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Ancient collar on ebay

12 visible archived posts · 12 preserved total · topic ID 4866

Nils 19 Jun 2012

I was just wondering who the winner was on this auction:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/290721390117?ssP ... 1435.l2649

I'd be interested to know how the buyer (and others) rates the collar, i.e. what period.

A fascinating piece.

Have a great week,

Nils

Steve Santini 19 Jun 2012

This so called torture collar is a modern made fake.

While I belive the cross cut sleeve is original I think the collar itself was made up to go with the sleeve.

I have many Germany, Austrian, and Swiss cross cut, or "cup" irons in my collection and on all of them the restraint was made the same band width as the sleeve.

On this one someone simply took some square bar stock and pounded the ends flat and wide enough to fit the sleeve.

I have never seen an ancient cup restraint made this way. It is all wrong.

S.S.

Ian McColl 20 Jun 2012

It all looks suss to me.

Ian

Nils 20 Jun 2012

I'm not so sure. The seller has sold some interesting and genuine artifacts in the past. I'd consider the spikes more something of a "frightening deocoration", they are much too short to provide serious discomfort. It's clear that these were not made by a factory by the dozens.

Ian, sorry, I didn't get your comment. Did you mean it seems fake?

Here are some photos of the item:

Steve Santini 20 Jun 2012

Of this has also offered some profound fakes in the past.

Once again, this is a fake.

Nils, I have the feeling you are enquiring about this becuase you bought it. Is this true?

BTW, In medieval times the sorts of smiths who made such things were fully capable of make a perfect circle with both sides being mirrors of each other.

Yet, we do not see that on this.

It is a replica and a bad one at that.

A purely "fantasy" item.

S.S.

Nils 20 Jun 2012

As a matter of fact, I did not get it. I would have liked to, though, but I was outbid. I thought you were the one who got it, Steve.

I would not post here under a false pretext either.

Well, no brass tag at least.

Ian McColl 20 Jun 2012

Hi Nils, suss is short for suspicious. I am very confident it is a fanasty items, it is not fake unless sold as such.

A blacksmith would have made at least a three piece knuckled hinge and not cut only half the material off each side and over lapped them. The bend at the closing side of the collar to the flatten sections would have been an acute shape 90 degree bend and not a radius. The other features are just cosmetic, probably done with a file.
Even the cup is laminated pieces. All the blacksmithed one I have seen have be shaped bent and curved to suit.
A nice piece but not an authentic old piece.

Vladimir 11 Dec 2012

Hello all.If it's fake, it's very good quality fake.Made by forging method.And made of metal, which is produced at least 150 years ago.On the photo we can see that iron of rivet splitted on layers.With regards, Vladimir.

anon456 13 Dec 2012

Let's see here...
1. they are made of steel not wrought iron of the 1600's
2. made from standard bar stock from any metal supplier today
3. originals were not crude as the blacksmiths of that period were craftsman and would not produce something this poorly
4. there rivets would not have split like this one

Conclusion, modern fakes

anon 456 .2 13 Dec 2012

#10

Let's see here... becasue you don't know for sure but guess!!!!
1. they are made of steel not wrought iron of the 1600's ,
where does it say that??
2. made from standard bar stock from any metal supplier today,
bar has always be available
3. originals were not crude as the blacksmiths of that period were craftsman and would not produce something this poorly.
might have on a Friday
4. there rivets would not have split like this one
they have and do

Conclusion, 456 has not cred.

anon456 14 Dec 2012

#11

TO: anon 456 .2

Are you willing to bet your ass that you are correct? 100% correct?
I am willing to do it because I know I am right.
Now shut your mouth!

Anonymous 14 Dec 2012

#12

yep