Off The Cuff time!

Here’s this week’s episode!
(Mr. Bean wants to get inta the act!)




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Arioch, 

Thanks for another OTC video, great work as always...Quick question, you mentioned an OTC T Shirt in one of your other videos.  How can I get one, do you have a link I can purchase online?  Let me know.

Thanks,
Kris

Love your videos
Keep up the good work.
I do not know of any handcuff company making neck collars.
I have a collar that may be Tibetan.
I will post a pic later + a cool collar pic from when I visited Belgium.

Arioch......That Palmer neck collar is a real gem and quite possibly a unique one, you just don’t come across legit neck collars every day.

Spencer

Alex Nichols and I in Belgium

read the patent text before posting, the screw is not for 'double locking" ! stop this type of misinformation, it is only going to be repeated by others who also don't care to be well informed on the subject.

^^^Hi Ian!  Same exact comment you made to me, when I made the mistake of saying double lock about the Palmer screw on my cuffs. Why the need to hide as "misinformation?" Be a man and put your name to your comments.
-Richard Knip-

Hi Richard, I wasn't logged in at the time, and it is misinformation, you know the fake news stuff you Jesus loving Republicians love to spread.

regards 
Ian
and Andy, it is NOT a  pacifier,  = A pacifier is a rubber, plastic, or silicone nipple substitute given to an infant to suckle upon between feedings to quiet its distress by satisfying the need to suck when it does not need to eat. Pacifiers normally have three parts, an elongated teat, a mouth shield, and a handle.

IAN L MCCOLL wrote:Hi Richard, I wasn't logged in at the time, and it is misinformation, you know the fake news stuff you Jesus loving Republicians love to spread.

regards 
Ian
and Andy, it is NOT a  pacifier,  = A pacifier is a rubber, plastic, or silicone nipple substitute given to an infant to suckle upon between feedings to quiet its distress by satisfying the need to suck when it does not need to eat. Pacifiers normally have three parts, an elongated teat, a mouth shield, and a handle.

I just said that because it looks like the pacifier my daughter used to have when she was an infant


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Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2021

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You never said in the video, "the end of the chain looked like a pacifer a kid would have."  
You just directly referred to it as pacifier and then you went on to say  "you looked thru boxes of old chain for a pacifer on them ! "

The Palmer neck collar doesn't appear factory made, it is made from pieces of a leg iron rivited to the ends of a longer section (made to look Palmer"ish" by the slots.) A more accurate comment would be 'we don't know'.  

If your videos are supposed to be educational, they are not, you are muddying the water, others will repeat these errors going forth because they also know no better, or care.
 

Ian wrote:

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2021

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You never said in the video, "the end of the chain looked like a pacifer a kid would have."  
You just directly referred to it as pacifier and then you went on to say  "you looked thru boxes of old chain for a pacifer on them ! "

The Palmer neck collar doesn't appear factory made, it is made from pieces of a leg iron rivited to the ends of a longer section (made to look Palmer"ish" by the slots.) A more accurate comment would be 'we don't know'.  

If your videos are supposed to be educational, they are not, you are muddying the water, others will repeat these errors going forth because they also know no better, or care.
 

Click to expand...

According to John Bushey who I bought the neck collar from, it was factory made.


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Fantasy pieces are just that.
Does anyone have any good photos of the Hiatt made and advertised plug 8 n----r collars?
John Bushey had a Darby style neck collar but I never saw it close up to check it- a bit like the chrome CUB ones.

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

According to John Bushey who I bought the neck collar from, it was factory made.


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I used to speak to John Bushey every 2nd weekend, we discussed this Palmer collar. John agreed with me that it was made from parts. He said that others suggested it was factory made, John  was skeptical and thought that if they were to produce a neck collar , they would have cast it like all the other pieces and not cut and shunt parts.  And if you were referencing John as Mr B or Mr Bean ( I couldn't work it out) I think it's disrespectful.

BTW, did you ever go back to your first video and correct the title from SLOTZ to STOTZ?

  My 2 cents
 I have 2 odd ball Palmers, pictures were posted 5/24,4 and 5/15,1. A collector emailed me and said that they were 
reproductions, 1920s vintage. I tend to agree. Looking at the pics of the neck collar in question, I think that it is
 of the same manufacturer as my 2 Palmers(?). Maybe some day we can compare them.

PaulJDavies wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

Fantasy pieces are just that.
Does anyone have any good photos of the Hiatt made and advertised plug 8 n----r collars?
John Bushey had a Darby style neck collar but I never saw it close up to check it- a bit like the chrome CUB ones.

I made darby style neck collars for many years, tapered lock tube, angled end and hinge (characteristic of English darbies) The last thing I made was a Plug eight neck collar for John Bushey in 2011. It was shown to another collector who took it as authentic. (who I think had seen an original , if my memory serves me well) so Hiatt plug neck collars are out there.

So glad I couldn't buy the Darby collar then. But I'd love to find a real plug 8 collar.

PaulJDavies wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

So glad I couldn't buy the Darby collar then. But I'd love to find a real plug 8 collar.

Nothing wrong with my items. Recently saw a photo of a major collector's display. I asked him why he had one of my items, he said he didn't. All originals as he didn't collect repros. I offer him information to identify the piece and he replied, " yes it was one one mine". The USA seller didn't tell the truth when he bought it. (in money we trust) LOL

IAN L MCCOLL wrote:

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

According to John Bushey who I bought the neck collar from, it was factory made.


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I used to speak to John Bushey every 2nd weekend, we discussed this Palmer collar. John agreed with me that it was made from parts. He said that others suggested it was factory made, John  was skeptical and thought that if they were to produce a neck collar , they would have cast it like all the other pieces and not cut and shunt parts.  And if you were referencing John as Mr B or Mr Bean ( I couldn't work it out) I think it's disrespectful.

BTW, did you ever go back to your first video and correct the title from SLOTZ to STOTZ?

Click to expand...

Mr. Bean is my puppy. I know you don’t get much television down there but he’s named after the British comedian Rowan Atkinson, who, (though this statement might cause some MAJOR controversy), is probably best known for his character “Mr. Bean”, a lovable Everyman who gets into one comedic mishap after another. I say “controversial” because I realize that there are undoubtedly those among you who prefer The Black Adder, and heated debates will surely follow. Personally, I enjoy both of theses characters, but the dog was already named when I got him.


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Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

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Why do you wish to show your supreme ignorance so publically?

IAN L MCCOLL wrote:

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

According to John Bushey who I bought the neck collar from, it was factory made.


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I used to speak to John Bushey every 2nd weekend, we discussed this Palmer collar. John agreed with me that it was made from parts. He said that others suggested it was factory made, John  was skeptical and thought that if they were to produce a neck collar , they would have cast it like all the other pieces and not cut and shunt parts.  And if you were referencing John as Mr B or Mr Bean ( I couldn't work it out) I think it's disrespectful.

BTW, did you ever go back to your first video and correct the title from SLOTZ to STOTZ?

Click to expand...

When we were sitting together at the lock show, he told me he thought it was factory, meaning it was put together at the factory by people who actually made PALMER cuffs with PALMER parts. We discussed why it was made, but obviously we were just theorizing because the collar didn’t come with a receipt or any other paperwork. When you make a copy of a Palmer cuff, even if you are using original parts, it is not factory made because you are not connected with that company whatsoever. If a Hiatt employee in 1901 made a unique item during his lunch break using factory parts and factory equipment, that item was factory made. That doesn’t mean it was meant for the general public or was put on sale or in any of their catalogs. But that piece came out of their factory where it was originally made.


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Ian McColl wrote:

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

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Why do you wish to show your supreme ignorance so publically?

Because no one can appreciate it when I do it privately


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Ian McColl wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

PaulJDavies wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

So glad I couldn't buy the Darby collar then. But I'd love to find a real plug 8 collar.

Nothing wrong with my items. Recently saw a photo of a major collector's display. I asked him why he had one of my items, he said he didn't. All originals as he didn't collect repros. I offer him information to identify the piece and he replied, " yes it was one one mine". The USA seller didn't tell the truth when he bought it. (in money we trust) LOL

Absolutely nothing wrong with Ian's items. They are very well made. 
Until now I did not know the old looking darby collar was one of Ian's. John did not let on either as he sat at my table and I expressed an interest. I guess I was being tested and have been searching for a unicorn.

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

IAN L MCCOLL wrote:

Ariochmagician wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

According to John Bushey who I bought the neck collar from, it was factory made.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used to speak to John Bushey every 2nd weekend, we discussed this Palmer collar. John agreed with me that it was made from parts. He said that others suggested it was factory made, John  was skeptical and thought that if they were to produce a neck collar , they would have cast it like all the other pieces and not cut and shunt parts.  And if you were referencing John as Mr B or Mr Bean ( I couldn't work it out) I think it's disrespectful.

BTW, did you ever go back to your first video and correct the title from SLOTZ to STOTZ?

When we were sitting together at the lock show, he told me he thought it was factory, meaning it was put together at the factory by people who actually made PALMER cuffs with PALMER parts. We discussed why it was made, but obviously we were just theorizing because  the collar didn’t come with a receipt or any other paperwork. When you make a copy of a Palmer cuff, even if you are using original parts, it is not factory made because you are not connected with that company whatsoever. If a Hiatt employee in 1901 made a unique item during his lunch break using factory parts and factory equipment, that item was factory made. That doesn’t mean it was meant for the general public or was put on sale or in any of their catalogs. But that piece came out of their factory where it was originally made.


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Click to expand...

My comment on your ignorance was based on the comment of " I know you don’t get much television down there" What a stupid comment ! 
We here in Australian have been regaled with the joys of laughter for four years with seeing the entertaining foolery of Mr Trump. Trump's lack of action on Covid and his attempt at Christian Sharia rule over the country. SO YES WE GET TV here.  

Nice try with "factory made'  I don't see cups of coffee being sold on Ebay as original Rolls Royce bervages, Factory made with coffee, cups, and spoons supplied and assembled in house at Rolls Royce head quarters. . Just stupid speculation based on nothing.  Using your method of deduction, the first 50 of the repros I made would and should be called Orb Lock Company, and Melbourne Locksmiths made handcuff then? As they were made during lunch breaks with company drill presses , Linshalls, files etc.

For all you or anyone else knows, they could have been made by a Jimmy Collins type person who sold them on or produced commissioned works for escape artist of the time. The patina of the cuff suggests that they were made a long while back.  

Try to use your videos to educate and be accurate.

Just had to!

Andrew, have you had enough time to read the Palmer Patent so you can redo your video to make it factual?  BTW, I have had others email me to say they had discussions with John Bushey re the neck collar and all confirm John never said factory made but noted in was made from some original parts. 

Only ever seen one Neck Collar marked Hiatt, however, attached photo of the Double Neck Collar that Hiatt advertised,

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Feb 01, 2021

^^^ Be a man and put your name to your comments.
-Richard Knip-

Why so hostile Richard? You don't chastise any others like.  No greater hate, than a Christian's love , hey Richard !

Ian. No hate. Just asking those who choose to hide their childish and often rude comments as "anonymous", to step up and start signing their name to their words. Its awfully strange that the anonymous posts, against comments I have made on other threads lately, seem to have an anti religion theme to them. The "misinformation" post that was made on this thread, almost exactly echoed the words you once emailed to me, in reference to the same subject. There is zero need for anonymity in this forum. We all know each other here and we all speak openly. Joe Lauher has done a lot through the years to give us this forum to express our knowledge, ideas, opinions and such as related to restraints the the history there of. Using an anonymous log on to hide one's identity while making a coward's comment, is disrespectful to Joe and his work. None of us are "experts" when it comes to cuffs. Some, do know more than others, but no one knows everything there is to know. Its just an impossibility. Sharing knowledge here is a key component, to making this forum work and thrive. Now, not everyone is going to get it correct 100% of the time. Choosing how to approach the individual who has made the mistake to offer your knowledge in correction to the wrong information given, says a lot about who you are as a person. Does one choose to step forward and simply "correct" the misinformation by offering up what knowledge they have or does one start this endeavor with terms like "idiot" or "you dont know what you are talking about?" Do they take the role as teacher or do hey feel they need to teach while showing their dominance and belittling the subject being taught? There is zero need to treat anyone on this board as a lesser to oneself. None of us, sit atop a golden tower and look down upon any of the others. I have followed your comments for many years, before even coming here. The Magic Cafe boards are a perfect example at the way you treat others when you decide to speak out. The boards on FB as well. Ive seen many times where people refer to you as "rude" and other descriptive words. They are not wrong. Your approach to a problem, is often very rude. I cant say for sure that how everyone in your country does things, but i can tell you in the universal world of friendship and respect for each other, that is not the way to conduct one's self.

Aroich takes it upon himself to make this videos to help others who are in this hobby or may get into this hobby at some point. Maybe, not everything he says in his videos will pan out to be 100% true. But, i feel assured that he isnt doing it to spread false information on purpose. He is sharing the knowledge as he understands it, as it was presented to him or as he has read it somewhere else. I make plenty of mistakes as well. We all do. To err is human. I try to correct my mistakes as i find them or they are pointed out to me, in hopes of not making that same mistake again, in the future. The "edit" option that was recently opened up to us on this forum is a great tool to have! I thank Joe for giving us that option to use, now.  We all have copies of books in our libraries that also have some false information in them. It happens. As new evidence comes to light or a new document is found, things do change in history from time to time. No one here can say for sure what John told Arioch about the Palmer collar? He knows and John knows. I can say with my own convos I had with John, that he was very proud of the Palmer Collar that he had. Said it was the only one known to exist. And that very well could be true. He also showed me pics of the Bean Collar he had. We know that Bean did produce those as they had advertisements for them. Collars definitely are not the accepted norm in the restraint world. Any collar that you get in your collection is likely going to gather some attention and raise a few eyebrows. Maybe Arioch's collar was made at the factory as a test of some sort, maybe it wasnt? Thats a questioned that will never be proven with 100% certainty. Until documents arise, proving otherwise, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and idea of the origins of said collar. Not that it really matters, anyway. We are all making "educated" guesses about the collar, based on our own knowledge and experience. I dont see where Arioch has done anything wrong here? I for one, appreciate the work he puts into each and everyone of his videos! Most of the videos he does, I already have the cuffs he shows. But, there is always more out there to learn and I have learned many things with the info he has shared with us. Politely correcting him or offering up the reason why you believe that it wasnt factory made, would have been the right road to take in this case.

Now, lastly. I decided, that  I wasnt willing to hide who I am to you or to anyone anymore. I am religious. Bottom line. I believe in the Lord and I know he died for our sins. I believe there is life after this life and i look forward to standing in front of God, one day. I was very blessed to have been given a second chance at life, by receiving the gift of a kidney and a pancreas from a deceased donor. You have been anti-religion, as long as I have known you. And I have respected that. Did not force my religious beliefs on you and didnt flood you with blessings and prayers, etc. However, you choose to use my religion as a weapon, against me. Even going so far as sending me an invite to join the Australian Atheists page on FB. I dont understand why you feel that you have to belittle those who do believe in religion? Have I hurt you in anyway with my religious beliefs? Have I thrown them at you? The only reason, i stopped emailing with you is because you chose to continue to use American Politics as jokes against me in our emails. I told you I did not appreciate that. I wouldnt comment on them and change the subject in return. You knew what you were doing and I just let you do it. When I had enough, i simply walked away. I have not bothered you, since. You and I have had so many great conversations, via emails, that covered all sorts of topics. From Volcanoes to hand grenades. I learned a lot in convos we shared. I quite enjoyed those convos as well. But, you always, someway, found the need to poke back at me, for something you didnt like about me or something I chose to follow that you do not approve of. Live and let live. Neither of us gained anything from you doing so. When one makes an accusation of another's wrong doings, the person making the claim, usually knows more than the other one gives them credit for.  One thing you should study up on with computers and related technologies, is how to trace the location that a comment was made from, when it comes to standard message board formats. IP addresses are key. You can post under any identity you chose, but your IP address will always call you out, unless you use some outside technology or a special software program to scramble or relocate your IP address. IP addresses do not lie. Or, is that just "misinformation?"
-Richard Knip-

Netiquette is about relationships and how people behave online. All the rules go out the window if you do not have the normal filters involved with social interaction. While I am not here to defend Ian, I know Ian well enough and I believe I understand why his behaviour is different to others. It cannot change. He will insult me 'out of the blue' and be friendly in the next sentence. It no longer bothers me. His higher intellect triggers a full response to false or misleading claims or beliefs - without filters. Without your understanding, you'll just get your "knickers in a knot'. It is hard to chill when the daily news says otherwise but try we must! 
Paul