The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

RARE Medieval leg irons for sale

43 visible archived posts · 43 preserved total · topic ID 577

Steve Santini 24 May 2005

I currently have a set of rare German "cup" style Medieval leg irons complete with original padlocks for sale.

Anyone interested in these can e mail me at steveshackles@myway.com for more info and a price. Serious inquiries only please.

The condition of this set is VERY GOOD. These are like the ancient Swiss or Swedish style dungeon leg irons but without the leather wrap around them.

Cheers, Steve Santini

ron poush 26 May 2005

if you have these items im willing to look and see if there is anything that interests me im thinking about starting a collection of various restraints since my wife says my firearms are getting too expensive so im out of them

Steve Santini 26 May 2005

Hi all,

Two serious collectors have e mailed me asking for pictures of this ancient restraint and I was only too happy to oblidge.

I thank these folks for the interest.

Should anyone else seek images of these, simply e mail me.

I would have posted pics here but, (blushes), I am too ignorant to know how to go about doing it!

Steve Santini

Joe Lauher 27 May 2005

Here are pictures of Steve's cuff. Quite complicated. And quite interesting.

Joe

Steve Santini 27 May 2005

Thanks for putting the pics up Joe.

One of these days I must learn how to do this myself!

Cheers, Steve Santini

Mark Lyons 27 May 2005

Hi
There seems to be quite a few of these shackles being presented lately. I know that just about all of them are coming from Germany as I bought mine from a German seller and know other examples of these shackles to have originated from there as well. I was told that most criminal museums over there have one or more "dungeon shackles" on display.

What I do not know is how old they are. Could they really be from the medieval times? They don't seem to be 1000+ years old. I could belive that they were made in the early 1800's and possibly into the late 1700's. Do they appear to be made in one place or is there enough variation between the known examples that would indicate that they were made in various locations or at different times?
Were they used for arrest situations, transportation, or Gaol or dungeon use?

A similar leg iron is thought to have originated in Sweden or Finland and are usually wrapped in leather as Steve described. Just about all the examples that I have seen have near perfect leather on them. If they are old or even been in service at a prison, how is it that they are so pristine?
If any of you readers can shed some light on this topic, I would really appreciate it.
m

Steve Santini 27 May 2005

Hi Mark,

I have had several examples of these over the years. I, like you, am not conviced all of them originate to Medieval times.

However, that being said, the "cup" style irons that these are a part of the family of, do in fact date to the 1500's and 1600's.

The pattern and style are indeed very old.

I have always thought that many of the Swiss or Swedish examples of these irons are 1) either very old and fitted with leather at a later date, or, 2) are of more recent manufacture and lined with leather at the time of thier construction.

I am also of the belief and opinion, (logically), that the leather covered restraints like this were intended to take the comfort of the prisoner into consideration. Raw metal tends to chaffe skin and cause infections, particularly if the prisoner has to walk or move a good deal while wearing the irons.

Possibly the leather covered ones from Sweden or the like were intended to be used with convict labour and so the person needed to move around in them without inflicting injury. This would also explain the commonly seen long lengths of chain or double chains between them to allow more freedom of movement.

It is also just as likely that those without leather wraps are older and designed without the comfort of the prisoner in mind.

After all, in Medieval times it was the soul, and not the body of the convicted or condemmed that mattered most.

Steve Santini

Steve Santini 27 May 2005

Mark,

Maybe not 1000 years but certainly 500 or 600 years old.

This puts them right around the mid to late 1500's to the mid to late 1600's.

It is not too much of a stretch to imagine that some of these devices date to that period.

When I was in Rottenburg this past Oct I visited the Medieval Kriminal Museum. On display were not only numerous pairs of these type irons but also other more sinister items like neck irons, thumbscrews, and iron belts, etc.

It was obvious many of these were even older but all seemed in fairly good condition.

This can be attributed to a stable climate and a lack of contact with corrosive agents, natural or otherwise.

Any archaeologist familiar with ancient metal will tell you, it is not the age of the piece that determines it's condition, but rather where it was found and the elements it was in contact with prior to it's discovery.

Steve Santini

Steve Santini 27 May 2005

One more point of interest comes to mind...

I have, for most of my life, been interested in and involved with the wreck of the Titanic.

The Titanic is perhaps the most tangible example of how surrounding conditions affect the corrosion of iron and steel.

Certainly there are older wrecks out there but suprisingly many are in better condition than the Titanic.

This has to do with the manufacturing techniques of the steel hull, (Titanic's was heavy in sulfides and other impuraties), and also the location of the wreck, (i.e. salt water vs. fresh, depth, exposure to light, propogation of destructive marine organisms, etc).

What this all proves is that it is the steel or iron structure combined with environmental elements that determines condition of any metal artifact.

Food for thought, Steve Santini

Pastor Clyde 27 May 2005

#10

Steve,

Great restraints! I'd love to own them but am sure they are worth more than I could pay. I did save a copy of the picture. Is that okay? Also, would love to hear from you regarding your lightening bar cuffs.

Take care!

Clyde

michael griffin 28 May 2005

#11

Hi all:
I am not convinced these are original. The thing that bothers me is the chain. It appears to be modern with almost identical links. The authentic leg irons I have seen or owned are definately crafted one at a time and look right.
Also the locks arent right.
so for what it's worth, that is my observation
let the flaming begin

Steve Santini 28 May 2005

#12

Hi Michael,

No flaming here.

Each link is hand forged. No weld or other traces of modern manufacture.

In fact, the last link of the cahin clearly has a forge weld.

The other links are not completely uniform yet each extremely well made all the same with no tarace of joint as modern chain would have.

Oh well, to each thier own. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Steve Santini

Ian McColl 28 May 2005

#13

This is the only set of 'cup ' irons I have seen with a laminated 'cup'. Also the hinges are rolled and appear to stop back at the base. Where as old blacksmithed items as they would have been have seamless 'cups' and forged hinges. I agree that the chain doesn't appear to be old either. The links are too even and are small ovals for the diameter of the link. A hard task to make them this even and small when supposed to be 15th century blacksmithed chain.

Ian

Steve Santini 28 May 2005

#14

Oh yeah,

Spring wedge push key locks and screw key locks (like these irons are fitted with) were the two most popular types of mechanisms used to secure ancient restraints (that is, those that did not use rivets to fasten them).

Those interested in researching this are recommended to consult the excellent books on restraint history authored by Alex Nichols.

Steve Santini

Steve Santini 28 May 2005

#15

Well, well,...

A "tag team" effort. How interesting...

Like I said earlier, everyone is entitled to thier own opinions.

For interests sake, identical irons to these are currently on display in the Medieval Kriminal Justice Museum in Rottenburg.

In fact, the Director was shown this very pair.

I figure if anyone might have an informed opinion it may just be a museum that specializes in the conservation and display of such articles.

Oh well. To each thier own...

Steve Santini

Ian McColl 28 May 2005

#16

The cross in the iron is to me an uncommon shape also. All irons like it that I have seen have square corners and not rounded.

For interests sake,Mr Santini
I remember you stating that the "Director" didn't have a clue about what he had on display and that you with your expertise had to advise him?

Did you give him good advise???

Ian

Ian McColl 28 May 2005

#17

I can see that two (maybe three) links are forged. The flattened end of one link is very visible at the bottom of the picture, ten links up is another forged link. However from the photo, no other loinks have this characteristic.

Any clearer photos?

Ian

Ian McColl 28 May 2005

#18

I need further explanation please.
Which parts of the cuff are supposed to be authentic. The chain is a seperate piece, It may be old, maybe not. The padlocks (both different) are also seperate and are of eastern (Indian) manufacture, these are definately not medieval.

So the only parts I think you are referring to would have to be the shackles? Is this correct?

Ian

Steve Santini 28 May 2005

#19

Hi all,

On behalf of Sal Accaputo, my personal manager in Canada, and myself, we would like to personally thank each and every one of you both here and at the Magic Cafe who have assisted us in the furtherance of our marketing and publicity through the creation of these continuing controversies regarding myself, Santini: The Dark Master of Escape.

Through all the many past months you all have done a fine job of keeping the name Santini a constant source on the world wide web.

Be it through discussions about my web site, my new image, my original escapes, or silly things like who is really who, or what is real and what is not, you guys have always pulled through.

Thankfully, you have also nearly always managed to spell my name right.

This helps a great deal, let me tell you!

Sincerely, Steve Santini and Sal Accaputo.

P.S. Keep up the good work!!!

Ian McColl 30 May 2005

#20

Your last post was quaint Steve,
but you didn't answer my questions.

Which parts of the cuff are supposed to be authentic?

The only parts I think you are referring to would have to be the shackles? Is this correct?

Ian

Ian McColl 01 Jun 2005

#21

Please date this for me someone?

Ian

Anonymous 01 Jun 2005

#22

I would date it but I'm already married

It is modern made by Ian McColl. Great looking to boot.

Jim 01 Jun 2005

#23

It looks alot older than the one shown in Santini's pic.
Jim

Shawn Ness 01 Jun 2005

#24

The anon. message was by me, I must have forgotten to enter my info.

Beavis 26 Nov 2005

#25

The padlocks look good on all the pictures, but the horse hobbles, er, shackles look to be eastern european where they are still making them using old techniques, look at the lacquered "antiqued" finish, wouldn't you expect something 500 years old to have a little corrosion??? ~Beavis

Kym Dopheide 08 Dec 2005

#26

Steve- I am doing research for a TV show for the Discovery Channel but the e-mail I found on the internet doesn't work - are you here?

The Amazing Michael 08 Dec 2005

#27

Kym, I sent Steve an e-mail, letting him know that you are looking to speak with him.

Cheers, Mike

The Amazing Michael 08 Dec 2005

#28

Kym, the e-mail I sent Steve failed to reach him. If he doesn't see this message by tomorrow morning, I will e-mail him from my home computer.

Cheers, Mike

craigevans2 03 Nov 2012

#29

Hi I am a big fan of shackles and I would love to buy these beuttiful shackles. Thankyou.

yours sincerly,
Craig Evans

Frank Cole 04 Nov 2012

#30

Hello. I may be totally wrong but while the padlocks appear to be typical Eastern locks and the key is the same as one I have which definitely dates to pre 1840 the wrist caps look to be 19th cent and the chain looks as if it is gas welded which makes it 20th cent. I know the Indians are making a lot of these and putting them on ebay. After they have been sold once they acquire provenance and get harder and harder to prove wrong.

Ian McColl 04 Nov 2012

#31

Hi Frank, which photo are you refering to??
My photo, the second one, shows a pair of cuff I made and used older chain I got from a farm. The padlocks are Indian/eastern.

Mark Lyons 05 Nov 2012

#32

Ian
That was a good test in observancy.
I did not realize what you did til just now.
It might be me that missed it and I may be the only one, but for any of those that didn't get it:
Santini posted his shackles back in 05 and Ian manufactured his version of the shackle and happened to have the same/similar padlocks with an old farm chain to replicate the Santini version.

I guess it went right by me in 05 and once again in 12.

Ian, you might be handy to have around if ever I should lose my dog!

mark
O--O

Ian mcColl 05 Nov 2012

#33

Mark, you missed it until now!!!!

I wondered why there weren't many replies.

what type of dog do you have? is it K9 from Dr Who, I work in metal only.

Anonymous 05 Nov 2012

#34

My dog needed some metal work. He got bit by something in my backyard a year ago and required metal and regular stitches....lot of them. Possum or raccoon. Not a snake.
His whole left side of his neck got infected and they had to cut most of his muscle and skin out. He lost one jugular vein as well.

He was a sick puppy but I gave him all the care he needed.
The vet said he would never be able to turn his neck in one direction and do the wet doggy shake, but Shadow proved him wrong with a couple of weeks.

He made a full 100% recovery and the only difference is that he lost the white tuft under his chin.

I was going to name him Houdini as he loves to escape, but Shadow is also fitting as he follows me everywhere just as my shadow does. Chihuahua/Papillon mix

mark
O--O

Ian mcCColl 05 Nov 2012

#35

The distress of your pet should not be on show, if it was a human, all is fair, but please remove this image.

Ian

Frank Cole 05 Nov 2012

#36

Hi there. It is me shooting from the lip again! I saw the picture and decided to show how clever I am (not). Sorry to all concerned. I even got the date of my own legirons wrong, they are pre 1821 (when they were captured from a slaver) not 1841. Frank

Mark Lyons 05 Nov 2012

#37

Hi Joe,
Yes,
Ians request should be granted.
I should have shared this with him privately.

mark
O--O

Anonymous 05 Nov 2012

#38

Nothing wrong showing this picture. Keep it up.. if you dont want to see it dont look.Great to see the dog is doing fine and is in good health.

Mark Lyons 05 Nov 2012

#39

Anon,
Thank you for that.
I am blessed that Shadow made it ok and I was able to find a vet that cared so much.
This is a cuff forum and I got off track a bit.
I have had many private emails congratulating me for allowing Shadow more time on this Earth and not doing the alternative.
I don't need the praise. There was no deciding in this case.
I am just happy the outcome was so positive and the results were better than expected.

mark
O--O

Michael Lee 05 Nov 2012

#40

2 things ...

1 . WHY the heck is that dogs wounds open like that !!!..What kind of owner are you ??

2. This is the HC.Org site Joe ..Why exactly is that dog on here shown in that condition ?

Michael Lee

Ian McColl 05 Nov 2012

#41

Thanks Mark. It's good to know you have given your dog the best attention. I have three dogs here and do the same thing if and when required. All are rescued dogs and deserve a second chance.

Annon!! if Romney, a Mormon gets into power, I hope they reinstate cannibalism as they did when they got to the promise land and there was nothing to feed the masses. I would offer you up as a meal.

Mark Lyons 05 Nov 2012

#42

Michael lee,
Ito answer your questions:
I consider myself a good dog owner.
I got him from the pound during a search warrant and gave him a good home.
As far as his wounds, he was practically dead when the infection spread
I took him to the finest animal hospital a d he was there for about a week
If you could have performed a better surgery, I will recommend you to the next owner of a pet who runs into a life or death situAtion
The open wound had to have drops every few hours and I had to go home to do this and wake up during the night
The skin grew fast a d he recovered 100%....thank you. As you can imagine the expense was considerable but worth every penny. What kind of owner are you? A garage veterinarian?

Mark
O--O

If you would have read the blog, I already asked joe to remove it as I stated that I got off track with this

Ian mcColl 05 Nov 2012

#43

Hi Mark, one of the reasons I asked for the photo to be removed is because of the emotions it can bring out.
Michael Moore once showed in one of his doco's about a rabbit being clubbed to death and got hate mail, nothing for images of human doing the same humans. I can relate to that.

Lisa and I spent over $20,000 to try to save one of our dogs after a vet mucked up the op. We didn't save him buy offered the chance.

Good on you.

Ian