McKenzie Mitts did not sell on eBay

Greetings,

We are helping liquidate the collection George Stewart.  A long time friend and frequent trading partner of Stan Willis.  We have had decent luck with eBay.  For the past few months we have offered a nice set of McKenzie Mitts with no luck.  Trouble is George told his son that they were worth $30,000.

We were able to convince him to let us list them at $6,000 and then relist them at $5,000.  Now that they are still unsold and closed he wants them back.  My question for the group: is there any interest in these?  He may be willing to accept a straight up cash offer that saves listing fees.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184770620796  

George just has to understand that the handcuff market's pricing is nothing near what it used to be. Back in the mid 2000s up until about 2013, the prices were still strong. But, the pricing has drastically dropped off since then. Mitts have never been worth 30k. That is just way over the rainbow as far as pricing goes. 3k-4k is closer to what they would be worth now. The belly chain with the mitts he is selling is not the original belly chain for the mitts. The chain will add nothing to its value. To be an original chain, the chain would be the exact same as the chain used on the mitts locking mechanism. George has to face the fact, as we all have, that the cuffs we collected over the years, have lost value in many cases. While the McKenzie Mitts do remain a collectable and sought after piece, they just are not worth as much as they once were. Included is a picture from Ebay auctions of the 3 sets of mitts that sold in 2017. This shows the downward trend for restraint prices in the market through the years.

Also with people out of work and struggling with money due to COVID, a lot of collectors do not have the disposable income they once had. One collector, whom you hold a shipping license with, is Aaron in the U.K. Approach him with a reasonable price and he may buy them. He is currently in the market for a set of McKenzie Mitts, but he really wants a set that is nickel plated instead of factory blued. Its worth a shot tho. Good luck on the sale!

-Richard knip-

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  George Stewart has passed and his son is working with us to sell the collection.  My advice was to start an auction at $3,000 and hope for the best.

He is thinking that now is not the time to get the best price.  The mitts don't eat much and take up very little space.  We were thinking that this might be the last days of a soaring stock market and should take what we can before the next crash.

The only thing that bothers me about your post is that you know about an export license we hold.  My guess is that he is a friend of yours? :)

Thanks again, I will be printing and sharing your post with the son.

eRestraints

Yes, Aaron is a good friend of mine. I also supply cuffs for him to display at the Doncaster Restraint Museum in the U.K. The idea of listing at 3K and taking bids will be closer to reality for what these will pull in pricing. Im sure you would get a few takers on those bids. Although, an arranged private sale will save you a lot in fees, of course. There really is no time to "get the best price." As our older collectors pass away, the newer generations arent into antiques as much as the older guys are. We dont have as many younger collectors who are looking to buy the old stuff. So the demand in the market is going down as is the value of our collections. I dont see the pricing in the market going up until we can get another age of collectors interested in buying things. Im 45 and one of the "younger" in collecting. I know we do have a handful here, younger than me. I would love to have a set of mitts, but too many expenditures to take the plunge right now.
-Richard Knip-

I have another pair for sale in better condition at a similar price so you can show your friend this. 
As far as financial advice goes, when the Stock Market tanks, gold and good collectables become options IMHO. Uncertainty due to Covid is an issue, but only temporary. 
Paul

What is your asking price for this nickel set with chain, Paul?
-Richard Knip-

Richard is spot on.
I'm interested and would like to add a pair to my collection, but, $5k/$6k is as mentioned by Richard is high, $3k is the current market is a stretch,. I'm interested in the older stuff, but it's not a 'have to have' for me, so, tend not to compete for it, and hence doesn't drive up prices. I typically do not see cuffs as an investment, unfortunately, I think many collectors do.

Quality items retain their value and I would not compare these to a Japanned pair or prices from 2017. I have a reserve in mind but will let the market determine the value. If that value does not persuade me to sell them then they will remain in pride of place. They will not appear on eBay as there are people and places I will not sell to.

The highest prices that I ever saw for McKenzie Mitts were in the neighborhood of $12,500 and there was a 10-15% buyers fee on top of this.

There were two sets sold at the Radner/Houdini auction in Vegas a decade ago.
McKenzies were patented the same year that Houdini died so it is doubtful that Houdini had actually owned them.
As he died at the end of October, the possibility exists that these were among the latest items that he added to his collection, IF they were in his possession.

The $30K figure is WAAAAY out of line!

PS, there, I made a contribution as a repulsive, nicotine addicted, Bi-Polar, foul mouthed cretin wrote to me and said that I never have

I paid around $5200 for my set.  The reason was that they were from the son of the Deputy Sheriff's who retrieved them when the Sheriff tossed them in the local dump.  I was able to research the entire history and made a trip to the town, visited the jail and local Court House to review the archived paperwork.  Also I got to talk with the son.   It was a lot of fun and everyone was helpful.  I documented all I could and the next owner will have the documentation.  

Thanks to those who have contacted me. I will be in touch but it may take some time for others to see this post as many are not regular viewers.
Just to be clear - the belly chain and key are NOT original and do not have to be included in the sale.

Paul Davies wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

Quality items retain their value and I would not compare these to a Japanned pair or prices from 2017. I have a reserve in mind but will let the market determine the value. If that value does not persuade me to sell them then they will remain in pride of place. They will not appear on eBay as there are people and places I will not sell to.

Paul I cannot PM you.  Could you shoot me an email at [email protected] please?

Paul Davies wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

Quality items retain their value and I would not compare these to a Japanned pair or prices from 2017. I have a reserve in mind but will let the market determine the value. If that value does not persuade me to sell them then they will remain in pride of place. They will not appear on eBay as there are people and places I will not sell to.

I certainly agree Paul! I also believe that quality items will retain the value much better than "bulk items". There will always be people interested in quality items and these people doesn't nessesarily need to be traditional restraints collectors. Some of the buyers are interested in history and they are willing to to pay for a nice addtion to their collection.

Still, I've never bought a single item due to some kind of investment. I have sometimes paid top dollars just to acquire something I really wanted. No matter of future value. I consider myself being a trustee  of history and I'm willing to pay for that.

Lars

An excellent point re, historical outside of handcuff collecting. Certainly here in the US, the Civil War Era collectors are more abundant and seem to have deeper pockets and that drives up prices... and I almost never bid on Civil War Era stuff now, it often ends up in a bidding war. I apologize, I did not mean to kick off the old vs new discussion again, it's all in the taste, I have some nice 'old' pieces in my collection that I appreciate just as much (probably more) than the latest new tech. My point was simply that unfortunately this person appeared to truly believe they had made a fantastic investment that had appreciated to $30k , and their legacy is now probably quite disappointed, and who knows, with covid, they may really have been needing that money.

I don't think George Stewart bought them as an investment, few of us do. The problem is, George told his son they were worth a fortune. Having our wives or family sell off our collection is an issue may will all face. Hopefully they wont end up in a dump bin if we go prematurely!

PaulJDavies wrote: ↑

Apr 25, 2021

I don't think George Stewart bought them as an investment, few of us do. The problem is, George told his son they were worth a fortune. Having our wives or family sell off our collection is an issue may will all face. Hopefully they wont end up in a dump bin if we go prematurely!

Agree, I have left a little note with my 'gems' for my wife to contact two fellow collectors (both of whom are on this forum) of whom I trust to make a reasonable offer. She'll just want to be rid of them, tis the way it is, and I will no longer care... although... I may have the houdini cuffs buried with me... cos y'know, he's coming back... (joke).