012

#171

I think Joshua's offer was misunderstood.....I think what he is saying is if Mr. Goncz sends the cuff and I pick it opened and get to keep it (as I stated in my post), then Joshua will pay Mr. Goncz for the cuff so he is not out any money.

By the way, I will also sweeten the pot.......I will offer my pair of first working prototype tricked handcuffs, that I designed last year, to Mr. Goncz if I fail the handcuff challenge. Mr. Goncz is free to do with them what he wants, sell them, use them as a trophy, whatever. I will also give him permission to sell the design to a developer of magic props or anyone else who would want to buy the design if he wins. Looks like it is a win-win for Mr. Goncz.

I will post details about the Lock Show here on the forum as I did last year so Mr. Goncz will know when and where to show up or where to send the cuffs to.

Mike D~C/

John Goncz 14 Jan 2012

#172

Rob!!!!

You go and play Mama and Papa, with your mother!!!!!!

Comprede??????

Fred G Sanford 17 Jan 2012

#173

As I told you brown nosing fools earlier... My money is on Amazing Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im glad to see he finally took the challenge.

If Amazing Michael doesnt get the opportunity.. ITS ONLY CAUSE GONCZ IS A CHICKEN AND THIS WHOLE THING IS A SCAM/publicity stunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

p.s.
And the G does NOT stand for GONCZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Goncz 17 Jan 2012

#174

you can play with my mama but youll need a clothespin for your nose.

Sgt Slaughter 17 Jan 2012

#175

If our military is trusting lazers from a person who cant even spell...
WE ARE ALL DOOMED!!!!!

1. Goncz will probably print the instructions backwards.
2. The chargers wont work...
3. We wont even get them.

amazing010 17 Jan 2012

#176

Fred G, thanks for the vote of confidence! BTW, I still love the flare you bring to the board when you post. You big dummy!!! LOL!

Cheers, Mike D~C/

Anonymous 17 Jan 2012

#177

Unresolved image reference ↗

Anonymous 18 Jan 2012

#178

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/archiv ... 24547.html

Anonymous 18 Jan 2012

#179

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/ga ... 0/1457.htm

Fred G Sanford 20 Jan 2012

#180

and the G stands for...

GIVE THE HANDCUFFS TO MICHAEL SO HE CAN PICK THEM.

Tom Gross 20 Jan 2012

#181

Every time I see that a new post has been added to this thread, I have to check to see what it's about. It's some kind of perverse human compulsion, like when you drive past a really bad car wreck; you know you're not going to like what you see, but you can't NOT look.

Here is what I have noticed. Mr. Goncz has been quiet recently. But that doesn't suit some troublemakers, who continue to bait him. Can't we let sleeping Gonczes lie? Why continue to provoke his fiery Hungarian gypsy temper?

John Goncz 20 Jan 2012

#182

Mr. Gross,

You are so full of hot air, that you are floating in the Air!!!!
Nobody is inviting you to post your "Low life" "Low IQ" statements. If you want to say something say it or "stick it". You are just a pest.

You want the challenge put up the $$$$$ and i will let anybody of your choice pick it.

But I will be nice to You: You earned 2 "Golden Showers"!!!!!!

PS. The reason I was Quite as I was in Las Vegas exhibiting.

John Goncz 20 Jan 2012

#183

Mr. Gross,
Forgot to answer your gypsy comment.

The gypsies are part of your familly, with many tricks: when you were born by a "sloth": everybody was waiting for you from vagina, but you fooled every body as you came from the "rectum".... but now you just smelling continuously as !@#$%^&*. Just get lost "Arschficker"!!!!!!! Verstanden kleine!!!!!

Tom Parker 21 Jan 2012

#184

Joe, you should stop this thread now, it has gone too far with this kind of comments.

Anonymous 21 Jan 2012

#185

WHAT!!!!??? and it hadn't before........
Get real bro. Leave it alone. It's nice to see people acting normally.

Mickey D 21 Jan 2012

#186

As a new collector and member of this board, this thread is embarrasing and pathetic.

Vinonymous 21 Jan 2012

#187

When a person is offering a product or service for sale, he/she is actually selling him/her self, beit their personality, charm, or intellectual knowledge. If you go into an electronics store, as a potential customer, and one of the clerks is actin-a-fool using language best reserved for an 18th century seaman, you will probably be automatically less interested in the newfangled gigaphone that the barnacle breath behind the counter is trying to peddle.

PS.^ vul-gar-ism /'vel-ge-,ri-zem/ n 1 :VULGARITY 2 : a word or expression originated or used chiefly by illiterate persons 3 : a coarse expression : OBSCENITY

Take care
--Merriam Webster

John Goncz 21 Jan 2012

#188

I am not selling anything, the manuscript is no longer available. If somebody attacks me : he sellected the wrong person here as I am not taking any s///// from anybody. Some "Low Life Nobodies" are trying to be important by blah, blah attacking me.

So I have the challenge and just put up the $$$$$$ and see who wins????

Nothing else!!!!

John Goncz 21 Jan 2012

#189

Tom Parker!!!?????
who are you?????

If you do not like the site : go somewhere else.. Did anybody forcing you to be here????

So take a hike!!!!!

Joshua 21 Jan 2012

#190

How many people are you going to verbally attack? How long is this going to be allowed? My posts have been removed for far less. John, you need a lesson in professionalism and civility. I've already stated that I'm a nobody...however I am an engineer as well, with plenty of education and an IQ I assure you high enough. You chose to post this thread here and therefore open yourself up to scrutiny on your cuff and your reputation. Both of which you could've defended and perhaps proven people wrong. No matter what happens with your handcuff, your reputation amongst collectors and buyers was obviously well earned. At any point in time have you gone back and looked at what you've posted. Try it, read it aloud, and perhaps then what I'm saying will hit home...although I doubt it.

handboeienfreak 21 Jan 2012

#191

Hi

Normally i would'nt respond anymore on this but

mr gonzc your verbalism is way out of range you attack everybody
and hide yourself after big $$$$$$ for what you want to prove something
you get personel on some of my friends

first tom gross is one of the good respectable collectors
and i think if you want to prove your state ment about your cuffs
and want to show this in the netherlands you have to clean your mouth first
second ian is a respectable lock smith (and many more) and if i trust someone he is
than we have joe tanner is believe if he say you own him money or cuffs whatever
i think he is right
everyone who say something about your challange and do not want to pay is a bad guy to you
i do not understand what money has to do with the fact your cuffs are piuck proof??? what you said
in most of your posts here you are rude and not human
my invitation stands if you want to come to the netherlands go to the european convention topic
go the the link there and sign in
and if you come i want that you behave yourself

best patrick

btw post 180

amazing010 21 Jan 2012

#192

Lets end all this bullshit smack talk on the forum. Bring (or send) the cuffs to Indy in April and all the talking will end. I am eagerly awaiting the moment when I can get a look at these "marvels of the modern handcuff age" and have my way with them. I hope I am not disappointed due to the big build-up going on here.

Mike D~C/

Fred G Sanford 21 Jan 2012

#193

Here in the great city of WATTS.... Golden Showers are like drinking warm ripple or cheap champagne.
Combine em both and we call it Champimple! Goncz's gypsy relatives can be found hanging outside the local corner store swigging from brown paper bags and slinging dice just waiting to bust a lip open for some fresh sun baked champimple. So Goncz, show some respect for your gypsy relatives... you big dummy. The $25,000 you have is all donated change anyways.

I know Im ruffling your feathers you chicken.
No golden showers needed for me Goncz. I drink gin and juice. However...I could use some scat for Aunt Esters face and we shall call this beautiful makeover... a mudpack! So grab a shovel and scoop up that steamy pile of crap you call a high security handcuff and bring it with your $25,000 to Indi! $25,000 will buy every relative you have a warm bottle of piss.

The G does NOT stand for Golden Showers.... Nor does it stand for Goncz!

It stands for .... Get on your GOAT and get to Indianapolis!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GYPSY!

John Goncz 21 Jan 2012

#194

Fred,

As the gypsies are in Your family tree, therefore you are familiar with their customs. In Hungary they are bunch of them. Now they are emigrating to Canada and some to the kangooro Country as equalizers.

Knowing them and your posting is mirroring their MO, therefore open an escrow account for $25,000.- and st the rules and you got a deal. Otherwise take a hike...

Anonymous 22 Jan 2012

#195

Goncz,
Just get your Goat and travel east!

John goncz 22 Jan 2012

#196

Patrick,

You are giving me a lecture?????

From the beginning I was attacked by Joe, who still remains a MFSOB liar. He even swore on the Bible / as you read he spelled the Bible with small letter./ We produced over 15,000 handcuffs and over 1,000 Prisoner Transportation Chains and bunch of experimental. You think, that from that quantity would be not shipped???

As to Ian, he is the Alpha Dingo and the British were right when they shipped the garbage to Australia, he started to bark and initially I ignored him, but he kept barking and when he got the answer, than run to his mama crying /for him the civilisation past him by!!!!!!!!????? I do not respect him, as I see him "just alpha dingo".

And the gross is "nur eine kleine Luml" and in Amsterdam he will get the 3 "Golden showers". For me hi is just a " little punk" with lot's of hot air

You guys bunch of big mouth, without the gats. Put up the $$$$$$ and than the rules and you can pick it. As I see it you are backing out of the deal. What a "Tulip Boy"????

What a bunch of Pollos???? It looks like every jerk thinks that this is his "sand box" and if he get sand into the eyes, than crying "mamma"...

Fact: Put up the $$$ Dinero / mullahs, Euros, pounds, kangaroo $$$$$/ and open the cuffs. I am even challenging for $50,000.-

Tom Gross 22 Jan 2012

#197

I have never met Mr. Goncz, nor have I ever done business with him. He owes me no money or anything else. I had a vague acquaintanceship with his name, as a brand of handcuffs. Other than that, and prior to all this hoopla, he was completely absent from my consciousness. If you note the fourth post on this thread, you will see that I was actually stunned by the venom which had been spewed at him. I'm no longer stunned, and I now fully understand the reason that Goncz is held in contempt by so many.

Evidently, at one point or another, I made the faux pas of expressing an opinion which did not fit exactly with Mr. Goncz' agenda. The result was a vicious and insane attack by this sad and angry man, who may have been made bitter by a life of failures and broken dreams. Whatever made him what he is, Goncz is now clearly psychotic.

I realize, as I believe many others do, that there aren't going to be any super-duper, revolutionary Goncz handcuffs presented for a picking competition in The Netherlands. Whatever the ridiculous excuse (stolen by a Chicago cop?) they just aren't going to show up. Those cuffs are just another of his delusions. Norm is right; Patrick has won by default. We'll have a great time at the European Convention anyway and most of us will have completely forgotten the name Goncz before we arrive at Patrick's event.

Perhaps my prediction is wrong. But let it be proven wrong with actions, and not with frantic rants and half-illiterate rhetoric.

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#198

tom
did anybody was asking for your opinion????? You looked into the mirror and described what you saw. Put up the $$$$$ and than be the judge. Yap, yap is cheap. tell us some of your achievements. Mine are posted all over... and they speak for them-self.
Psychopath is standard in your degenerated family tree, that goes back for centuries and will go on as the DNA will change slowly, with you never changed from the time of your family riding camels. you trying to say something, but nobody is hearing you... So just get lost

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#199

TIM,

by reading the postings and you stating that your handcuffs double lock is very hard to open...
You are the lucky one as they were handcuffs experimental, that were made and the one you have maybe one of the
high security experimental that was mixed up and was shipped out by mistake. If is so than you probably have one
of it's kind. CONGRATULATION!!!!! Keep it save as to the value.

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#200

Michael,

let someone put up some $$$$$ and I will make it sure you will have the chance. Also set the rules as what time frame , tools, etc. I am not afraid to take the challenge and taking a beating.

Hulk Hogan and his wife Linda came many times to my factory and was asking how to open the Goncz Handcuffs??? I told him is difficult....

So hi picked a S&W and they removed the metal chain link and replaced it with a lead chain and with big hoopla on the stage he broke the chain and the crowd went "Bannana".....

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#201

TARA, RA......

Bicentennial posting!!! Is this is a record on this forum??????

Anyhow I am still here!!!!

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#202

Hey !!!

I will donate One Pair of handcuffs for auction and the proceedings go to the orphans of the veterans!!!!

So will be time for gross and others to put up and show who they are ... or we will see the true color of their eyes.... and the dark soul!!!!

The offer is for the standard Nickel or Black!!!!!

I hope the auction will bring in couple of grand so that some kids will have something to enjoy, that hes / her father/ can not give them.

God Bless them!!!!

The Truth 22 Jan 2012

#203

Hey Goncz,
You're an ASSHOLE!!!!

George Bernard Shaw 22 Jan 2012

#204

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

Anonymous 22 Jan 2012

#205

George Bernard Shaw in his own words

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93eir00rOho

Chufu 22 Jan 2012

#206

My Solution to the Goncz Handcuffs!

Well I have thought this over. Everyone I have ever met that pulled this kind of a challenge was a con man. I have cuffs you cant pick or escape from. I challenge you to escape or pick and then the Block comes up. You need ten or twenty grand to be accepted for the challenge.
That is used all the time by escape artist to back out of a challenge after they made it. Serious or fair people just let you test your picking skills without the money angle.
This is not my challenge nor will it be but if it was and because Mr. Goncz is running a sham I would declare myself the winner by default. I would take a picture of the cuffs with all the info and write a manuscript on how to escape from the cuffs for the craft and sell it.
My title would be Victory by Default.
That would be for wasting my time and putting out a challenge that Mr. Goncz has no intention of keeping. I would also get the press in on it so Mr. Goncz can explain things to them and also Michael or Patrick depending on their willingness to explain why this is an unfair test to the press and demand a fair test. Challenge Mr. Goncz to a fair in the press and after use your press to your benefit even he fails to step up.
Some reporter would find this interesting as many of us already have.
Norm Bigelow

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#207

To The truth...

You chicken!!!!! Hiding behind the screen???? chicken!!!! tell it to my face and than you will find all your teeth in your Asshole..

John Goncz 22 Jan 2012

#208

Norman,
partially i agree with your posting, but that you stating is a scam, you are misinformed. The challenge is to open it without a key. The money will be deposited into an Escrow account, that nobody can touch it. The rules are established ; tool and time and than the challenger can show or prove that he did it at the presence of a SGS (Society General Services) Agent to certify it and than the winner takes it. Simple / clear. I am confident in my product, so is the challenger... Is there is any question????

amazing010 22 Jan 2012

#209

Goncz, it is obvious that you have no intention of answering the challenge that you made. I do not believe the cuffs exist and further more, I believe you are full of shit clear up to your eyeballs. IF this cuff ever gets made and sold on the open market (from a reputable seller who will not steal my money) , I will be the first one in line to get a pair. At that point, I will get my little video camera out and show the world how I made your "high security cuff" my bitch! I have never revealed picking techniques on Youtube before but I will make an exception in this case.

You are a coward with not so much as a single hair on your ass. If not, then prove me wrong......come to Indy, I will be there with bells on big boy!!!! Talk is cheap, lock picks are cheaper!!!

Oh yeah, by the way, you are better off auctioning off a box of pure Wyoming air instead of a pair of your fictitious handcuffs because the package that the winner will get will contain the same thing......IF you send anything at all! God knows you have a reputation for not sending what people have paid for!!!!

Mike D~C/

Chufu 22 Jan 2012

#210

Mr. Goncz, yes sir I have a question. Why the money involved? Lock makers as Michael says don't do that.
If your cuff stands the test you will have a publicty piece for the cuffs by Holding a professional escape artist and locksmith.
I don't think you have faith in the cuff I think you have faith the twenty five grand will make sure your cuff won't be tested.
Now it will be tested by someone and the results will be published and you won't even be involved because your not playing fair. Mr. Goncz every escape artist with any cuff challenge experience knows that you have no intention of letting them be tested.
I am already writing to my mail list about this. I am not misinformed I know how this works. Guys like you pull this stuff all the time in the world of escapes.
You may not want to be careful waht you say but If I were you I would check gamming laws. If you say you and a challenger put up money and winner takes all that'a bet. You are on line. Are you breaking any federal or state laws? Do you know? I don't. I have no idea.
All that is going to happen in the world of escapes is you will loose by default and we will all know it.
You are hiding behind money and I don't believe you can deliver. Norm

Tom Gross 23 Jan 2012

#211

I'm switching over to the other Goncz thread. It takes too long to scroll down through all these messages. See my posting there. I have just listed some Goncz handcuffs on eBay.

Anonymous3x 23 Jan 2012

#212

On your keyboard, just press the End key and you go straight to the bottom of the post.

Fred G Sanford 23 Jan 2012

#213

Amazing will pick that cuff faster then Aunt Ester can pick her teeth.

edgeplayusa 23 Jan 2012

#214

Tough guy. Tough on the Internet.

John Goncz 24 Jan 2012

#215

To:

Gross aka Joe tanner, (I am more or less sure that we are dealing with the same person.)

I was seeing that your IQ was not high, but to be stupid,??? You just proved it, by posting on the E-bay with the derogatory text...
My agent contacted the E-bay and put them on Notice that they will be liable for the posting. I also contacted my Attorney to prepare and file a Federal Lawsuit in Los Angeles Federal District Court, where we will ask for damages, punitive damages and shot your site down.

I will ask for damages that will include your last pennies. I can tell you a Federal Law suit is not cheap, and you will learn it the hard way.

So I will see you in the Federal Court and the notice will be "Ex-Parte" 24 hours.

John Goncz

Tom Gross 24 Jan 2012

#216

Oh my God! How could this get better? He's going to sue Tanner! I'm laughing so hard I can barely type.

If you could afford a lawyer, Goncz, why did you have the movie memorabilia guy contact me?

Here is the message I received;

(begin quote)

Hello Seller,

John Goncz is a client of ours and he requested that you please edit the listing description to omit the first paragraph's information. Specifically about his inventions and the "Edison of Gypsies" part. He does not have a problem with you selling the handcuffs, and they are very high quality, but if you could remove the reference about "Edison of Gypsies" to reflect an accurate depiction of John Goncz.

Feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

Thank You

- cinemastuff818

(end quote)

Very good, Goncz. You've got a lawsuit to file? File it, you whiney little sissy! Take your best shot. Sue Joe Tanner.

John Goncz 24 Jan 2012

#217

You Bastard, You will be on the List Guaranteed!!!!

houdinisghost 24 Jan 2012

#218

de minimis non curat lex

Fred G Sanford 24 Jan 2012

#219

Make it a class action lawsuit and add my name to the list.
Goncz could get counter sued for even "threatening" to sue. Id say defamation of everyones character in this place too. Not to mention cruelty to animals!!! That poor goat John rides doesnt even get to wear a condom.

. 24 Jan 2012

#220

Tom,

To the winner of your Ebay cuffs, you should include a print copy of this thread, ya know - for future provenance...

Might I smell a contender for 2012 cuff of the year?

Fred G Sanford. 24 Jan 2012

#221

Even Aunt Ester says...
"Only a jive turkey starts arguments and then threatens to sue people".

Vince 24 Jan 2012

#222

I could'nt help myself:

"There was a young law student named Rex,
who had very small organs of sex,
when charged with exposure,
he said with composure:
De minimis non curat lex!"

John Goncz 24 Jan 2012

#223

Anyone see a goat? I left it parked outside.

Fred G Sanford. 24 Jan 2012

#224

Ill ask Julio if he seen anything.

Lyle 24 Jan 2012

#225

Perhaps sense will one day prevail, with a little bit of humour.

For those not versed in Latin; well

As a lawyer, I have an old Peanuts comic strip framed on my desk, cut out of the newspaper. It is now so old and fragile, I don't want to take it out of the frame to scan it.

Snoopy is dressed as a lawyer, with his bowler hat and briefcase. Charlie Brown sees him and recites the Latin phrase, de minimus non curat lex. Snoopy looks at Charlie Brown in confusion, not understanding the phrase. Charlie, in the next panel, instructs Snoopy that the phrase translates into English as: The law disregards trifles.

Taking that into consideration, Snoopy responds in the last cartoon panel: That's a good thing. My law practice is as trifling as they come.

So, for all the illusionists out there:

aliud est celare; aliud tacere

Lyle

Tom Gross 24 Jan 2012

#226

Good point, Fred. Goncz can dish it out but evidently the sissy can't take it.

I just had a wonderful fantasy. Let's say that Goncz were able to bamboozle some inexperienced and starving lawyer to take his case. First, they would sue the wrong person. (Just kidding, Goncz! You're right. Joe Tanner is the person to sue.) But, once they got that sorted out, the lawyer would ultimately be made aware of the long thread, and realize that Goncz was going to be cross-examined, under oath, about everything he wrote; all the vile and pornographic insults, all the insane rants and violent hysterical threats, all the references to perversions such as golden showers, etc. Great jury appeal, huh? That poor lawyer wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind.

Plus, after reading about all the people to whom Goncz owes money, it would suddenly dawn on the lawyer that he was never going to get paid!

Fred G Sanford. 24 Jan 2012

#227

LOL @ The lawyer probably wont get paid.
Goncz isnt getting paid either!!!!!!

NO ONE is paying $200 for his handcuffs on ebay.
No one is gonna buy those manuscripts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing is gonna pick that cuff and take his $50,000

Rare handcuffs sell in 2 to 3 hours on ebay, NOT several months!!!! Did it ever dawn on Goncz that coming here and being rude to collectors and calling them names was a bad way to do business?

I dont know whether this thread makes me smile or disappoints me.
Its kinda like meeting someone famous and you find out what a tool they really are.
A professional person never acts a fool. Even on ebay you have to treat people with respect when they are wrong and out of line. Gonczo may be a great inventor.... But at times, he is a tool and at all times he is a terrible business man.

I hope he learns something from all this. It isnt too late to turn things around. Square away with people you owe money too and start having respect for people. Just cause you have a degree doesnt make you a stronger or better person. I know homeless people that would whoop your ass and make you their play toy. People might just have respect for you if you show them respect and you will see how much better everything can be. Alright.. im outta here.
I got a nice cold India pale ale waiting for me.

PEACE.

Forest Gump 24 Jan 2012

#228

Mama always said, stupid is as stupid does.

Bubba and Skillet 24 Jan 2012

#229

Pale ale and ripple = Pipple

joe tanner 24 Jan 2012

#230

GONCZ you whinney cry baby.... i do not play games... when i post here - i use my name... i had hoped that this tread would have ended long ago, but i guess YOU like to see your name in print.... joe

The Genius aka John "Gypsy" Goncz 24 Jan 2012

#231

My name is John "Gypsy" Goncz and I would like to clarify a few things for the restraint community and the world in general. I believe that I am a gypsy genius, this thought is the product of a deeply disturbed and dysfunctional mind the fact that I have sand in my man-gina further aggravates my normal obnoxious behavior . so when you combine my issues and add in ignorance, a lack of intelligence, lack of civility, foul nature and top it off with the knowledge that I am a product of a long line of inbreeding.

I hope that intelligent, civilized and evolved human beings unlike myself will somehow tolerate my lack of civility, education, language and foul nature. That damn inbreeding screws me daily. I will be starting my own forum to showcase my childlike behavior and my lack of professionalism as a business owner, it will also feature a bonus video of me drowning in my own excrement with my mouth wide open still cursing the world.

I take great pride in displaying myself as a raving psychologically immature lunatic that is in great need of attention good, bad or otherwise.

I owe the universe an apology for simply wasting oxygen.

After viewing my childhood photos below, you may have a better understanding of my disturbing and bizarre behavior.

PS If you ever send me money or have ever sent me money .. you should know that I will never send you anything ... other than a bitch-boy cursing and I will never return your money.

PSS - Please refer to me by my given name "Gypsy" from now on.

John Goncz 26 Jan 2012

#232

Well, well,,,,, I did my home work and searched on gross. The result is that this poor bastard is dealing with rabbinical items that is from Russia, (most likely smuggled as the Russian gov. dos not gives licenses to export such items.) and some other junks penny items.

So for that reason this "Litle Untermensch" attacked me as soon as I stated on the forum, that I was Christian and Catholic, so this "Sprossling" could not stomach it that, and kept barking with the other "Alfa Dingo" and MFSOB that was swearing on the Bible, to whom the Bible means nothing... with the inferior "Untermensch complex" keep barking like a dog with rabbies.

This Low Lifes keep attacking me because of my Faith, therefore that gross (eine kleine Arschloch", who is the miss creation of the Nature: mentally and physically as the reincarnated Judasch, that sold Jesus Chris for 18 Schackels and was a happy camper when Jesus was crucified. This is as low somebody can get. This Bastrads hates every body including himself from the morning on as he sees himself in mirror, therefore he attacks anything that is Christian. Hes idols are Freud (who was such a degenerate, that was ficking hes own daughters and Einstein, who was ficking his first Cousin Elsie. All the facts shows, that the above three 'bumms' are a pest in the society, that we just have to ignore them.

As to the handcuffs on e-bay I would suggest do not bid on it and let the bastard eat the loss as I am convinced, that he paid more than $30.- for it.

Anonymous 27 Jan 2012

#233

Well we were unable to complete the documentary on john goncz but this is what we were able to get. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtr_RvR3sY

Joshua 27 Jan 2012

#234

Oooh do me next John. I can't stand you, think you're a joke, could care less about the crap that you call un-pickable cuffs and an added bonus I like Joe Tanner.

Tom Gross 27 Jan 2012

#235

Joe, hi! Please don't close down this thread. I was all in favor of that, hoping for it in fact, until Goncz' last message. Now I want this thread to stand as a permanent monument to the insanity of that anti-Semitic vermin. In fact, I might care to call the attention of my Senators to this thread. Between them and the Anti-Defamation League, I think Goncz might have some difficulty ever selling his Gypsy Laser to the U. S. Military.

Now for Goncz. I had been taking my own advice, and letting sleeping Gonczes lie. I wasn't even going to come back and point out that 24 hours had long since come and gone. And I still have not been served with an ex parte order. (I doubt that Goncz even knows the meaning of "ex parte".) And my auction is still up. What's wrong with that lawyer of his? Is he incompetent? Lazy? Maybe he just hasn't been paid. Perhaps Goncz should sue his own lawyer, and threaten to take his last pennies.

Goncz shouldn't worry about my taking a loss on the auction for his handcuffs. I don't need the money. I'm too well-connected with the Freemasons, the Illuminati, and the New World Order to have to worry about that.

Forrest Gump 27 Jan 2012

#236

Mama always said that there will be ASSHOLES.

edgeplayusa 27 Jan 2012

#237

I've been trying to stay out of this, but that last antisemitic ranting by this Goncz entity (I won't call it a man) is just too much. I also urge this thread be kept up as testimony to this scumbag's antisemitism.

Gonczie, you claim to be a Catholic. You are a disgrace to everything The Catholic Church, and Christianity stand for. Things like you almost make me ashamed to call myself a Christian.

Crawl back under your rock, vermin.

John Goncz 27 Jan 2012

#238

It looks like this little nobody will not quit. Now he is calling me anti-semite. If that little bastard would known, that my family harbored many grosses, Kleins and Schwarzes during WWII risking their lives to save them, by helping them through Hungary and Croatia to the Adriatic ports and than to Palestine, would have shot his mouth and not to attack me... Probably hi should say thank me that he is alive!!!!

You see this litle "Drecksau" uses the anti-semita label and tries to label anybody, that disagree with him. I can state, that I am not anti-semite and just for the record my relative is the Honorary Chairman of a Large Jewish Organisation. We did more for jews, than this bastards will do in 1,000 years.

A jew has Vuerde und Ehre and that is a Mensch, but this "Drecksau ist nur eine kleine "schmack".

I have many friend and we telling each other "Mozel tow"...

As to his claim to be a Freemason???? ha, ha, the only statement is missing that he is a 32 degree Schreiner... what a ficking "Hochstapler",,, they sellect intelligent educated once and not Low Life.

By this kind of labeling he keeps the antisemitism grow and flourish.

As to his Luminaries etc, sheet... I am the head of the Templar's!!!

Anonymous 27 Jan 2012

#239

""Crawl back under your rock, vermin.'' Oh so Christian!!!! I would be ashamed of myself and the faith that taught me this.

Tom Gross 27 Jan 2012

#240

Hey, Goncz! Whatever happened to

"notice will be 'Ex-Parte' 24 hours"?

Was that as accurate and truthful as everything else you have said?

John Goncz 28 Jan 2012

#241

I am hearing something, but the only thing I am seeing is a "Little Schmack"

John Goncz 28 Jan 2012

#242

anony...............

You are real????? Or schmack II.

Fred G Sanford. 28 Jan 2012

#243

Head of the Templars...

yep.
The Templars personal toilet.

Calvin "Cordozar" Broadus Jr 28 Jan 2012

#244

Yo Fred G,

Whattup homie? yah man, you laid the smackdown on that Goncz dude yo, you got mad street cred witchur ol red pickup truck, in my eyes yo the "G" in Fred G stands for GANGSTA.

I'm out yo - peace,
Calvin Broadus

Tom Gross 28 Jan 2012

#245

The pathological liar and sociopath Goncz reinvents himself again. From Heinrich Himmler to Oskar Schindler in 24 hours.

I didn't realize that there were Hungarian Jews who had German names like Gross, Klein or Schwartz. How did you smuggle them to safety? And while you were saving them, did you call them "Untermensch", as you did me? You and I know what that means, don't we? That was the Nazi epithet for Jews, as I am sure you are well aware. Where did you learn that word? And how many Gypsies did you save?

Forrest Gump 28 Jan 2012

#246

Momma always said there would be ASSHOLES, LIARS and THIEVES out there in the world we live in. Momma was right....