The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

LILLY LEG IRONS

67 visible archived posts · 67 preserved total · topic ID 5791

LK 16 Oct 2014

Does anyone have a number count on them ???

LK D~D

holstcollection 18 Oct 2014

Hi

I don't believe so. The Lilly leg irons and handcuffs are quite common. Nobody really keeps track on them I believe.

Lars

ronspitz 18 Oct 2014

I agree with Lars a count has not been kept as far a I know. Information has been gathered by one collector on the various sizes and finishes of them, but I don't know how complete it may be.

There has been one group that has been doing limited research on the irons and I hope to post some information in the near future.

Ron

Anonymous 23 Oct 2014

hey, right, Lars

Just bazillions out there, and not worth collecting

LK 23 Oct 2014

Thanks Ron, will be looking forward to your info. Lar's although you have more experience then myself I would have to agree with the ANON above, considering the fact that no one can even name whom LILLY was or even the correct spelling of the name, the limited number out there,the limited number you see available, the few fact's as to whom made them,ect.

I'm not wishing to disagree with an expert but I do believe the number of REAL LILLY'S is smaller then you think

Hopefully Ron's future post can spread some light on the subject!

I recently read about the MET. POLICE IN WASHINGTON D.C. from 1800"s on, an due to the income of the time's being $100.oo a year per officer and the fact that they had to buy their own eguip. and the budget of the force in general we may be overestimating the number of all types of cuffs and leg iron that were really produced at the time !

LK D~D

holstcollection 23 Oct 2014

Hi!

I'm sorry if anyone got me wrong as it wasn't my intention to talk them down. I didn't say these restraints are not desirable to
collect but nobody keeps track on the number of them out there. My impression is that there are quite a few of them in collections
but I might be wrong. Maybe they are fewer than I think.

They are seen on the market from time to time, some of them are the real thing and some are later repros.

I would be great if somebody feel for building up an inventory of both the leg irons and the handcuffs.

Lars

Atame 23 Oct 2014

In case that we start counting now:

Atame's Collection
Lilly Handcuffs: 0
Lilly Leg Irons: 1

Best regards,
Guenter

Joshua 23 Oct 2014

I love the Lilly cuff and leg irons due to the hard historical tie to them. With that said I too agree that their are a decent amount of them out there albeit still pretty hard to come by. I had to wait for a handful of years to get my first one and then all of a sudden I had 3. Odd how things can come in waves. I have 2 and can think of about 21 handcuffs including a few museums. I reckon if the number is 50, 75, 100, in the whole world it's still a pretty low number considering production numbers of today standards. With eBay and the Internet hidden gems are getting harder to find so regardless of how you define the word "rare"...if you don't have one, I suggest you snatch one up if you get the chance.

LK 24 Oct 2014

Excellent idea ATAME !

LK'S COLLECTION

LILLY HAND IRON'S : 0

LILLY LEG IRON"S : 1

LK D~D

PS well the count is 2, lets keep it going

Yossie 24 Oct 2014

#10

One of each :)

Chris Gower 24 Oct 2014

#11

I have one of each.
Chris

Paul Davies 24 Oct 2014

#12

1 of each
Paul

holstcollection 24 Oct 2014

#13

One of each here too.

Lars

Joseph Fox 24 Oct 2014

#14

I have a Lilly Iron handcuff

lauher 24 Oct 2014

#15

Two handcuffs and one leg iron here

Mark Lyons 24 Oct 2014

#16

Large and small handcuffs
and
2 Leg Irons with different style chains

mark
O--O

LK 25 Oct 2014

#17

If I understand JOSHUA correctly he has 2 leg irons and 1 hand iron (cuffs), if so the count at this point is:

Lilly cuffs : 9
Lilly leg irons : 12

LK D~D

Joshua 25 Oct 2014

#18

Sorry for the confusion, I have 2 handcuffs and no leg irons.

Nils 25 Oct 2014

#19

Handcuffs: 0
Leg Irons: 1

LK 25 Oct 2014

#20

Ok thank's JOSHUA,including NIL'S we are at

LILLY HANDCUFFS: 10
LILLY LEG IRONS: 11

LK D~D

PaulReardon 25 Oct 2014

#21

Handcuffs: 1
Legirons: 0

Joshua 26 Oct 2014

#22

Damon has 3 of each as can be seen on his website, John has 1 of each.

LK 26 Oct 2014

#23

So far 15 of each

LK D~D

lauher 26 Oct 2014

#24

Fred Patella sent me these pictures of his collection.
The Third one down is too small to be a legiron??

Unresolved image reference ↗

Gordon 26 Oct 2014

#25

Lilly hand iron 2
1 large 1 small

Lilly leg iron 2
1 large 1 small
tapered links

holstcollection 26 Oct 2014

#26

Michael Busch has at least one set of of each and I'm sure Chris Gower also have them.

Lars

Mark Lyons 26 Oct 2014

#27

There is a pair of "King Breaker" handcuffs that were modified by Houdini and sold at the Radner auction.
I wrote about this event some years ago and the link and photo appear on the home page here.

mark
O--O

LK 27 Oct 2014

#28

Well at this point it looks like the count as far as the majority of the collectors who post on this site stands at 20 of each HAND IRONS and LEG IRONS plus 1 of a different version of the cuff which FRED shared with us through a photo to JOE, THANK YOU BOTH! I love it when I can come here and learn something new!

LK D~D

Michael Busch 27 Oct 2014

#29

Hi all,

Lars, is right, I have both handcuffs and leg-irons, and I am happy to say that I have 2 sets of the leg-irons.

Best to all

Michael

LK 27 Oct 2014

#30

Thanks for clarifying that Michel, I had already counted you with i ea. so the count at this time is 21 ea. with one of the handcuffs being FRED'S variation !

LK D~D

clyde in kansas city 27 Oct 2014

#31

I have 1 pair of leg irons

Nils 28 Oct 2014

#32

What about museums? I went through my photos of the Miami police museum, but couldn't find one that clearly showed any of them.

Kind regards
Nils

Mark Lyons 28 Oct 2014

#33

The Smithsonian has 3 handcuffs.
These were the ones the Lincoln Conspirators wore after their arrests.

My son took a picture of them years ago and I hope to find it.
The below page indicates that they were not on display, but obviously they were at a later point in time.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jDFvAe ... ff&f=false

Incidentally, here is another cuff of note in the museum

http://postalmuseumblog.si.edu/2012/04/ ... cuffs.html

mark
O--O

Anonymous 28 Oct 2014

#34

never knew you had a son!

Mark Lyons 28 Oct 2014

#35

[size=300]2

mark
O--O[/size]

Ariochmagician 29 Oct 2014

#36

I have two sets of leg irons, One has oval links and the other are twisted.

LK 30 Oct 2014

#37

As of 10/30/2014 it looks like the count is 21 hand irons (cuffs) & 24 leg irons for collectors collections !

museums not included at this time !

LK D~D

ronspitz 30 Oct 2014

#38

I have two pairs of wrist cuffs which i think are the two smallest sizes. One measures 11 5/16" in length, measured from end of hinges and 2 5/8" X 2" on the cuff oval. It has the Roman numeral IX or XI depending on how you view it.

The second set is 12 7/16" in length and 2 1/4" X 1 13/16" on the cuff oval and is marked with a 6 or 9 again depending how you look at it.

Two pairs of leg irons one having the five flat links with a length of 8 3/4" from center hinges and 3 3/4 " X 3 1/4" inside of each cuff.

The second set has two long links at each end of a twisted oval five link chain with a total length from center hinges of 11" and the cuffs are 4 1/4" X 3 3/4" inside measurements.

Ron

LK 31 Oct 2014

#39

THANKS RON,
10/31/2014 HAPPY HALLOWEEN,

23 CUFFS
26 LEG IRONS

So far this has really been an interesting and informative thread, for me anyway, I had no idea there were so many variations,such as Fred's and Ron's amazing collections thanks for sharing guy's !

LK D~D

BradD1 01 Nov 2014

#40

I have two hand cuffs - one boy's size and one girl's size. One set of leg irons, five oblong links.

Brad

LK 04 Nov 2014

#41

As of NOV. 4TH, 2014

25 CUFFS
27 LEG IRONS

LK D~D

joeyg14450 06 Nov 2014

#42

Hi all. I have 1 cuff, 1 leg iron.

LK 06 Nov 2014

#43

thanks JOE G.
also counting ANDREW's who just posted on another thread
as of 11/5/2014

Lilly cuffs 26
Lilly leg irons 29

LK D~D

weaseldandaw 22 Nov 2014

#44

I have one of each.

LK 23 Nov 2014

#45

Thanks DAN , As of NOV. -22-2014. IN PRIVATE COLLECTIONS

LILLY CUFFS 27
LILLY LEG IRONS 30

LK D~D

Anonymous 23 Nov 2014

#46

They are not so scarce as they say.

Anonymous 23 Nov 2014

#47

who's "THEY'

Anonymous 23 Nov 2014

#48

"They' are the people who say "if you don't have something good to say, don't say anything at all"

One of "Them'

ronspitz 23 Nov 2014

#49

As usual the dumb posts are starting. As far a rarity, the numbers posted here are not very large considering the quantity of other models we collect. Rarity is a relative term and I'm sure there are many more out there owned by those who do not read or post here. Even if there are a hundred or so it is a relatively small in number.

Ron

LK 24 Nov 2014

#50

Well said Ron, I would also like to say to Lar's that I misjudged your statement, it appears that they are common among collectors, but not to the normal public !
also not that it would have been impossible for one man (DR. LILLY) to have made them all, but does seem unlikely !
I was hoping the count might help answer some questions about LILLY IRONS, however it seems to have brought up more!

THE SEARCH FOR ANSWER'S CONTINUES !

LK D~D

ronspitz 24 Nov 2014

#51

LK, Your comments about possible answers to questions about Lilly is an on going mystery. Several of us have been doing some research and I hope to summarize our findings and post them in the near future.

Ron

LK 24 Nov 2014

#52

That sounds great, looking forward to seeing them, thanks Ron !

LK D~D

ronspitz 15 Dec 2014

#53

A pair of leg irons just sold on eBay. It has seven links on the chain. Don't think this one has been accounted for on your listing and I don't know who got it.

Ron

LK 17 Dec 2014

#54

thanks, do you have a item # for it ,would like to check them out?

LK D~D

LK 25 Aug 2015

#55

Any new NEWS on this thread !

LK D~D

LK 23 Aug 2017

#56

MOVE TO TOP

ronspitz 23 Aug 2017

#57

I plan to start another count of the irons at a later time. This time with more details on specific measurements.

Ron

Joseph Lauher 24 Aug 2017

#58

Fred Pittella just sent me some great pictures of his Lilly Iron collection. Great stuff!
Thanks Fred.

The long board is from an escape artist by the name Dagmar...the other board is the Lockman board and the Lilly with the H key has providence to Houdini.

Unresolved image reference ↗

thinker 25 Aug 2017

#59

why would an inventor use the initial of his first name for the symbol on a key instead of his last name! Doesn't cut it with me as logical.

Hubert H Humphrey 25 Aug 2017

#60

The key was made and sold by
[size=300]Harry Handcuff Houdini

The "H" is proper for his keys.[/size]

Steve Santini 25 Aug 2017

#61

The cast key with the "H" looks to me like it was originally a shut off key for gas valves or the like.

Steve Santini

thinker 25 Aug 2017

#62

agreed and the H is only a coincidence of the design, not intended

stinker 26 Aug 2017

#63

When Houdini ordered these keys, he asked for them to have the "H" in it.

reply to stinker 27 Aug 2017

#64

you're as stupidly funny as Trump. and Trump even makes the whole of N Korea laugh out loud.

- 27 Aug 2017

#65

North Korea is going to send a missile to your key making operation.

Plungerman 20 Oct 2017

#66

You can up the total of Lilly Irons by one. It also came with a key.

This key shares several aesthetic elements of the cuffs making me think of it as original. It is also made of the same metal and has the same wear. I have never seen another like it.

I got it from an ebay seller whose first Lilly cuff I missed. He wrote and told me he had a better one which he sold me for what the first had gone for. Some sellers are nice that way.

It may be of interest to Lilly Iron enthusiasts that a Lilly Iron King Breaker of Houdini's will be on auction on October 28th here in Chicago. I'm hoping some collectors will stop by to take a peek.

ronspitz 20 Oct 2017

#67

There are a few letters that a collector has from Houdini in regards to having the H key manufactured. I always thought it was a gas/radiator key and Houdini had them made with his initial, but according to these letters he did have them made.

I was going to include this information in the Lilly Research paper, however I was not able to obtain copies of the original letters.

Ron