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Torture Thumbscrews

25 visible archived posts · 25 preserved total · topic ID 5097
Original topic ↗Recovered images
Mark Lyons 14 Dec 2012
#1
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Paul Davies 14 Dec 2012
#2
Hi Mark,
where did the illustration come from and date from? and is the spanner electro plated? That is what I would use to date it - after the mid 1800s. Interesting.
Paul
Michael Busch 14 Dec 2012
#3
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
http://www.economypoint.org/c/constitut ... siana.html

https://www.google.com/search?hl=de&qsc ... 24&bih=575
Michael Busch 14 Dec 2012
#4
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Sorry for bringing this thread out of shape, that was not intended!

Michael
Mark Lyons 14 Dec 2012
#5
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Hi Paul,

I found the drawing in an image search such as the one Michael provided.
The wrench is not plated, or if it is, I am not able to tell.
It appears to be polished steel.

mark
O--O
grenchat 14 Dec 2012
#6
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
When Galileo Galilei challenged the long standing Biblical proclamation, "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved" - Psalms 104:5, he was called to Rome and tried for heresy. Under threat of torture, he was forced to publicly recant and placed under house arrest while the church secreted away his scientific findings.

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/galileo.html

A page replete with the implements of torture used in his day including Mark's thumbscrews can be found HERE.

Please scroll down and also note the inclusion of the far more heinous "Skull Crusher".

Regards,
Jason




Paul Davies 14 Dec 2012
#7
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Thanks for he links.
I trust the books from the time more than websites. The spanner without patina had bothered me but I'm no metal expert.
It is a beautifully made and very nice item.
If you don't have Steve's book - Catalog of Cruelty - it is a good reference.
Thanks for sharing.

Paul
Jack.Tanis 14 Dec 2012
#8
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Dear Mark,

You no doubt will be acquiring, if you do not have one already, a copy of this.



"Illustrated Catalogue of the Historical and World-Renowned Collection of Torture Instruments, Etc. from the Royal Castle of Nuremberg", Julius David Ichenhäuser, J. J. Little & Co., Astor Place, New York, 1893. 5 7/8" width by 9 1/4" height, stapled wraps. 1,325 descriptions and numerous Hors Texte, versos blank, full page woodcut illustrations. From the catalogue: "THESE TORTURE INSTRUMENTS were purchased on behalf of the Earl of Shrewsbury, by Mr. J. D. Ichenhäuser, expert in works of art and curios, 68 New Bond St., London, by whom this catalogue was compiled. The entire collection was removed from the Royal Castle of Nuremberg, in April, 1890, since which time it has been exhibited in all the principal cities of Great Britain by special permission of Lord Shrewsbury. It is the original and only genuine collection of its kind, and what adds to the impressiveness of the exhibition is the fact that every one of the barbarous implements have been in actual use."

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm
Steve_Mollett 14 Dec 2012
#9
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that for every genuine torture instrument made and used in the period, countless fakes were made from 1800 on as "tourist bait" displays by castle owners, and as museum "Chamber of Horrors" exhibits.

With the advent of the "Gothic" story, starting with "The Castle of Otronto," tourists expected every castle to be haunted, and to have a dungeon with a torture chamber.

Castle owners who HAD a dungeon in the castle would hire the local carpenters and blacksmiths to MAKE torture devices to display to the public, some based on actual instruments and some based on pure fantasy.

A castle owner who did NOT have a dungeon often converted a wine cellar--anything to keep paying visitors happy.
Mark Lyons 15 Dec 2012
#10
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Thanks to everyone for their input.

Jack: I do have a copy of this book and it seems that this book was used as a guide to explain the various devices when the collection was displayed at 115 and 117 W. 23rd St. in New York in 1893.
1325 items were on display and this guide book gives a description of each item. Unfortunately, they did not include a picture of these items so that people like me could see what they were referring to when describing these 1325 highly prized items, a hundred + years later.

I believe most or all of the collection was sold and some are now at the Kriminal Museum at Rothenburg.

mark
O--O
Ian McColl 15 Dec 2012
#11
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
I find it amusing that some many people come here all bent out of shape due to some reproduction cuff appearing on Ebay beginning sold as authentic. As Steve says, castle owner had fakes made, churches have had fake relics made, I have made items of torture for well known displays, Australian ex cons made repros of their own shackle to sell to tourist. the circle of life goes on in all ages. Nothing changes.

Ian
PS, I made one of there too but I bent the bars like in the drawing.
Mark Lyons 16 Dec 2012
#12
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Here is another thumbscrew which is displayed at the Kriminal Museum in Rothenburg, Germany.
It is much more ornate but lacks the curve that appears in my example.
It was hard to get nice clear shots of these items as they were behind glass and the lighting was bad.





mark
O--O
Steve Santini 17 Dec 2012
#13
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Hate to tell you this Mark but the tumbscrews you have are a late 1990's copy of a style featured in the 1769 book on legal torture, "The Constitutio Criminalis Theresiana" (of which I have an original first edition volume).

These relica screws were made in the Czech Republic by a firm known as "OWK" who used to manufacture and sell a wide assortment of replica torture instruments including the leg crushing "Spanish Boot" also illustrated in The Theresiana.

They are worth about $400 tops.

While torture instruments were indeed relicated from the 1800's right up until modern times, as with your thumbscrew, original examples do indeed exist and are offered for sale from time to time.

However, it takes a great deal of knowledge and experience to detect the real from the fake. It is a lot harder and more specialized branch of research than with factory made restraints.

One needs to not only know about metal work and how items can be artificially aged, etc, but one needs to know about how torture was applied under the law and which items were, and were not used in that framework.

This is why I have personally travelled to Europe many times to consult with and learn from experts in ancient justice methods. It is also why I have taken great pains to assemble a world class collection of authentic woodcut illustrations and antique justice books printed in the regions where such instruments were used.

Steve Santini

Steve Santini 17 Dec 2012
#14
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Just for interest's sake, the "skull crusher" you make mention of never actually existed as a torture instrument.

The photo of the alleged "authentic" one that appears in books and on the web is actually a modified cider or grape press.

A bucket would originally be below the pressing plate.

Since the idea of judicial torture was to make one confess, and, since under much ancient European law sentence could not be carried out until a person did confess guilt a device that would kill them by crushing the skull is idiotic by its mere existance.

Yet another "fantasy" torture instrument illustrated in the book "Inquisition" put out by the owners of an Itallian torture collection who routinely tour it around the world as the "real thing" when in fact much it is replica and even devices that never actually existed or were used.

Steve Santini
grenchat 17 Dec 2012
#15
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Thanks for shedding some light on these dark artifacts, Steve.

Guess the heinous "Skull Crusher" was actually just a bad vise.

Steve_Mollett 17 Dec 2012
#16
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
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It should also be mentioned that the dreaded Eiserne Jungfrau (Iron Maiden) was a hoax from the get-go.
It was actually a Czech "Iron Cloak" (Drunkard's Cloak variant), to which the headpiece and spikes were added for show.
It was quite popular and widely copied.
The Royal Castle of Nuremberg kept the original in storage, and made a copy for display.
The original was destroyed, along with the castle, by allied bombers in 1944.
The copy had been sold to the Earl of Shrewsbury, and is now housed in the Rothenberg museum.
Steve Santini 18 Dec 2012
#17
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Your history of the Iron Maiden is not correct.

The original device was not of Czech origin at all.

Please see the chapter on it in my book, "The Catalog of Cruelty."

Steve Santini

tim71 18 Dec 2012
#18
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Mark,

To answer one part of your question, I believe it would make me uneasy to own something used to cause paid or death.

Just my 2 cents.
Ian McColl 18 Dec 2012
#19
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
quote:
would make me uneasy to own something used to cause paid(sic) [pain?] or death.

the list is endless.
car, knife, voice, thoughts, actions, pillow, two hands, bath swimming pool. lighter (fire) fuel (fire) will all cause death.

most of these torture items where made and used for upholding Christian doctrine. heretics like me were tortured and put to death by those believers who ruled by fear and force, same thing today, not much has changed.

Steve_Mollett 18 Dec 2012
#20
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Steve,

I'm always looking for new data on this elusive device.
Source for your book?
Steve_Mollett 18 Dec 2012
#21
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Oh, and my "Czech" origin data stems from a Nuremberg historian who described the iron cloak as hailing from "Bohemia."
Confidentially, the more I've probed the history of the original, and the 'travels' of the copy, the more contradictions I have encountered.
I have had no luck whatsoever obtaining a copy of R. L. Pearsall's "Die Eiserne Jungfrau. Legende und Wirklichkeit."
Steve Santini 19 Dec 2012
#22
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
"Source" for my book?

Try "sources."

Namely numerous period justice documents, books, and personal interviews with european collectors, historians, and museum curators.

Further, I also own a very rare original photograph that appears in my book that shows the Nuremburg Maiden without spikes installed in it.

Forget all about things like a "Drunkard's Cloak" since there never were drunkard's "cloaks". (just barrels they were forced to wear), and start looking into public shaming devices.

All of the so called Iron Maidens are spin offs of the Nuremburg original and one even exists that was cobbled together from an iron "shame mask" and a later made wooden casket with some period bayonett blades hammered through the doors to act as the spikes. This fake is currently in the Ripley's collection.

My personal theory about the one from Nuremburg, (and, I believe I am the first person to think this way), is that it never was a torture or execution device but was in fact a type of penatent's casket from which the sinner would emerge from the womb, (i.e., the open doors), symbolizing a rebirth in faith facilitated by the Virgin Mary. Henceforth the female face and head.

Like I said earlier, one needs to do a ton of research, which I have, on the period justice customs and how they meshed with extant religious beliefs of the time to understand how symoblism, superstition, and faith worked together to spawn the creation of many of these instruments.

Until you know how the people of the time were thinking one cannot accurately understand how these devices were really meant to be used.

Steve Santini



Steve_Mollett 21 Dec 2012
#23
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
By "source," I meant where one would obtain a copy of your book.
Anonymous 21 Dec 2012
#24
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Boy, did he ever get defensive!
Steve Santini 21 Dec 2012
#25
Hi,

Today, I entered into a different realm of collecting.
Previously, my collection was made up of restraints of all kinds; cuffs, leg irons, chain nippers, come-a-longs, thumbcuffs, and thumbscrews.
The addition below is a thumbscrew or Pilliwink that was NOT used to restrain a prisoner but rather to torture one.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about restraints, but torture instruments, not so much.

I am positive that this new addition is 100% authentic and of German origin. I also believe that this was made in the late 1700's or thereabout.

I searched most or all of the postings about thumbscrews in the Forum but most offerings were about the small (non-torture) thumbscrews that French police used in the late 1800's to about 1930.

Steve Santini posted the bottom picture of 4 thumbscrews in his collection,a few years ago, but I did not see a picture of one like mine in any of the searches.

Seeing so many torture devices in Germany recently, made me think of acquiring some, but wanting to own something that caused so much pain to another human is foreign to me. The aura that this gives is very negative and I was perplexed when it was offered to me. As an aside, it is a significant historical object that ties into my restraint collection.
The detail and time to produce this is amazing. It is a work of art. Too bad it was used for such sinister purposes and not as something that could advance mankind.

Steve Santini has displayed many objects like this. I would ask if he has trouble owning such objects. The desire to own items that were actually used to break bones or cause death to another by the use of torture instruments is a very uneasy decision to make and I am curious what other collectors have to say.












mark
O--O
Click to expand...
Amazon.com
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