Let's Go!

Alright ladies and gentlemen! Almost all of us are stuck in the house, during this pandemic. If you are like me, you are probably bored and there is nothing good on TV. So....why dont we try to breathe some life back into the forum! Let's get questions and topics running and see how long we can keep them going. No matter who you are or how long you have been collecting, there is always something more to learn about cuffs. Im going to start out with sharing one of my recent purchases. I grabbed this nice pair of Lovell handcuffs, late night on Ebay, one night. I gave around $60 for them, but they didnt have a key. Made a call to Ian McColl and he was able to set me up with a perfectly working key! Everything functions on the cuffs as they should. Very happy to have found this one to mark off of my list!
-Richard Knip-

$60.00!!!! Are you kidding? I’d gladly give $65.

I guess I better pay more attention.

Brad


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I'll give $70.00

Deals like this are few and far between. I was able to grab this one about 4 minutes after it was posted. I spend a lot of time on the computer, chasing leads and looking for bargains. I have gotten quite good at it, over the years. Ebay hasnt seen a Lovell cuff in some time. But, recently, two Lovell cuffs and a Lovell leg iron passed thru. I was 2nd highest bidder for the leg irons.
-Richard Knip-

They are nice cuffs! I agree with you, being more active on the forum is a great way to keep busy while stuck inside. I will start putting together a post of my own.
As far as these, they look to me a bit similar in style to the Bean Patrolman cuffs, particularly in regards to the clevis/swivel, the lock case, single chain link, and the thin double bitted key. I wonder if they are from a similar time period?

According to the handcuff gallery on the main page, the Bean Patrol is 1880s, and the Lovell cuff is 1890s (?). There is no doubt that Bean was a huge influence on Lovell's design. I will have to read up on it, but im willing to bet that Bean was making them for Lovell.  I will look into that, unless someone else can confirm it, before it find the answer.
-Richard Knip-

From going through the Bean page on the main forum page, It appears that Lovell did make their own cuffs. They were heavily patterned after the Bean Patrolman, as we know, but are considered to be higher quality than their Bean made counterparts. Lovell was a small arms manufacturing company.
-Richard Knip-

As I understand, IJ was manufacturing the Bean and for whatever reason Bean switched over Lovell to make them.

Confusing part is IJ repatented them in 84 and at some point continued to make them- with or without Bean’s involvement I don’t know - until some point in time when IJ then just made their own version with the barrel key (aka post key).

Somewhere in all this John Lovell started making them on his own with his own rotating shield key way and flat key.

All those New England gunmakers were pretty good at stepping on each other’s toes in the 1800s.

In my opinion, whatever that’s worth, the Lovells are the most desirable and most valuable, with the Bean barrel key a hot second. The 82 marked Beans in third and the 82/84 Beans least. Any marked Iver Johnson or John Lovell should add a premium (they are out there). If Gordon’s out there I hope he jumps in on this. He’s told me I’m full of crap more than once.

They are all the same cuff except for the keys.

Ed Bean never made anything himself, everything he designed, patented and sold was made by one of the gunmakers or John J Tower.

Congratulations, Richard, you made a weeks salary on that one.

So, would you take $85?


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Thank you for the information as well as the insight! Very interesting for Bean to have not actually made anything, but is so well known in the restraint/police supply world. I have checked over my Iver Johnson and My Lovell and neither have markings on them, saying what model or who made them, etc. That means, now I have to find marked sets to add to the collection! LOL! Thank you for the offer on the cuffs, but these are not for sale. They have been entered in the collection catalog and will be there until replaced or i pass away. If i find a cuff, brand new in the box, then im free to strike that one out of the want list and close that cuff as a permanent part of my collection. Until then, if i find one in better shape than mine, then I replace mine and sell off the older one. I usually list on Ebay. Any money i make, goes right back into buying another cuff! I like to say, im at the point of where hobby meets obsession! LOL!

-Richard Knip-

First off just wanted to give Richard a shout out for getting our minds off this BS in the world. I had to post my favorite cuffs. The marlin 1910 is my favorite cuff by far. This pair is in excellent condition, I got them from a long time collector. They are not polished. Does anyone have a 1910 that is polished? I'd love to see there beauty. I have to agree with Lars, the marlin handcuff is the most beautiful US cuff ever made. Fine fashion as he says. I just have to say thank you to all the pholks out there who have been a wealth of information on cuffs. I find locks fascinating, someone brought a chrome 300 peerless to first grade when I was kid and I've been hooked ever since .
Gav

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I appreciate your thanks! We have a huge treasure trove of knowledge within these boards. I dont want to lose that. These pages were a lot more active back in the day. We have lost a few members who contributed a lot to the pages. But, we still have guys here that arent as active, but do have knowledge to share. I want to try to "stoke the fires", so to say. See what live we can bring back into here! A lot of new cuffs have come out through the years. Thats why i am encouraging people to open up new topics. Any questions you have about a cuff or a cuff company, make a topic for that! Someone here, likely knows the answers. Or, maybe it will spark a new debate. I know that this forum became plagued with "anon" posters who like to get down right nasty at times. "Trolls", as the internet calls them. But, thats the way the world works, these days. We cant let them, shut down what has taken people a long time to create. I owe a huge thank you to Joe Lauher, for putting up with all of this through the years and maintaining this place, so we care get together and share cuffs and information. Thank you to all, how made this forum and kept it going through the years!

Now, onto the 1910 Bottlenecks. I think mine may have been chrome at some point in their life? But, its hard to tell. They may also have just been a polished metal. I have personally polished cuffs in the past that were bare metal and they came out looking almost chrome. But, i found the downfall to be keeping them shiny and clean. They lose their luster after a bit and have to be re-polished.  Anyone else have evidence of a chrome 1910 Bottleneck handcuff out there?

-Richard Knip-

I agree that the Marlin is the most beautiful handcuff.  Here is the most beautiful nipper, a Lutz, Royce, Trenor & Chadwick. 
It was patented in 1870, the second US patented nipper.  The Phillips nipper was the first.
Joe

A couple of Lovells from the collection

and a Phillips 1st model

Richard your 1910s are definitely polished chrome. Were all the 1879 1st models the same polished as well? I unfortunately dont have a first model.
Gav

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Guys

Chrome plating was not invented until 1924. Prior to that there was nickel plating and that's what we see on older cuffs. 

Matt

Matt3114 wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2020

Guys

Chrome plating was not invented until 1924. Prior to that there was nickel plating and that's what we see on older cuffs. 

Matt

you beat me to it.

Very Good Point, Matt and Ian! I had completely forgotten about that detail. So, yes they would have been nickel plated. This is my first model Marlin Bottleneck. They also look to be nickel plated.
-Richard Knip-

Isn't that photo the smaller diameter 1910 model? and not what is written on the tag?

The photo appears to be of the smaller size or standard lock case as opposed to the “fat” version.

Spencer

Thank you, Ian and Spencer. I have had this one for a very long time. II didnt know my way around the internet and didnt have as many books as i do now. The tag is incorrect and now that I see it, i will get it updated to the correct information. The chain link is still the Model one, or not so in this case, since it would be newer than the Model 2 with the swivel?
-Richard Knip-

Well, here is a bit of a snag for you. Seems I no longer have the cuff in the last pic, that is in question? I must have sold that one at some point and replaced it with a "fat" version of the Marlin Bottleneck. This one is laying in the spot where the other one goes and has the same tag number as the cuff in the last pic. LOL! I may need to go over my first 400 or so cuffs to read tag, look at info and compare pics to what i have on the shelves! That sounds like fun. LOL!
-Richard Knip-

Nevermind. I guess i dont have the earliest version "fat" lock case, yet. I will get those re-tagged and back in place. Looking at different sized photos threw me for a minute. Comparing them side by side on my desk, shows they are the same measurements. I think I have it figured out now. I hope. LOL!
-Richard Knip-

Richard

Marlin’s first model had three links as a chain but the second production run featured the barrel swivel.

Spencer

I knew that. I was confused on the size of the lock case for the 3 link chain models. I didnt realize they did a 3rd run of them starting in 1910 with the more common sized lack casing. Which, i guess would technically make these a model 3, then.  Although I have never heard the name Model 3 ever given to a Bottleneck handcuff?
-Richard Knip-

if you ran out of cuffs to get on your list, now you can add the fat bottleneck. I prefer the slim to the fat, bottleneck ( and anything else that comes in either) 

 First large bottle Marlins had 2 versions of the round linkage, one large and the more common small linkage.
I have seen another Marlin with the big linkage. This is not a one of a kind. The platting is extremely good, it
was sold to me as a salesman sample.

Seems there is a lot more to Marlin Daley's line, than I originally thought! Thank you to everyone on the corrections, additions and updates! Great looking cuffs, Gordon!
-Richard Knip-

As the question about plated (nickel) Marlin was brought up, there were both plated and bare metal.
I have attached photos for comparison.  The plated is more shiny even though the bare metal is shiny too.
The upper set is plated and lower bare metal.

I also have the "thick bottle" model in palted version.

Lars

The very first Marlin had its stamping on the front of the lock case by the key hole.
A ring swivel on a swivel model exists.  I have seen other examples of these, so it is not a one of a kind.
Used for attaching on a transportation chain or similar.
mark O--O