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"Rare" Bilbo?

27 visible archived posts · 27 preserved total · topic ID 4984
Original topic ↗Recovered images
Paul 04 Sep 2012
#1

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Bruce Thomson 05 Sep 2012
#2
After looking at the previous auction photo of the group my thoughts are if it is with two more modern designs (modern compared to the bilboes) than maybe a repro?
LK 05 Sep 2012
#3

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
WHEN YOU TYPE BEMONT PARISH INTO WIKIPEDIA

THIS COMES UP FIRST WILL SAY DOES NOT EXIST THEN BELOW THAT:

Saignelégier
main parish of the Franches-Montagnes region, moved to Saignelégier. ... The municipalities of Le Bémont , Les Bois , Les Breuleux , La Chaux- ...

however if you go there have not seen the same thing on that page!
but it's in Switzerland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saignel%C3%A9gier

LK D~D
LK 05 Sep 2012
#4

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
WELL FOUND LE BEMONT MENTION UNDER FIRST PHOTO ON ABOVE URL

LK D~D
pepe le anon 05 Sep 2012
#5

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Paul, great post!
Anonymous 05 Sep 2012
#6

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
LK, would they use the word "Parish" in mainland Europe??
Paul
LK 05 Sep 2012
#7

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
PAUL, i wouldn't know,never been there,just passing along info i found,not judging it
personally i wouldn't pay that much if it said H.HOUDINI

LK D~D

Mark Lyons 05 Sep 2012
#8

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Paul,
Very good detective work!
I don't know how you found the auction site, but it is obvious they seller is a big liar.
There goes his "found these in an attic 15 years ago" story.
The piece looks good to me, but his price is way out of line.
I think he will have these for a while unless he lowers his price.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I won't buy from a big fat liar, so I have no interest in it.
Thanks for the tip off

mark
O--O
Tom Gross 05 Sep 2012
#9

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Look at the perfectly round holes in the shackles. Look at the perfectly symmetrical knob at one end of the rod, without the trace of a hammer mark. Look at the rectangular hole at the other end, with the crisp interior surfaces and corners. Did a blacksmith in 1759 make this?

Similarly, the lock could not possibly be that old. In 1759 shackles were still being riveted on. And, apart from that, it is so flimsy as to be ridiculous on a shackle of this sort.

Consider the nature of this item. It is nothing more than a tool, and one made for rough use. Not unlike a hammer. How many hammers, made in 1759, have the place and date of manufacture delicately inscribed on them?
Steve Santini 06 Sep 2012
#10

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Regarding padlocks vs. rivets as a means of securing restraints... while certainly rivets were used to secure some forms of shackles right into the 19th century, shackles, manacles, and fetters dating as far back as the 16th century often locked with padlocks and many even boasted self contained locking mechanisms.

While I agree that these bilboes on offer are very likely reproductions not all authentic period bilboes were secured with bent over bits of iron, rivets, or hammered shut rings. Examples exist that were in fact secured with padlocks.

Steve Santini
Anonymous 06 Sep 2012
#11

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...

Iron Bilboes of the Henrietta Marie

Corey Malcom
Director of Archaeology
Mel Fisher Maritime Heritage Society

Of all the artifacts recovered from the wreck site of the Henrietta Marie, none serve as stronger icons for her involvement in the slave trade than the crude iron restraints known as bilboes. They succinctly express the grim nature of a voyage in which a group of people was forcibly held, and shipped as a cargo. Bilboes gave the slavers a physical and psychological advantage, allowing them to control the Africans from the time they were put aboard the ships until they could be safely delivered to the markets of the Americas. By inhibiting the likelihood of resistance and rebellion by the captives, they prevented physical injury to crew or cargo that might result from any such insurrection. A sufficient number of components-shackles, bolts and wedges- were found on the wreck that, when assembled, once formed just over eighty bilboes; enough to hold more than 160 people.

Throughout the history of the slave trade, items of restraint can be found to have been called by many names, including fetters, irons, manacles, hand bolts, gyves, shackles and handcuffs. Whatever the name, their purpose was singular; to limit or deny the free movement of a group of African men, women and children and make them available for sale.

Folklore holds it that bilboes came to England from Spain during the Armada campaign of 1588, when the invading Spanish supposedly carried them by the dozens in anticipation of taking English prisoners (Earle, 1896). The word bilbo is believed to be derived from the name of the northern Spanish port, Bilbao (ibid.). Bilboes, certainly were used in early colonial Spain, and have been recovered from two Spanish shipwrecks in the Americas; the Molasses Reef wreck, tentatively dated to ca. 1513, and thought to have been a slaver capturing Lucayan Indians (Keith, 1988), and the galleon Nuestra Señora de Atocha of 1622.

They were used both on land and sea to hold and punish those who committed offenses against society. In the earliest American colonies, bilboes served effectively as low-cost, self-contained "prisons". In Boston during the 1630s offenders would be "sett in the bilbowes", which had been imported from England, in the town square in full public view (Earle, op.cit.). An early treatise on sea service describes that among the duties of the boatswain, "... he is (in the nature of a Provost Marshal at land) to see all offenders punctually punished, either at the capstan, or by being put in the bilboes..." (Boteler, 1685).

Exactly when bilboes were put to use in the slave trade is unclear, but contemporary references from European sources provide the reasoning for their implementation. Restraining the Africans could effectively prevent rebellion and suicide, which always loomed as threats to the success of any slaving voyage. An uprising by slaves was not only perceived as a threat to a ships crew, but to any profit as well. If the Africans did manage to take up arms, the Europeans would have been compelled to protect themselves, and possibly injure or kill them. From the slavers perspective, this would be destroying cargo, which, obviously, ran counter to their purpose.

The owners of the Dispatch, writing in 1725, instructed their captain, William Barry,

"So soon as you begin to slave let your knetting be fixd breast high fore and aft and so keep em shackled and hand Bolted fearing their rising or leaping Overboard , to prevent which let always a Constant and Carfull watch be appointed to which must give the strictest Charge for the preservation of their own lives, so well as yours and on which the voyage depends..."

Other writers involved in the slave trade express similar reasons for shackling, but also, they describe the manner in which the Africans were held. Consistently, it is seen that it was usually the adult male captives who were joined by irons, in pairs. Captain Thomas Phillips of the Royal African Companys Hannibal, which sailed to Guinea in 1693-94, describes, "When our slaves are aboard we shackle the men two and two, while we lie in port, and in sight of their own country, for tis then they attempt to make their escape, and mutiny...(Dow, p.73)." Alexander Falconbridge, who served as a surgeon in the slave trade during the latter part of the 18th century, wrote, "The men negroes, on being brought board ship, are immediately fastened together, two by two, by hand-cuffs on their wrists and by irons rivetted on their legs. (1788, p.19)", but he goes on to describe how this situation could become problematic. "It often happens, that those who are placed at a great distance from the buckets [toilets], in endeavouring to get to them, tumble over their companions, in consequence of being shackled. These accidents, although unavoidable, are productive of continuous quarrels... (ibid., p.20)." Capt.William Snelgrave, a slaver with over thirty years experience, describes, from 1754, a somewhat more judicious use of restraint for the Africans, "When we purchase the Negroes, we couple the sturdy men together with irons; but we suffer the Women and Children to go freely about: And soon after we have saild from the coast we undo all the mens Irons. (Dow p.131)." Finally, James Barbot recorded in his narrative of the voyage of the English slaver Don Carlos, a scenario where the Africans mutinied, and probably felt that, for once, their bilboes were being put to the best use;

"... as having premeditated a revolt, and seeing all the ships company, at best weak and many quite sick, they had also broken off the shackles from several of their companions feet, which served them, as well as billets they had provided themselves with, and all other things they could lay hands on, which they imagind might be of use for this enterprize. Thus armd, they fell in crowds and parcels on our men..."

From the African perspective there are few accounts of the slave trade, but one, that of Olaudah Equiano, who was captured and put into slavery as a boy, describes the psychological terror induced by the sight of his countrymen in shackles and chains. After having been sold to English slavers in the mid-1700s, he entered their ship to await transport to the Americas;

" When I looked around the ship too, and saw a large furnace of copper boiling, and a multitude of black people of every description chained together, every one of their countenances expressing dejection and sorrow, I no longer doubted of my fate; and, quite overpowered with horror and anguish, I fell motionless on the deck and fainted. (Bontemps,1969 p.27)"

From even these few accounts, it can be seen that bilboes served as a way to ensure that African captives taken into the slave trade were more easily kept and transported during at least portions of the voyage to the Americas. By being able to restrain their unwilling merchandise, the slavers could ensure a safe and profitable delivery.

The basic design of the Henrietta Marie bilboes is one that went virtually unchanged for at least two centuries in western Europe and the American colonies. Two U-shaped shackles fit over the ankles or wrists of the slaves, too tight to slip hands or feet through. Loops at each terminus slid onto a bolt of iron round stock. The bolt had a larger diameter head forged onto one end, and a slot pierced into the other. The large head served as a stop to keep the loops from sliding over the end of the bolt. The same effect was achieved at the other end by hammering an iron wedge into the slot locking the shackles, and thus the prisoners, to the bolt. Eighty-one bolts and 165 shackles have been found at the site of the Henrietta Marie. Many of these were found as intact sets, but bolts with one shackle, and many individual components were also found. It is unclear how they were stored, but presumably it was as intact sets, and the wrecking process put the collection into its relative disarray.

There are telling differences which give clues to the intended victims who were once held by these restraints. Most significant is the size of the U-shaped shackles. Some are large, and presumed to have fit only the ankles of large men. Others may have been wrist shackles for large adults or ankle shackles for those who were smaller. Others, whose diminutive form is quite startling, suggest they were used to shackle the wrists of small adults or the ankles of juveniles. It seems the shackles could also be custom fit by compressing or expanding the "U". This appears to have been done to some of the recovered examples, with two shackles of the same size on the same bar having different widths.

Though the functional design of these bilboes is identical, there are slight stylistic differences, which suggest that more than one artisan worked to create this collection. Some bolts are short, meant for the shackles to fit tightly. Others are long enough to allow a gap of approximately 6 inches between shackles. Bolt lengths vary between 6 1/2 to 17 inches. Some of the barstock used in their construction is a heavy, 3/4 inch diameter, and in others a more slight 1/2 inch diameter is found. The design of the finished ends also varies; with some having rounded heads, others pointed. The shackles also have varying qualities; some are formed of barstock of 3/8 inch diameter, some of 1/2 inch. Some shackles have large, flaring loops, and some are formed with blended lines nearly the same width as the barstock from which they were made.

Two shackles from two different bilboes from the Henrietta Marie were seized with cord, presumably for a cushioning effect to prevent chafing of the captives skin. It is unknown if these were special sets, or if all the shackles were once similarly wrapped, with the cordage of the others long ago destroyed by the natural actions of the marine environment. Considering the similar nature of the deposition for the collection though, this seems unlikely. A more likely theory for having "cushioned" shackles reflects on the assumed recalcitrance of a few slaves. No contemporary reference indicates the Africans were held in irons for the duration of Middle Passage, and this makes sense. Bilboes would have surely caused considerable chafing if worn for prolonged periods, and increased the likelihood of infections and other health problems among the slaves. Anything negatively affecting the well being of the cargo like this impeded the ships ability to operate profitably, and would have been avoided. Inevitably, though, some of the Africans would have been "bad"; therefore, for the crews safety required prolonged restraint. Perhaps these were special shackles designed to hold unruly slaves for longer periods without affecting their salability.

It appears likely that one of the merchants who had consigned goods to the Henrietta Marie, ironmonger Anthony Tournay, was also the supplier of the bilboes. Tournay was a wholesaler of iron goods, and shipped 33 tons of iron trade bars on her last voyage. He had close business and social ties to Sir Ambrose Crowley, the most prominent ironware manufacturer of the time, and who contracted to provide various iron slave restraints to the Royal African Company (Tattersfield, 1994). It is not farfetched to see at least some of these bilboes as having been channeled by Tournay from Crowleys ironworks to the Henrietta Marie.

These bilboes represent the essential horror of the transatlantic slave trade. In 1700 people were forced to wear these very devices and suffer as much as any human can. As they sat in the equatorial swelter, bound to their neighbor aboard the Henrietta Marie, the Africans were probably unsure of what the future held for them, but the bilboes represented the beginning of a new life -- one where they were barely considered human, and would never again be free.
Anonymous 07 Sep 2012
#12

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo-JejTp7O4
Franklin 08 Sep 2012
#13

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Well, I'll chime in on this.

It seems the seller has a genuine bilboe, made out of wrought iron, from somewhere between 1600 to 1800.

The lock is an afterthought.

The inscription is curious.

Paul:

The designation of parish is not limited to Church of England things. It was, and still is, in Louisiana, the equivalent of a county. Giving the benefit of the doubt to this seller, and recognizing that folks 250 years ago were not all that keen on uniform spelling, but were more phonetic, Bemont could today be spelled as Belmont. Who knows? Hey, if you phonetically pronounce Beaumont, it ain't gonna come out sounding anything like we now pronounce it. Such is the horror and wonder of the English language.

Been a while since I've been in Cajun land, but I'd bet you that if you go down to Belmont, Louisiana, and asked an old time local the name of the place, it would come out sounding like beymondt, with the accent on the second syllable, and a little spitty thing on the end with a funny French whatever.

Tom:

Yes, indeed, this is a very well made item. To me, that is the very proof that it is perhaps authentic. Those old blacksmiths were craftsmen, and their skill is something now lost. The crappy stuff usually now seen, with rough edges and such, are the fakes. With that in mind:

Anon/Corey Malcolm:

You are indeed correct, that the bilboes salvaged from the Henrietta Marie are the only ones known, to date, that can be authenticated to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. If you compare the subject item, to those salvaged from the shipwreck, you will see nothing but similarities.

That being acknowledged, bilboes were not used exclusively in the slave trade. Bilboes were also used on land to punish persons for various offenses, publicly restraining them for a period of time and subjecting them to public ridicule, a common practice among Puritans in colonial America. The Massachusetts Bay Colony magistrates brought bilboes from England as a means of punishing refractory or sinning colonists, and they were soon in constant use. In the oldest court records of the colony appear the frequent sentences of offenders to be placed in the bilboes. The earliest entry was on the 7th of August, 1632: "Jams Woodward shall be sett in the bilbowes for being drunk at the Newe-towne." Newe-towne was the original name of Cambridge. Soon another colonist felt the bilboes for "selling peeces and powder and shott to the Indians. In Virginia, the provost-marshal had a fee of ten shillings for "laying by the heels."

In Boston, the magistrates recognized that iron was expensive and in short supply while wood was plentiful. So, in 1639 a set of wooden stocks was ordered and as soon as the job was done, the magistrates selected as their first customer Edward Palmer, who was "fyned £5 & censured to bee sett an houre in the stocks." Mr. Palmer, the carpenter who had built the stocks, was accused of extortion for charging his superiors £1 13s. 7d. for his labor and materials. Thereafter, though perhaps a hazard to an avaricious carpenter who constructed them, wooden stocks replaced iron bilboes as a means of punishment throughout colonial America. For example, in 1662, the Virginia Colony burgesses declared, "The court in every county shall cause to be set up near a Court House a Pillory, a pair of Stocks, a Whipping Post and a Ducking-Stool in such place as they think convenient, which not being set up within six month after the date of this act the said Court shall be fined 5,000 lbs. of tobacco.

Accordingly, presuming these are authentic, assuming they must be slave items is just too much of a jump for me.

One thing youve probably noticed is that a bilbo doesnt have a lock. Rather, an iron wedge is hammered into a slot in the end of the bolt to hold the device together. It is possible for a small padlock to be used instead of a wedge, but not typically since a padlock small enough to fit the hole in the bolt would be a rather delicate affair and easily broken open; also, a lock would have been quite expensive in comparison to the cost of a simple wedge. Lastly, you have the eternal problem with any lock in keeping track of the key.

Lastly, and it's always hell trying to judge by photographs, it does seem someone tried to clean these items up, and removed the almost black patina that should be on an old wrought iron item.

In conclusion, my best guess, and it's only a guess, but trying to be as fair as I can, I suspect these items were used as a punishment item, on land, in Louisiana, back in the mid 18th century. Recognizing their somewhat peculiar provenance, somebody rescued them from the scrap heap/recycling bin, and scratched a little bit of their history upon them.

Franklin
Ian McColl 08 Sep 2012
#14

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Thank you Franklin, a voice of reason.

Ian
Franklin 08 Sep 2012
#15

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
After a little more pondering, while I have no hesitation in assuming these are authentic. I rather suspect they are from England.

As for being found where they were? Well, a decade or so ago, I was the sole and winning bidder on a set of hand bilboes on eBay. The shipping cost from the UK to the US was more than the purchase price. As soon as I had them in hand, I knew I had the real deal.

I emailed the seller back. He had bought a cardboard box of stuff at a boot sale. He wanted the kettle he could see, and was happy with his purchase. After getting home, he found the bilboes in the bottom of the box.

Those also had an old, very old padlock instead of a wedge. Fortunately, nobody had tried to clean them up and the patina was perfect, as was the craftsmanship.

I wouldn't mind having these as a companion piece, but not at the listed price.

Anonymous 08 Sep 2012
#16

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Franklin,
I cannot find fault with any of your reasoning - mainly because it confirms what I think. (;

The item was part of a collection which included an American Bottleneck handcuff, so the collector may have got it from USA. Who knows.

I only offered my thoughts on UK Parishes, because that is my area of "expertise" - not US Parishes, and it is for sale in UK. With North America being made up of Colonies from various other countries the term Parish may relate to a British Colony in the US. The place may even no longer exist.

The other curiosity for me was the use of a standard letter "S" in the word Parish. Not a big deal really because it was interchangeable with the letter which looks like the "f hole" cut into either side of a violin.
Having spent countless hours reading English Parish Registers from the 1700s including those in Latin, I'm never surprised by spelling or letter forms.

The item is very well made, with hammer marks near the padlock, and made not to damage the wearer too much.
To me, the comfort of the construction shows some care for the fellow townfolk.

Because I don't think it from the UK, and the high price, I won't be bidding.
If you like it, good luck.
Paul
pepe le anon 08 Sep 2012
#17

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Is it possible that this Bilbo restraint was made to be an example of the blacksmiths talent? (both forging and engraving)



Another possibility could be that the Bilbo was made for a slave bounty hunter and carried the owners name like some cops mark their handcuffs.

A really nice item in my opinion.
Franklin 09 Sep 2012
#18

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Paul:

One thing that saddens me is that most people today, including a lot of antiques dealers, do not appreciate the skills that those old blacksmiths had, just as they also do not appreciate the material they worked with: wrought iron, which is vastly different from modern steel and cast iron.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron

Because true wrought iron has a grain, many of the techniques used by those blacksmiths resemble those that a carpenter used in woodworking, particularly in the forge welding of joints. Those techniques are impossible to achieve with modern steel because it lacks a grain and has no appreciable silicate (slag) content.

If you ask a teenager in a high school vocational wood shop class to make a three-legged milking stool without modern power tools, it will take him over half a day and will come out looking quite crude. Ask a skilled carpenter (if you can find one these days) to make one by hand, and it will take him about an hour and will come out much nicer. Why? The carpenter has the knowledge, the experience, the skill AND the tools; not just a saw and hammer, but planes, chisels, drills, scrapers, rasps, etc. as well.

Today, when you say "blacksmith" most people thing of some guy as big as an ox (and just as dumb) standing under an oak tree beating the hell out of a horseshoe, and his only tools were a forge, anvil, hammer and tongs. In truth, like the carpenter, the blacksmith had a vast array of tools, including chisels, drills, rasps, vises, swaging plates, riveters, mangles, etc. AND he knew how to use them.

Ask the teenage kid to smooth off the sharp edge on a piece of wood, and he'll take a rasp and spend ten minutes filing away on it, and the result will be rather ragged. Ask a skilled carpenter to do the same and he'll take a block plane, and after three or four quick swipes, he'll have a smooth edge in about ten seconds.

Smoothing down sharp edges was quite easy and fast for an old blacksmith to do. While the iron was hot, he just ran over it with a roller.

As for holes; well, as a rule of thumb, authentic wrought iron pieces have rectangular holes, not round ones. If you want a round hole, you have to drill it when the iron is cold; try to drill it hot and you'll ruin the temper of the drill bit. With hot iron, the skilled blacksmith could punch out a rectangular hole using a chisel faster than a round hole could be drilled.

If you have an old 19th century darby handcuff handy, look at how the clevis is attached to the bow. On the Froggatt I'm looking at right now, the rectangular clevis fits through a rectangular hole cut through the bow. When the clevis was hammered into place, it caused the bow to swell out a little bit on both edges, and I can see where the end of the clevis was then hammered out and flattened out on the inside of the bow. Yes, the hole in the clevis where the chain is attached is not rectangular, but it's not round either; it's oval. Presumably, after punching out a square hole, the smith then took a round punch, inserted it into the hole and wobbled it around to round off the square edges while the iron was still hot, resulting in an oval shape.

As you can undoubtedly detect, all this blacksmithing stuff is a "hot" topic for me. Please forgive me; it's a family thing. My great-great-whatever grandfather, a blacksmith, went to the Virginia Colony from England in the 1600's, and his trade was passed down, father to son, for generations. It died with my great-grandfather due to wrought iron no longer being produced and the advent of powered machinery as well as electric and gas welding. My maternal grandfather was a carpenter, and I don't think he ever used a power tool in his life. As a kid, I was fascinated by the vast array of tools he had and the ways he used them. It was like magic.

To me, whether the subject bilboe was used by an African slaver or a church deacon is of little consequence. What I admire in the piece is its construction. Those blacksmiths were artisans, and I think their utilitarian creations deserve as much recognition as any other piece of art.

Thanks for letting me rant.

Franklin
Steve Santini 10 Sep 2012
#19

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Well put indeed.

As a collector of 15th - 17th century torture instruments and very early restraints I have found it annoying that some people naturally assume because an item was fabricated 500 or so years ago it has to look crude as Hell.

Case in point: I have a 17th century set of Venitian thumb/finger screws in my collection that are currently on loan to The National Museum of Crime and Punishment in Washington, D.C. This set is a true masterpiece of the blacksmith's art. The edges are scalloped and decorative, the turn nut is a picture of beautiful scroll work, and the thread pitch was purposely made to allow for gradual and very controlled tightening so that the degrees of pain could be applied in very measured doses.

There are some, even some here, who would look at such a detailed and ornate instrument and immediately assume, as some here have done in the past, that it is not original because of the holes, the decorative edges, the thread pitch, etc.

And, they would be wrong. The same people who would boldly state this seem to have forgotten that during this time period master smiths were hand crafting incredible and ornate weapons of war complete with advanced metal folding and tempering techniques, cast ornate pommels, and heavilly hand etched blades.

Many people would also forgot or not realize that during this same time period smiths and clock makers turned out some incredible and intricate time pieces some of which still run today!

Complex gears, return mechanisms, and threaded rods and shafts were the stock in trade of the true master smiths. A mere pair of ornate torture screws was child's play by comparison.

All of the above said, it is not accurate at a glance to declare an old item made of hand smithed iron to be a fake just because it has crisp and sharp edges or a fine thread pitch.

Ancient master smiths were capable of producing all of these effects and many others as well.

While it is true some early hand smithed items DO look their age and are crude, this does not apply to all of them by a long shot. The material used in construction combined with the skill of the smith and the state of the art all played a part in how the finished item turned out.

Cheers, Steve Santini





Steve_Mollett 10 Sep 2012
#20

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
On the money, Steve.
The High Renaissance had some really well-crafted devices.
French instruments were literally works of art.
German instruments showed the same mechanical precision and attention to detail that is still the hallmark of German engineering today.
pepe le anon 11 Sep 2012
#21

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Is it possible that this Bilbo restraint was made to be an example of the blacksmiths talent? (both forging and engraving)



Another possibility could be that the Bilbo was made for a slave bounty hunter and carried the owners name like some cops mark their handcuffs.

A really nice item in my opinion.

Awesome table the Bilbo is setting on too.
Steve Santini 11 Sep 2012
#22

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
I thought I would mention that just because the locking hole of these and other bilboe style restraints in elongated and rectagular in shape it does not mean that all of these restraints were meant to be secured by a hammered in a wedge of flat iron.

Many European padlocks of the 18th and 17th century did not have round bar stock shackles and in fact many had shackles made of flat stock which would have fit perfectly through such a hole.

In my own collection I have a number of very old German and European triangle shaped padlocks and even screw key barrel type padlocks that have this type of flat stock shackle.

If such a bilboe were meant to be used by a constable instead of securing the hands or feet of a prisoner or slave being kept in a prison cell of transported on a ship a padlock would be the natural choice to secure the restraint.

After all, how practical would it be for a constable to carry a large hammer and a pocket full of iron wedges just in case he happened to need to use the restraints on a criminal?

Steve Santini



Frank Cole 12 Oct 2012
#23

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Hello. Can I just point out that, whilst the majority of slaves were black African, Britain also sent as slaves to the West Indies and the American Colonies, Scots after the 1728 rebellion and a lot of West of England prisoners after the Civil War. I have a massive set of bilboes dating from around 1600 with no provenance and also two sets of leg irons taken by Rev Robert Walsh from a slaver in 1841 when he was serving as a doctor on a British war ship.
Frank Cole 12 Oct 2012
#24

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Had an afterthought. Is it possible that the inscription was added later as a sort of lable on an old pair of bilboes in a collection?
LK 12 Oct 2012
#25

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Names change and history get's lost,my town was once only know as SHAWNEE TOWN,because Shawnee Indians lived here, the MISSISSIPPI RIVER, was not always called that,ect. there could have been a BEMONT PARISH SOMEWHERE!

LK D~D
Anonymous 13 Oct 2012
#26

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
Lk you from Shawnee Kansas?
LK 14 Oct 2012
#27

VERY RARE DATED HAND CUFFS SHAKELS 1759 BEMONT PARISH

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0964748390

Normally I would not comment on a live auction, but there are a number of things that concern me about this item and we don't want people possibly getting ripped off. Before you consider the hefty asking price consider this-

My index of UK parishes has no such parish. The closest thing is Beaumont Leys in Leicester which was once a very small Parish but was incorporated into another.
There are a number of place names called Belmont with an "l" in Eng, Ire, and Scotland but they were not Parishes.

Usually in those times the "s" was written as "f". So the name on the bilbo MAY be newer.

My response from the seller was-
"hi dont no anything about them except they come from a large estate that i cleared around 15 years ago . other hand cuffs old traps rare antiques ect ect . these were in the attic thanks"

I don't know how much of that is true because they sold in May 2012 as part of a collection for 300 Pounds.

http://www.thecanterburyauctiongallerie ... ms_various

Personally, I think it is a very nicely made, and possibly old item, but I think it is now a nice novelty item. The padlock would not have been used originally because the hole in the bar is rectangular suggesting a wedge or a split spring washer would have been used.

Make up your own mind.
Paul
Click to expand...
NO NORTH ARKANSAS

LK D~D