The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Freeing rusted parts

15 visible archived posts · 15 preserved total · topic ID 4856

Dorson 13 Jun 2012

I am on a machinist group and know many of you come across this problem of rusted bolts, nuts, etc.

Some of you might appreciate this. Machinist's Workshop magazine
tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below,
as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a
"scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ......... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix.......53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than
any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local
machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally
good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as
"Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

LK 13 Jun 2012

does the acetone affect the patina ???

LK D~D

Nils 13 Jun 2012

Thank you, this may come handy sometime.

Nils

Ian McColl 13 Jun 2012

I have always got a kick out of how many times someone comes here to ask what product does this better than that, be it, rust , cleaning, polishing etc.
I have always used my own mix of approx, 50% oil and 50% petrol plus time, more time you soak, better the job
(are you listening JB!!!! TIME! )
Commercial products will always try to talk up their own stuff, just like house hold cleaning products. Baking soda and vinegar are best but no-one makes money. Honey is also best for light wounds but no-one can market it as medical. Gladiators swore by it.
Ian

grenchat 13 Jun 2012

Quite true, Ian!

Time is the crucial element regardless of which chemical composition one employs to dissolve rust. I've restored the functionality on many an antique specimen merely by allowing them to soak for extended periods. They didn't become frozen overnight, and one shouldn't necessarily expect to remedy the situation in a day's time.

The ancients knew the value of honey, nectar and tobacco as an antibacterial.

Regards,
Jason

Dorson 14 Jun 2012

I just got in the mail some Cobb leg irons that were rusted shut and couldn't work them at all, couldn't even turn the key in the slot. So I decided to give this ATF/Acetone a shot. In about an hour I had the lock working where I could open them and close them with no trouble. Now there is a small screw that I am waiting for it to soak into the threads and get it out so I can completely disassemble the lock to restore it. I had all this ATF/rust stuff on my hands and went to use gojo to clean my hands expecting them to show some staining like when I do oil changes. It all washed off clean! Then I thought back to the mid 70's when I worked in a gas station/garage and the owner would poured a couple of quarts of ATF into the parts cleaner that contained varsol. I asked him why he did that, he said to buffer the solution so it wasn't so harsh on the skin.

Now one of the guys says his bio-diesel that me makes will do the same thing and waiting to get some to see if his claim holds true and how it compares.

-Dorson

grenchat 14 Jun 2012

I did likewise with my Bean Cobb handcuffs. By external appearance they appeared to an exceptional rust-free example when I bought them, but after completely removing and disassembling the locks, I soaked the components in kerosene for about two days. This removed rust particles that were hidden in the lock cases and tightly sandwiched in the lock workings.

When the parts had completely dried out, I lubricated them with a custom blended synthetic clock oil by way of a syringe. This is a pricey mixture designed to provide maximum lubrication without gumming up the movements on antique mechanical clocks, obtained through a professional Swiss clock restorer.

This truly made a world of difference in my Cobbs in terms of functionality. With the locks completely clean and internal friction having been reduced to a bare minimum, the cuffs actually function as if the lock springs were replaced.

Go for it!

Jason

Ian McColl 14 Jun 2012

when removing the Cobb set screw for the lock, tighten it before trying to unscrewing it.

edgeplayusa 14 Jun 2012

Thanks, that's a keeper.

Be aware of the issues of explosive and toxic fumes.

SP-Frank 14 Jun 2012

#10

" when removing the Cobb set screw for the lock, tighten it before trying to unscrewing it "

I should have been given this counsel a few months ago when I bought an old set of rusted Bean Cobb leg irons.

I oiled them and removed all the rust I could, but one of the lock screws sheared when I was attempting to remove it. I need to drill the shank and perhaps rethread the lock ¡¡¡

I wonder if someone knows the thread data and if spares of these screws can be found.

Next time I will try soaking with the mixture of Diesel-oil before working on any restraint ¡¡¡

Franklin 15 Jun 2012

#11

There is never a single solution when it comes to rusty, corroded, threaded things. However, the one thing that almost always never works is brute force, as I'm sure all will agree.

That being said, if tightening the screw doesn't make it "crack" (and you can feel that happen), then firmly position the screwdriver into the slot, and then holding it like a chisel, sharply whack the handle end of the screwdriver with a hammer, then try to tighten again to bust it loose.

Rust particles are very contrary, obstinate creatures. To defeat them, you have to be sneaky, and patient. First, always lure them into complacency with a penetrating solution of some sort. It breaks down their resolve to be stubborn, but does not defeat it entirely. Then, be counter-intuitive. Even though in a bit of a stupor from the penetrating oil, they still expect to be loosened and are anticipating that, so you surprise them by tightening. If that doesn't catch them off-guard, then give 'em a whack on the head.

If they still resist, then a more drastic measure may be warranted, but only if exercised with caution: heat. Be very, very careful here. Open flame should be avoided if plating or patina, and particularly the temper of internal springs, is to be preserved. When your spouse is not around, consign that confounded object to the kitchen oven for an hour or so, at about pot roast cooking temperature, followed by a whack and tighten.

If the rust particles remain adamant and fail to yield, do not capitulate. Toss the dammed things in a coffee can full of kerosene, consign them to a dark and lonely nook in the garage, and when you have your next garage sale, unload them on someone else for a bargain price without any surcharge fee for the challenge they will be acquiring.

Dorson:
Thanks for the mention of Varsol. I had forgotten about that stuff. My father was a distributor for Mobil Oil (who I was led to believe concocted the stuff) and we used it to clean just about everything other than the kitchen dishes. In Googling the name, it seems rather obscure now. But it was a great product. As a kid, one of my chores when Daddy got a 55-gallon drum of it was to decant it into 5-gallon and 1-gallon cans for easy use. And you never threw the stuff away. After washing off whatever with it, you just let the stuff sit overnight and all the solid junk settled to the bottom. You then gently poured off the top liquid, clear as a bell, and used it all over again.

Varsol's only drawbacks were that it didn't stink or catch on fire as easily as kerosene. But, overall, it was more versatile than coal oil.

Franklin

grenchat 15 Jun 2012

#12

Commercial ultrasonic cleaning tanks are priced out of reach for many of us, but how 'bout this homemade ultrasound bathtub for under 35 bucks?

Dorson 15 Jun 2012

#13

Gawd Franklin, you bring back memories, I remember how the dirt settled to the bottom also and used it to clean paint brushes and many other things. My father was very creative, he used to have a jar of Varsol with charcoal briquets, when he would light the grill, he would put 3 of the briquets into a coffee can with the bottom removed and replaced with some sort of mesh, and pile dry briquets on top and lite it. He should have patented the idea, such is life...

If I am wrong, please correct me here. The closest I have come to the thread dimensions on the Cobbs is #3-48. The Cobbs screw seems to be a tad smaller in diameter than #3 and don't know if they are using some metric that is close in that dimension or some clock maker threads.

Very clever idea for cleaning large stuff I must admit, it does the agitation which is fine for most things. I use ultrasonics for cleaning small clocks, locks, etc. using a special cleaner from L&R that is ammoniated, and there is non ammoniated too. For other things, one can just add dish washing detergent for cleaning. I saw in the video they were using Greased Lightening degreaser. I used the heavy duty cleaner they make and they warn you not to use it on acrylic paint and such as it will dissolve it like lightening from my experience.

Dorson 15 Jun 2012

#14

It got my curiosity as I haven't seen Varsol in some time. Franklin was correct in that it was a product of ExxonMobil and is trademarked name. Essentially it is a high grade paint thinner and the most likely place to find it is in paint stores. It is sold under different names now and grades. Another tradename is Irsol. Mineral spirits is very close to Varsol more than likely I have been using a version of it with Ammonia in it for cleaning small clocks and other precision parts(L&R watch cleaning).

http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Chem- ... heets.aspx

http://www.recochem.com/en/products/sol ... em/varsol/

LK 17 Jun 2012

#15

be very careful when u drill the screw because the hole in the lock it's self (where the screw goes) through doesn't bottom out, it goes right into the lock! if u look at the thickness of the housing where the screw is down to where the lock is, the deepth of the hole in the lock is 1/2 that or less. As for as screws go ,try a gunsmith,a lot of sights appear to be of that size,and a lot of rifles come ready for scope mmounts with screws filling the blank threaded holes until u want to mount a scope!

LK D~D