2 questions about Hiatt Darby Cuffs

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

I have to admit that I'm not a fan of modern Hiatt cuffs either.
As to when and why they changed to an alloy I'm not sure but someone here will know.
Straight jackets are more suited to violent lunatics so I won't offer my opinion on these or any other cuff as an option.

Now to the old Hiatts.
Since the design did not really change in 200 years, it is the subtle differences that need to be looked at.
More modern bows have the bow and loop, or clevis, cast all as one piece.
I think it is agreed that if they say "British Made" then they are post 1920s.
If they say "Warranted Wrought" they are post 1850.
If they are plated they are post 1830s or plated later as a refurbishment. Chrome plate is newer than nickel plate. Nickel plate often has copper plating under it and tends to peel off.
The adjustable cuff was patented in 1885.
The style and size of lettering seems to change over time. The smaller, serifed fonts seem to be older cuffs.
The different Hiatt addresses on the cuffs can be telling. ie Moore St, or Masshouse Lane and BIRMm (Birmingham).
The key shape also changes over time. The heart shaped key heads being older than oval or round heads.
If the construction of the threaded tube shows a seam down the length of it, it is a rolled piece of metal and is older than a solid tube with a thread cut into it.
Electric welded links are newer than blacksmith made links.
Cast swivels newer than blacksmith made swivels etc, etc

The threads on the old keys are many and varied.

Paul D

Excellent info Paul! More than I could have hoped for. I just received a very old set yesterday and will give it a very close look with your info in hand. I taped the box back up as it's going under the tree so I have something to look forward to for Christmas!

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Hiatt started using the alloy metal for darby cuffs in the mid 1970s. The alloy was cheaper to manufacture and finish.
While the alloy cuffs are genuine Hiatt cuffs, most collectors are only interested in the earlier production cuffs that were made of steel.

Hope this helps.

Steve

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

My dad was a qualified Steel Toy Maker and Handcuff Forger and served his apprenticeship at Hiatts in Masshouse Lane, Birmingham.
He worked here for several years as the chief Blacksmith and was mainly employed in handcuff production. This would have been from around 1933 to the early 1950's.
All dads handcuffs were hand forged (fire welded) wrought iron, and every part including the rolled internal threaded key and the chains and their swivel links were hand made on the various anvils and formers. The only part that was pre manufactured was the key handle, which was supplied in cast iron.
I still have several pairs of darbys including a miniture test pair dad made as an example of his skill, and these he had nickle plated.
Unfortunately I don't have the expertise to post photo's (which I have on my computer) of these cuffs on this forum, but if anyone wishes to instruct me how to do it I'd be happy to share them.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

We would really like to see you cuffs. If you email me the pictures at: lauher@handcuffs.org I would be glad to add them to your posting.

Joe

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

I agree! Some photos would be great. -Especially of the miniature cuffs!
We know Thomas Froggatt made a very neat set of miniature Darby cuffs to his
daughter. They have been posted here before.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/m ... +handcuffs

Lars

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, I've emailed you the pics. Paul

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Here are Paul's pictures. The small cuff is really wonderful!
Thanks for sharing.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much Paul for the pics and info about your dad and Hiatt!

Very cool little cuffs!

I wish we could see some pics of the factory and the works inside it.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the picture of your fathers tiny handcuffs.

He must have worked there during an interesting period when Froggatt was bought out and the Hiatt factory was bombed out during the war.
If you have any stories that you recall him telling you I/we would love to hear them. If you click on the blue link, you can email me direct if you wish.

Paul Davies

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for providing the photos! The miniature Hiatt are extremely neat and we
all understand your father was a great craftsman. Making such a small set must have
been very hard. I'm not only a restraint collector, I'm very keen on miniatures as well.

If you ever consider selling them, I would be very interested.

Thanks,

Lars

(lars@holstcollection.com)

www.holstcollection.com

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

My Dad started his apprenticeship in June 1930, his initial wages being £1.1.0d (one guinea) rising to the giddy heights of £2 upon completion in October 1933. I still have his apprenticeship papers which were signed by Hiatts directors R B Currie, H H Thomas, and H Hastings. So in answer to Paul yes, he had been qualified for about 4 years when Thomas Froggatt joined the firm. I recently showed my Mom a picture of Froggatt and she said straightaway "oh I remember him" did'nt remember his name tho' but at 97 I think we're allowed the odd lapse in memory!
Sadly there are no photographs of Dads workplace as most of their records were destroyed during the war and in a subsequent fire, but Dad gave me lots of verbal information as to it's general layout etc.
One strange fact he told me was that in addition to all the bench mounted small anvils, vices and swage blocks there was a main two bick anvil mounted in an old millstone near the entrance. After experimenting with various materials they found that the best stuff to absorb the 'shock' of the anvil was to mount it, within this millstone, on a bed of horse muck! This was apparently the best insulator and was plentyful and freely available. It was changed on a weekly basis.
Dad had to quit Blacksmithing on account of a chest condition which was blamed on the fumes from the coke breeze which they burned in the forge. This left Hiatts in some trouble as it was very much a 'handed down man to man' sort of job, and after a year or so of being repeatedly asked to return he did so, but inevitably had to quit for good.
I appreciate everyone's interest, thank you.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Thanks for letting us know the story about your Dad!
I'm especially impressed by how manual the work was.
It seems there was not many machines involved in the manufacturing.
What year was your Dad born and when did he pass?

Thanks,

Lars

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Hello Lars, Dad was born in 1912 and died aged 91 some ten years ago. His name was Leslie Ivor Dipper and some of his cuffs have L.I.D stamped on the end of the barrel. Apparently this was random and many cuffs were not stamped at all. Sometimes newly forged cuffs were stamped with the initials of the assembler, rather than the Blacksmith who made them. Assembling the cuffs was apparently part of the training programme. Because I'm familiar with Dads cuffs I can usually make an educated guess as to whether an unmarked Hiatt was made by him or someone else. Its difficult to explain but every Blacksmith seemed to have their individual approach, the metal may be more tapered there, or finer here, if you see what I mean. He used to make many cuffs every week so his methods tended to be repetative.
His job also included making leg irons and scolds bridles and most of his work went for export. It seems Dads shop was, as you said a place of almost exclusively manual labour, he never mentioned any machinery being involved, tho' I'm not sure whether this was the case elsewhere at the works where other items may have been produced. Paul.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Hold everything, did you just say 'scolds bridles'?......for export?.....This has to be the ultimate rare Hiatt piece. Thanks for sharing some of your families history with Hiatts, it is very interesting, and a first for this forum I think. Hope there is some more to follow.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


[/IMG]

[/IMG]

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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

It would seem likely that any scolds bridles Dad made would have been for use as museum exhibits. Dad did'nt know why he was asked to make them, but he was slightly puzzled as to why such an archaic item was required.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Hi Paul,

I have a scold's bridle formerly from the Hiatt collection /ex Chris Gower collection. It is likely your Father made it.

Cheers, Steve Santini

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Steve- Any chance of some pics of it?

BTW, I started a new thread for the Scold's Bridle.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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[/IMG]

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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Hello Paul,

Thanks for all great information. It's that kind of information collectors never get.
I really wish there were some photos from your Dad's time at Hiatt. I didn't realize
there was one person doing the basic work and another trainee person assembling the
parts. Very interesting to know.

Is there any chance you would consider selling the miniature set?
Please email me at lars@holstcollection.com

I'm just crazy about miniatures. Below is a photo of a fully working set of miniature Peerless handcuffs.

Thanks,

Lars

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


[/IMG]

[/IMG]

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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

I did wonder about the Scolds Bridle being for a Museum or similar. Thanks again for the information on Darby production, very interesting. As Lars says, shame there are no Photographs from this important industrial period of manufacture in the 'workshop of the world' Birmingham. I lived there for a short time and was amazed at the small cottage industries that continue to make/repair/restore all manner of mechanical things. Being a British Bike guy, I was in heaven!. I will be looking more closely now at my collection of Darbies, that's for sure. C.

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Love those mini Peerless cuffs, but wish they were left and right handed. Do they actually have an internal dog to engage the milled jaws?

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Paul B. Dipper,
Personally I appreciate and would love to hear more about how the cuffs and other items were made. So much is lost to time and all we can do is make educated guesses at how something was made. For a number of years I have suspected how they were made and now you have confirmed my guess work in general. Either you can post here or contact me privately if you wish.

-Dorson

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Jason,

Even the interior parts in the mini Peerless are exact copies of the real one and so is
the function and the number of teeth in the bows (20).
I have attached a close-up of the pawl.The next set made, a S&W Model 90, came with a left and
a right hand cuff.

Lars

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the detailed photo, Lars. These cuffs resemble the so called Peerless "third model," as subsequent Peerless models have the dog punched in to simplify manufacturing. Also, it appears that these cuffs feature an elongated dog, as is the case with the S&W model 9xx series cuffs.

Happy Collecting!

Jason

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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[/IMG]

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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Chris, you've hit a weak spot with your comments. I am passionate about my home towns industrial heritage, from guns to jewelry, Birmingham, 'the city of a thousand trades' was highly instrumental in making this tiny island a world power in the Victorian era.
I read the other day that over three quarters of a million Birmingham guns were exported to the US during the civil war, and were used by both Confederate and Union armies. Not a thing to boast about you might say but it does show a light on the prodigeous industrial capacity during those times.
As for motorbikes, virtually every marque was produced in the Birmingham area. Norton, B.S.A, Ariel, Triumph, Royal Enfield the list goes on.
I understand that this is a digression from the topic we're discussing but I'm hoping for the readers indulgence! It's all in the metal bashing sphere that is/was so prevalent here. It's hardly surprising that Dad became a Blacksmith because his father and grandfather were Coppersmiths, metal craft runs in the family.
I appreciate your interest and everybody's comments, thank you. Paul

For those who know:

I have a pair of the Hiatt adjustable Darbies 115HN that I bought new about 5 years ago. They are some pot metal or cast material and chromed or nickled. Someone crude has ground various parts of the bow to get it to work but as for workmanship or apparent quality...a bit lacking.

Were these intended as real working handcuffs or just a novelty item for reenactors or similar?

Why did Hiatt transition from cast iron to pot metal and when?

How strong are they? Would they be expected to hold a violently lunatic felon or they'd crumple like yesterday's Kleenex?


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___________________________________________________________________

Other question is, how can one tell how old a pair of Hiatt Darby cuffs are? On ebay and elsewhere you see old sets that say Victorian etc. And others look to be much more recent, like the fifties or sixties. But really, they don't look that different in construction.

How would one know how old they might be, other than guessing by the patina?

Do the keys have the same thread on a pair of 1800's Darbies and a pair from much more recently?

I am aware of the various fakes you see on ebay, plantation shackes and the like...I'm talking real Hiatt's.

Click to expand...

Steve, as Tom has alreadt enquired, any chance of a picture of your Hiatts scolds bridle?
Cheers, Paul