The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

lionheart handcuffs

20 visible archived posts · 20 preserved total · topic ID 513

george 14 Apr 2005

What kind of quaility is the lionheart handcuffsare they the same as HWC,valor etc... I have hinged ,chain and leg shackles...from this company..

Edward 14 Apr 2005

They are identical to HWC (junk), just a different name stamped on them. I will not use HWC (or related cuffs from this manufacturer) again! I had a subject high on PCP who broke my pair of HWC stainless cuffs. I will stick to NIJ certified cuffs from this point on!

george 14 Apr 2005

Ya they do look cheap.I just wanted to know so i could know what box to put them in so the junk box of handcuffs they go...You should get a pair of gotcha cuffs i have one pair of evey model (5 models) they are a great cuff and even on PCP i dont think they will break..

tim71 16 Apr 2005

Hey George. Have you took any pics of the gotcha cuffs? I've seen the website but those pics aren't very real looking. I might try to get a deputy friend of mine to order a pair for me. They look awesome.

Tim

Peter69 16 Apr 2005

Yeah:
I was told they werent makin the lightweight cuffs yet.

Daniel 18 Apr 2005

Lionheart and HWC are both handcuffs that should not be used in the field of law enforcement. Working in law enforcement, and dealing with people doped up on pcp or even other substances, I even seen peerless cuffs break! But my self collecting handcuffs as well as using them in the field, HWC and Lionheart, I am able to take them and pull the jaw of the cuff right out from the lock, and that is with my natural strength!

Edward 18 Apr 2005

I agree with you Daniel 100%! When my HWC's broke it wasn't a pretty sight. We had to re-restriain this jerk with a set of Hiatts hinged. He sure wasn't able to break those! I have since picked up a set of Hiatts hinged for myself & are using them as my primary set. The HWC's were a backup set for me that I just happened to grab that night in the struggle. I only recommend NIJ certified handcuffs for any type of restraining (police, security, prisioner transport, etc.). Even a "backup set" should meet NIJ standards. They don't cost that much more.

tim71 19 Apr 2005

When you guys say "broke" what exactly do you mean? I have had 2 pair of HWC cuffs and the first ones I could give a sharp jerk and one cuff would pop open. I've never bench pressed 200 lbs by the way. The pair I have now don't do that by the way. Is this what you guys mean by breaking them or is the perp physically breaking the chain? If that's the case then it must be one heck of a struggle to cuff them in the first place.

I think the main problem with some hwc is that the spacing is too far for the teeth to engage fully. I have seen worse ones though...NIJ certified would be the best but on the non certified ones I would rate galls much better then HWC.

Tim

Tim

Edward 19 Apr 2005

First off, Galls is the same as HWC they just have theirs made in Nickel instead of Stainless Steel. If you compare the two, they are identical except for the finish. The subject I had broke the HWC Stainless Steel cuffs by bending the jaw arm & snapping it out of the body of the cuff. He was hopped up on PCP so yes he was pretty wild. It took six of us to re-restrain him. Once he was re-restrained (with a pair of Hiatts Hinged) he could not break them even though he still was combative. We use my old HWC's as an example in training of what could happen if you carry non-NIJ certified cuffs.

Edward

Daniel 20 Apr 2005

#10

Tim,
I have seen officers in the same situation as Edward described! Prisoners can easily take HWC or Lionheart or any of those other non regulation handcuffs that are mainly used by a lot of security officers and take the jaw or arm right out of the locking mechanism. I as mentioned before can do that with HWC's and Lionheart cuffs. But as mentioned before my partner and myself were at a hospital trying to get a prisoner cleared when being on PCP and what ever else, and he broke a set of Peerless right at the swivel link, making the cuffs separated! So the hinged went on! I honestly dont think someone regardless of there strengh, can break one of the two chain links, but pulling it out of the cuff they can! I seen it.

P.S. I live in WI and I do not know of any equipment store that even carries the HWC's anymore. I even thought they did not make them anymore? Any truth to this! And about the Lionhearts I only know of one place that had those and that was Streichers Police Equipment.

Daniel

tim71 20 Apr 2005

#11

Believe it or not HWC makes a version that's even weaker then the stainless ones. That's what I was comparing the galls to. The HWC I have in my collection is nickel and much thinner physically than the galls I have. Also, the nickel HWC doesn't have the grooved jaws. I knew that HWC made a stainless but I'd never seen them and didn't know they were the same as galls.

I have to ask you guys, when these fellas on PCP break these cuffs, are there wrists broken or badly damaged after such a feat? I bet the guy darn near ripped his hands off on the hiatts hinged cuffs. Probably regreted it later.

Tim

Edward 20 Apr 2005

#12

Daniel,

In response to your question, two local uniform shops here in Illinois sells both the cheap nickel and the "designed for official police use" stainless HWC's. There are plenty of police/security officers that buy these. HWC is a police supply company out of New York that sells to people in it's network. Their website is www.hwcny.com. I believe they get their cuffs from some company in taiwan. They just have their name stamped on them (just like lionheart). I was told the new NIJ Winchester cuffs are basically an NIJ HWC cuff?? Galls also uses this company to produce theirs. I would support the Winchester model but NOT the HWC model. Again, I will only use NIJ certified cuffs from now on, even as backup. If a guy on PCP can break a set of Peerless, then that must tell you something!

Tim,

In response to your question, yes the guys wrists were cut up pretty badly. You have to remember though, people on PCP do not feel pain. I'm sure he felt it later, I don't know, he was admitted into the hospital for drug OD. I'm sure a lawsuit will show up claiming handcuff injuries sometime down the line.

Daniel 21 Apr 2005

#13

George,

Thanks for the info!
I wanted to get a pair of Winchester cuffs for the simple fact that fire arms is another hobby of mine and I collect Winchester, Colt, and Smith & Wesson signs, pins and patches. So I thought the Winchester cuffs did look neat, but if you say there not so good I may just get them for a display or something.

Daniel

Tim,

Yes when people are under the influence of any substance including alcohol, but not as severe, they most of the time do not feel pain. Thats why they will put up a fight, leave a scene of an auto accident where there is a trail of blood that will lead you to the person etc. The Rodney King incident is a great example! The news coverage only showed the officers beating on him!!! They dont show the 5 officers he picked up and through over the patrol cars, and the fight he put up. I was still only in a police explorers post at the time that happened, but had to see the entire tape. I also had to see it when in training. He did not feel any of the blows he took until at least 12-24 hours after the high went away. OC spray wont even phase a subject on PCP which rodney was. Regardless of drugs or not, in the state of Wisconsin, a law enforcement officer can take any means to get a prisoner down and stay down when commanded by the officer. If someone keeps getting up they will do what it takes to keep control of a person. Well I dont want to get way off the subject of cuffs, but you may always email me!

Daniel

tim71 22 Apr 2005

#14

I look at it like this, handcuff someone of regular stature, put a couple strong guys on each arm pulling out until the handcuffs break. The damage it must do to the wrists is something else. I can see a super strong man doing it because they have thick layers of muscle and have the technique down but to take a normal man, jack him up on PCP do where his normal size wrist bear that kind of force makes me cringe....but it your stupid enough to take that stuff then I guess it teaches a good lesson when the drugs wear off.

I wonder if these guys are able to break the medical restraints in these detox places.

Actually the HWC handcuffs I have would be fairly painful since they are thinner even though they pop open easier.

Anyone else ever seen the campco cuffs? I have a pair and they are even cheaper then the HWC but they don't resemble any other model I've seen. They have a ditched jaw but the gap is so large that they don't even come close to being useful. The swivel is really long and thin too and looks like it could go fairly easy.

Tim

Edward 24 Apr 2005

#15

Daniel,

There should be nothing wrong with the Winchester cuffs, they are made to NIJ specs and are NIJ approved.

Tim,

I've never heard of anyone breaking medical restraints. Most of the hospitals around me use the locking leather restraints. I suppose it could happen if the leather straps were worn but again, I've never heard of it.

Ed

Dorson 24 Apr 2005

#16

The way they use the medical restraints which are either leather or synthetic materials is the way in which they are used. The subject if properly restrainted can not gain any leverage to rip them apart. They generally use 2.25" wide leather of around 9-10 oz. leather. I have a small collection of Humane Restraint which is representative of the industry and for violent subjects they use a bed to restraint the person in what is called a 5 point system. The ankles are secured, the wrists, and a strap over the chest. They also don't leave the subject alone.

-Dorson

David 21 Dec 2005

#17

I wish to thank you all for the excellent conversation on cheap handcuffs. I was inclinded to buy a cheap pair of Galls cuffs to keep around just in case, but after reading your comments I will buy NIJ certified instead. I think that I sometimes forget that the life saving equiptment that I carry on my duty belt is just that: life saving and that I should not cheap out. It is interesting that I am willing to spend more every week on Lattes than the difference in price between junk cuffs and the real deal. I think that this runs deeper than I am willing to admit. There are quite a few Officers that buy the cheapest duty belts, flashlights and holsters that exist. But I am reminded that you often times get what you pay for. Best wishes and think of me next time you drive by some public housing projects in San Francisco. I will be the one in Blue BDU's wearing star 845.

security officer 29 Dec 2005

#18

safety is important to everyone in law inforcement or security officer work,

security officer arizona 29 Dec 2005

#19

some times you dont get what you pay for because mostly alot of products we deal with come from over seas,,then we retail them in the united states for a higher price thinking were getting a great deal,,,but its all the same if you justdo the research on the computer youll see what im talking about.i think consumers get cheated all the time for what they buy,,,?,,,what do you think of the triple k handcuffs...i have a pair,,also,,if you understand wholesale and retail marketing,,,then youll understand,,,,,,,what you actually pay for the item you buy,,,like i said if you look at imports from china,,,to find your item,that is shipped to the united states but only under a brand name,,,or no name at all,,really cheap...,,but if you look at money,,its all about making money in todays worlds,right people
thats why i say really shop around before you buy anything.

Anonymous 30 Dec 2005

#20

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE?