The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Hi, new to the forum...

52 visible archived posts · 52 preserved total · topic ID 6687

copfish 10 Jan 2019

Hi, new to the forums... Started collecting handcuffs in the Army (US) in the mid-70's. Attached are some of the jewels of my collection.

k20-on-tec 10 Jan 2019

Hi welcome it tends to be abit quiet on here but is filled with a wealth of info and most questions can be answered happy collecting

Mark Lyons O--O Cuffs 10 Jan 2019

The Gotcha is prize.
Not an easy one to find but you did it.

grenchat 11 Jan 2019

Welcome to the forum!

It’s nice to have a firearms instructor onboard.

Happy Collecting!
Jason

94104 11 Jan 2019

Gotchas!!! Man i tried to get those when they first came out and never could. Ended up with some Tuff Kuffs instead around that time. Nice score

cofeta 11 Jan 2019

grenchat wrote: "It’s nice to have a firearms instructor onboard." yeah , not as dishonest as the cops.

grenchat 11 Jan 2019

94104 wrote: Gotchas!!! Man i tried to get those when they first came out and never could. Ended up with some Tuff Kuffs instead around that time. Nice score

Your Tuff Cuffs are highly coveted by many collectors and should be worth quite a bit more by now. The company got off on a bad foot when the first batch contained a weak spring. Later on the tension in the pivot would have to be lessened.

Here’s the original demo video from 2011:

94104 11 Jan 2019

grenchat wrote:
94104 wrote: Gotchas!!! Man i tried to get those when they first came out and never could. Ended up with some Tuff Kuffs instead around that time. Nice score
Your Tuff Cuffs are highly coveted by many collectors and should be worth quite a bit more by now. The company got off on a bad foot when the first batch contained a weak spring. Later on the tension in the pivot would have to be lessened.

Here’s the original demo video from 2011:

Click to expand...

O i agree but wish i could have gotten those gotcha's as well. Those intrest me more than the tuff kuffs only because of how they operate. I plan of keeping my tuff kuffs tho. I can tell you that they are one cuff you have to true be careful with. That one way swivel can get you twisted like a pretzel and that hurts. :¿

Unknown / guest 11 Jan 2019

cofeta wrote:
grenchat wrote: "It’s nice to have a firearms instructor onboard." yeah , not as dishonest as the cops.

I kinda always thought guns and cuffs went together. But over the years have found a lot of cops are not gun people. Which is just odd to me. Kinda like mechanic that dont like old cars. I collect both so......

copfish 11 Jan 2019

#10

cofeta wrote:
grenchat wrote: "It’s nice to have a firearms instructor onboard." yeah , not as dishonest as the cops.

Meh, you got bad apples in all the trades. From arborists to zoo keepers. I like to shoot and too cheap to buy my own ammo... So I started teaching. I retired in 2009 after 30 years with the state of Colorado.

grenchat 11 Jan 2019

#11

94104 wrote:
O i agree but wish i could have gotten those gotcha's as well. Those intrest me more than the tuff kuffs only because of how they operate. I plan of keeping my tuff kuffs tho. I can tell you that they are one cuff you have to true be careful with. That one way swivel can get you twisted like a pretzel and that hurts. :¿

Well I don’t own the Gotcha cuffs either, but do remember other collectors on the forum making pre-purchases in order to be placed on the waiting list for these. I like the way these have one round link connecting them. The lock/key seems very much like that of the Hiatt 1960 model, with the reverse bit configuration. Also, shimming vulnerability is not an issue since it features interlocking gears instead of the usual pawl and ratchet. One thing that I’m not too keen on is that these cuffs lack the ditched jaws and lock case detent as is also the case with standard Clejuso cuffs.

Today these cuffs are likewise scarce and highly coveted by collectors.
The handcuff business is indeed knotty (pun intended ).

Jason

djhalfdead 12 Jan 2019

#12

Welcome to the forum! You have a nice collection going! I do not have the Gotcha cuffs, either. They are a rarity. Im also a gun/cuff guy. No formal training, but many years in the fields of Illinois! LOL! I can hit the broad side of a barn...if it doesnt move. LOL! I think you will find a wealth of knowledge on these pages. Use the search feature to dig through the numerous posts on a particular cuff. If you can find what you seek, drop a question on here. You usually get a pretty speedy response. Enjoy!
-Richard Knip-

james.slips 12 Jan 2019

#13

Welcome to the forum!

MrAkela 29 Jan 2019

#14

Nice selection there. I am rather fond of the S&W 94's and 104's since I doubt in my entire life I will own a Gotcha. (Still Dreaming!) I bought a couple of Tuff Cuffs for way too much money over at Discount Handcuff Warehouse because I didn't think they would be around long. Seems to me the potential for injury is quite high.

copfish 30 Jan 2019

#15

We are becoming an empty nester and thinking about selling off the collection. Should I sell as a collection or part it out? Have about

djhalfdead 30 Jan 2019

#16

Its hard to sell as 1 collection. So many collectors, either already have most of them or just want 1 or 2, particular cuffs. Splinting them up and selling is more time consuming, but you would tend to make a better profit on them. Maybe, sell them in small lots? Like 4 or 5 cuffs in a lot? I would be interested in seeing a list of what you have. If i dont have them, i may be a buyer.
-Richard Knip-

Unknown / guest 30 Jan 2019

#17

Is that a Hinged Gotcha Cuff in the upper right hand corner? The one poking out the furthest. If it is, how much would you ask for that one? I am interested in it.
-Richard Knip-

copfish 31 Jan 2019

#18

Yes, they are the Gotchas with the small triangular key. I'm thinking about eBay, I'd like to sell the whole lot, but that might be hard...

djhalfdead 31 Jan 2019

#19

my email address is iambiohazard@yahoo.com Please, let me know what you would like to get for the Gotcha Cuffs, should you decide to sell them alone. I dont have need for the entire collection, as i have many of the pieces, already. But may be interested in a few pieces, should you decide to start selling them off. Thank you.
-Richard Knip-

94104 31 Jan 2019

#20

Hell, if the kids are leaving or have left, then dont sell the toys. Use them ;)

james.slips 01 Feb 2019

#21

PM me with what you'd be looking for to sell as a collection

copfish 02 Feb 2019

#22

profit 02 Feb 2019

#23

hang onto your gotcha and two peerless (bottom photo LH side) wait for better times before you sell.

MrAkela 02 Feb 2019

#24

I didn't notice before but those appear to be Peerless Model 400's. Very rare. They are not made of layers of steel but cast as 2 pieces, and as I understand it, were over tempered leading to them being vulnerable to breaking (saw a broken pair on eBay once). The entire line was supposed to have been recalled but we collectors know better...

oops 02 Feb 2019

#25

not over tempered at all. made of powered metal fused under high heat. It was brittle by methodology.

MrAkela 02 Feb 2019

#26

Thank you for the correction. So hard to get good information on this kind of subject.

djhalfdead 03 Feb 2019

#27

The Model 400 is kind of rare, but pops up on Ebay every few months. The last one sold for $75, about a week ago. It looked to be in really good shape. The S&W Model 94 would get around $100 to $125 for a set with a key. Could be worth a bit more, depending on which key cut it uses. The A.H.C. A-105 is worth about $100 to $125, also. And yes, i track and chart cuff sales on Ebay and a few other sites. LOL!
-Richard Knip-

k20-on-tec 04 Feb 2019

#28

Richard do you mind if i ask what other site apart from ebay you find cuffs on as i find it difficult to find them elsewhere really. Mind you i am in the uk maybe in us you have more selling pages for that kind of thing but if you know any that work internationally please let me know. Thanks

djhalfdead 04 Feb 2019

#29

I just use a couple of U.S. Based Craigslist type sites. But, after collecting for 25+ years, i have a lot of contacts, that keep their eyes open for me. Antique hunters and such. also keep watch on what things go for on here. Keep things listed.
-Richard Knip-

Mark Lyons O--O Cuffs 06 Feb 2019

#30

5 away from the Gotcha is a S&W 94.

What keyway is that one?

S&W 94 06 Feb 2019

#31

the keyway is round !

james.slips 06 Feb 2019

#32

Thats just wrong

djhalfdead 06 Feb 2019

#33

LMAO! He meant what key code does that Model 94 use! Im still laughing over here! There is at least one in every crowd.

grenchat 06 Feb 2019

#34

Greetings Copfish:

During the long course of their production, Smith & Wesson produced several restricted sale model 94 lock/key configurations exclusively for certain US based agencies and quite possibly for overseas sale as well. Since the restricted sale model 94s are less common, many collectors are willing to pay substantially more than they would for a model incorporating a common lock/key configuration, even though they are otherwise identical.

Best of luck with your sales....

Jason

djhalfdead 06 Feb 2019

#35

Here is a chart on the key cuts, from another post on the forum. think Ian McCol gets the credit for this one?
-Richard Knip-

Unknown / guest 06 Feb 2019

#36

Forgot to add the chart. LOL!
-RK-

Unknown / guest 06 Feb 2019

#37

Thanks for the heads up, that i forgot to add the chart, "RK!" Here it is.
-Richard Knip-

The picture has been deleted at the request of the artist and copyright owner.

MrAkela 07 Feb 2019

#38

I have seen the McCol scale before I just couldn't remember where I put my copy. It would seem that the standard US police issue was a type 'N' key since the several sets that I own all use that round key. Since we have strayed from the original subject of this post I would also like to say that my favorite feature on the Model 94 is that both cheek plates are made from the same piece of heavy steel wrapped around other pieces to form the lockcase. Strong!

Ian McColl 07 Feb 2019

#39

Please remove the image as this is not the original. This was modified by some arsehole from this forum and redistributed because he was too thick to read it as a locksmith could.

MrAkela 07 Feb 2019

#40

I remember that, many years ago. If I recall correctly it was reversed left to right so it represented the key rather than the lock. Confused things badly.
Apologies if my memory is faulty or has otherwise left the building.

Now, how about that great collection that copfish has?
Anybody out there have an internal diagram of how a Gotcha cuff works? Drawings I saw early on did not make any sense.

to MrAkela 07 Feb 2019

#41

post an email address and I can send you the information you seek. I don't post in public due to the unethical nature of some gutless people now.

MrAkela 07 Feb 2019

#42

I can be reached at akela@windstream.net

lauher 07 Feb 2019

#43

Ian
We all appreciate your work very much. If you could post the original drawing I would be most appreciative.
Joe

To Joe 08 Feb 2019

#44

Hi Joe, your site is great however some of the people here at this site do not appreciate or respect the work of others. They have poor ethics. My original drawing was produced in the format a professional locksmith would in educational setting. It was altered by some ignorant fool who didn't have the educational skill to understand and need to dumb it down like those who cannot understand science would prefer to read a bible.

The chart didn’t need to be altered to understand the different combinations as the keys have a letters stamped on them to denote the combination.

However some cuffs are marked via a letter next to the serial number and some are not. So if a person can pick the lock and look at the keyhole to see which tumblers have been picked, then the chart as I drew it works and it's academically correct in locksmithing methods for relating information.
I won't submit a copy as I don't want my works in a public forum were it can be abused. Thank you for the offer. I still have a few keys for sale and can be contacted at imccoll@dcsi.net.au
https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locks ... 435716704/

grenchat 08 Feb 2019

#45

Ian McColl wrote: Please remove the image as this is not the original. This was modified by some arsehole from this forum and redistributed because he was too thick to read it as a locksmith could.

Greetings Ian:

Yes, I do recall you posting a model 94 lock chart on the old forum perhaps 10 years ago now. Time sure flies. I’m disappointed to hear that someone altered your great work.

I also recall the first time I noticed the Ace/tubular lock here in the states (circa late ‘60s/ very early ‘70s). These were being installed on vending machines and replacing the older lock cylinders on public pay telephones. Soon thereafter some friends that were away on overseas vacations for extended durations had Ace locks installed on their residence doors to augment their mediocre security deadbolts. This was the first time I had seen one used in a residential setting, and I never would have guessed that this first generation of tubular locks would be so easily defeated without special tools.

In any case, I love the model 94 because it’s a Smith & Wesson and the only cuff that I know of that uses a tubular lock.

Jason

MrAkela 08 Feb 2019

#46

I saw the S&W Model 94 in a police supply catalog when I was 16 years old and wanted one bad! Gave up on the idea of ever owning one. Who knew I would own many of them today. One little problem with the tubular lock, unfortunate actually. The keyhole [ring?] on a Model 94 is just about the same size as an old school ball point pen barrel. I will stop there as it is a closely guarded secret proprietary to the Smith & Wesson Co.

Don't you go and tell anybody!

grenchat 08 Feb 2019

#47

MrAkela wrote: I saw the S&W Model 94 in a police supply catalog when I was 16 years old and wanted one bad! Gave up on the idea of ever owning one. Who knew I would own many of them today. One little problem with the tubular lock, unfortunate actually. The keyhole [ring?] on a Model 94 is just about the same size as an old school ball point pen barrel. I will stop there as it is a closely guarded secret proprietary to the Smith & Wesson Co.

Don't you go and tell anybody!

This and I know of one other very common innocuous appearing item that can be used to open these locks without tools. Decades later this vulnerability would cost the Kryptonite Co. plenty in warrantee payments as they unfortunately used the same diameter plug in their locks.

Someone should have warned them....

Jason

RyanVaene 08 Feb 2019

#48

This may be of interest to those following the discussion of tubular locks:

I recently came across a set of modern, shackle style handcuffs and leg irons made in China that use tubular locks. There are a fair amount of these new stainless steel items being produced mainly for the adult oriented market, but I feel the standards of production, finish, and quality is sufficient that they are more than novelties or x rated toys.

Here is picture of the tubular locked leg irons. They are being sold on eBay. My only complaint would be that the chain is removable. They also produce a very similar set with a core lock, and I just ordered a pair of handcuffs. When those arrive, I'll have the full set, I'll post a review with photos. I understand there is no historical value to cuffs such as these, but they are interesting nonetheless.

MrAkela 08 Feb 2019

#49

We likes... While I have some interest in historical value I am more interested in the 'gadget' factor, is it cool and unique.
One request, when you do your review could you show an unlocked view with the locking pawl. I have a set of locking Kub Turbo handcuffs, KB-136, where the cuff feels very solid on the outside however the pin the lock engages looks very weak.

grenchat 09 Feb 2019

#50

@ RyanVaene:

Nice shackles! Anything that uses a tubular key is way-cool in my opinion.

It appears that the chain is connected by way of a master link with a threaded sleeve as is often used on key fobs, carabiners, etc. If you contact Orchid of eRestraint, she can have her handcuff customizers weld any chain of your liking on these. Remember to mention that you’re from the handcuff forum.

https://www.erestraint.com/contactus.sc

@ MrAkela:

I’ve also seen these Kub Turbo Cuffs on the the bay, and they do look cool! I won an auction for the Kub Hamburg 8s when they were introduced several years ago. The heavily nickel plated brass construction rates 2 thumb(cuff)s up in my opinion, though I’ve never actually locked them on anyone. Also, the Kub Sheffield Darbies look like they’d present a formidable challenge to an escape artist. I kind of wish they’d offer more models in brass, though.

Please let us know if you’ve discovered a weak locking pin so we know which model(s) not to buy.

Jason

Mo's Restraints Museum 20 Mar 2019

#51

copfish wrote:We are becoming an empty nester and thinking about selling off the collection. Should I sell as a collection or part it out? Have about

If you want to sell them all, send me a message I'm interesting by those :)

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copfish 21 Mar 2019

#52

Thank you, I’ve sold the lot. Still have some things that have surfaced from various boxes and bags.

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