JG 1952 darby /|\ any info on these?

Hi.

I tried the search but it's bugging out again and not working. I won these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224611013266

They have no key, but ironically I bought a military key with that same KE number shown on the image of the cuffs, so I am hoping they will be functional and just need a bit of lubricating and then my key should work in them. Here's a picture of the key I have:



Is JG a brand? Are they not Hiatt? I do not know anything about them and the search system is not working for me. I'd appreciate any insight?

We just discussed the brand JG in a post a few days ago made by Ron J. This post. Here i go again anyone ever see one of these or kn  Yes, JG is the brand name. But, we do not really know who exactly made them? My gut feeling is that they could have been made by Reuben Craddock & Sons (R.C.S.) who also made very similar false backstrap darbys around the same time. But, that is purely an educated guess on my part. I have a set that have the same key number as yours. I have also seen several sold that also have that key number. I bet your key will work with a cuff that has a matching stamp. I will be curious to know, when you get the cuffs, if that is the case. Congratulations on a great deal on the cuffs!
-Richard Knip-

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Sep 22, 2021

We just discussed the brand JG in a post a few days ago made by Ron J. This post. Here i go again anyone ever see one of these or kn  Yes, JG is the brand name. But, we do not really know who exactly made them? My gut feeling is that they could have been made by Reuben Craddock & Sons (R.C.S.) who also made very similar false backstrap darbys around the same time. But, that is purely an educated guess on my part. I have a set that have the same key number as yours. I have also seen several sold that also have that key number. I bet your key will work with a cuff that has a matching stamp. I will be curious to know, when you get the cuffs, if that is the case. Congratulations on a great deal on the cuffs!
-Richard Knip-

Thanks. Not sure when I will receive them but I will let you know.

Is there any info on their construction? I mean in terms of cast vs wrought vs drop forging or whatever?

I can find no additional information for the way the J.G. false backstraps were made. But, i did read in Alex Nicchols Handcuffs Vol1. book that R.C.S. false backstraps were drop forged. If i hold my R.C.S. next to my J.G. false backstrap darbys, they look the same to me, as far as construction goes. They weigh about the same as well. I think it is safe to say that the J.G. are drop forged as well. Im sure I will be corrected by someone, if they have information that says otherwise?

One side note of interest. Both the R.C.S. and the J.G. false backstrap darby handcuffs came with 2 original keys per set. It is surprising how many get sold, that still have both original keys with them! I always found that to be a bit strange that a 70+ year old cuff would retain both original keys, through its years of use.
-Richard Knip-

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Sep 22, 2021

I can find no additional information for the way the J.G. false backstraps were made. But, i did read in Alex Nicchols Handcuffs Vol1. book that R.C.S. false backstraps were drop forged. If i hold my R.C.S. next to my J.G. false backstrap darbys, they look the same to me, as far as construction goes. They weigh about the same as well. I think it is safe to say that the J.G. are drop forged as well. Im sure I will be corrected by someone, if they have information that says otherwise?

One side note of interest. Both the R.C.S. and the J.G. false backstrap darby handcuffs came with 2 original keys per set. It is surprising how many get sold, that still have both original keys with them! I always found that to be a bit strange that a 70+ year old cuff would retain both original keys, through its years of use.
-Richard Knip-

Click to expand...

My R.C.S came with 2 keys. But these JG have no key. I am just lucky (hopefully, assuming they are still functional) that a couple months ago I won a bid on a key of that number. Does the RCS military key work on the JG military cuffs?

With the pairs I have, the keys do not cross and work on the other brand cuffs. But, the numbers do not match either. My J.G. is Key #2270 and my R.C.S. is #2160. So, that may have something to do with the keys not working? I do not not how the number designation works for the different brands?
-Richard Knip-

Hmm, I was wondering if British military had a different-than-hiatt but standard key. My RCS key has finer threading than my Hiatt key and the JG key has similar looking fine threading, though with a more chunky key and a bit weird on the inside. Good to know though. It would be ideal if the keys are interchangible  but from your experience I doubt mine will be.

Well, to add to the confusion a bit, my R.C.S. are not broad arrow stamped, but my J.G. is. So, maybe the military contracts were given a different key threading?
-Richard Knip-

Hmm I shall let you know what happens with mine. Both my R.C.S that I have and the JG that I only won a bid on earlier today both are broad arrow marked. I'd measure the inner width of the JG key I have but the threaded part is off-set farther back in the key, whereas all my other Darby keys have the threading starting immediately from the very front of the key. So I shall give it a gingerly try and see if it works but if I get any grit or resistance I am halting that experiment. I don't want to destroy either the cuffs or keys.

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Sep 22, 2021

Well, to add to the confusion a bit, my R.C.S. are not broad arrow stamped, but my J.G. is. So, maybe the military contracts were given a different key threading?
-Richard Knip-

I have them. A very nice pair! Pity they are a bit too tight, but I should be able to do a basic video but I won't be doing any behind back views though, they are tight! I did try the R.C.S military key but it was a no-go.

But at least I have 1 key for them, which is good. But I will be hunting for another key.

Hi SbD,
I can't post pictures of my Hiatts 1954 vintage on utube so I'll have a go here, I'm new to this forum so treat me gently!

The pictures have a very "brown tinge" but in real life the wax has brought the patina to a far more grey colour! Hope these help.

Those do look nice. Could you show me a picture of what the threading looks like on the key? My J.G pair have a bit on the inside with no threading, then the threading starts a bit deeper inside the key.

The bottom of your key look nice and rounded like my R.C.S key.

The best I can do SbD....thread begins immediately. There are no other markings on the key except "Hiatt" as in the previous pictures.

cuffgirl195 wrote: ↑

Sep 27, 2021

The best I can do SbD....thread begins immediately. There are no other markings on the key except "Hiatt" as in the previous pictures.

I am not sure if my key would be the same as yours. They look a bit different. Though KE 2770 is a bit odd and specific if they weren't the same. Below is what mine looks like. Perhaps someone else has info on this 2770 inter-operability thing?

It would be interesting to find out. The more knowledge I gain on these antique cuffs the more interested I become. I was hunting around earlier on ebay and there are some shockers out there!!!

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

There are some good ones floating around. I just wish these Military ones I got were a tad larger size. But these are the only chunky/fat/heavy Military darbies I have come across and I was lucky to both win them (without a key) and the fact that a key I ordered hoping would fit some normal Hiatts, instead actually fit these lol. Luck, luck, luck. Except the size :(

As I said elsewhere SbD, a slim wristed cuffgirl would take them off your hands/wrists

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Haha, true. I'm not opposed to the idea but since these are the only heavy/chunky/fat British military darbies in my collection, I wouldn't really want to part with them at this time lol. They are sitting on my little Militaria shelf along with my Grandpa's old WW1 / WW2 training bayonet, inert training grenade, his marching compass and other more modern things I have acquired over the years. These J.G darby cuffs look more beefy and macho than the R.C.S military ones I have which look more sleek and thin.

It has always been considered that the KE number, usually on the end of RCS cuffs, is the military contract number. Unless I am mistaken, we now have a cast JG false backstrap and a normal steel Hiatt both marked KE 2770. (And British Made on a 1954 cuff which seems unusual ) That suggests to me that Hiatt were having trouble fulfilling the contract order and subcontracted to others who made the cheaper, easier, quicker cast cuffs.

cuffgirl195 wrote: ↑

Sep 27, 2021

Hi SbD,
I can't post pictures of my Hiatts 1954 vintage on utube so I'll have a go here, I'm new to this forum so treat me gently!

The pictures have a very "brown tinge" but in real life the wax has brought the patina to a far more grey colour! Hope these help.

 Hi there. I now have a similar pair to these of yours. Mine are 1949, the size "1" is stamped the other way around so that if they lay flat on the table the number is oriented normally to read. Mine has British Made on the right side near the locking hole and the year on the left side. But instead of KE 2770 mine has 216/245 and I have no idea what this means. On one side of the hinge on one cuff it has a broad arrow with 20 stamped directly under it, right over the circular rivet/rod part. I have no idea what the significance/meaning is of that either. I know from a later reply that the KE 2770 is considered a contract number and that two manufacturers we are aware of made cuffs with those markings, but is it possible that mine with the 216/245 is a similar kind of thing like a contract number? Also what might the /|\ 20 mean on mine?

If anyone has any ideas on what any of these markings could mean, I'd appreciate it.

I just received a nice pair of similar RCS backstrap Darby cuffs.  Markings include "81", "RCS", "1941", "3". Broad arrow military mark with "13", and three dots.  Key is also marked "81".  I understand most of the markings except for the three dots.  I had a similar pair of JG cuffs in the past and they were quite small.  This pair of RCS cuffs seem to be slightly larger.  Any thoughts on what the three dots might mean?  Thanks,  Steve

stevech wrote: ↑

Jun 18, 2023

I just received a nice pair of similar RCS backstrap Darby cuffs.  Markings include "81", "RCS", "1941", "3". Broad arrow military mark with "13", and three dots.  Key is also marked "81".  I understand most of the markings except for the three dots.  I had a similar pair of JG cuffs in the past and they were quite small.  This pair of RCS cuffs seem to be slightly larger.  Any thoughts on what the three dots might mean?  Thanks,  Steve

I believe the dots are size. Some have them and some do not. If yours has 3 dots, I would guess either they are a small or a large. Normally darby handcuff sizes tend to be small medium or large.

I checked the key for my 1941 RCS Darby cuffs.  For those with an interest the thread count is 12 threads per inch (TPI) and the diameter is .250.  This is the same TPI as many (but not all) Hiatt Darby 104 cuffs.  Some Hiatts have a smaller diameter but 12 TPI is quite common.  So, if you have the right Hiatt Darby key it should work in the RCS Backstrap Darby cuffs.   I am using one of my hand made taps to make a second key for my cuffs.  Hope this helps,  Steve

stevech wrote: ↑

Jun 19, 2023

I checked the key for my 1941 RCS Darby cuffs.  For those with an interest the thread count is 12 threads per inch (TPI) and the diameter is .250.  This is the same TPI as many (but not all) Hiatt Darby 104 cuffs.  Some Hiatts have a smaller diameter but 12 TPI is quite common.  So, if you have the right Hiatt Darby key it should work in the RCS Backstrap Darby cuffs.   I am using one of my hand made taps to make a second key for my cuffs.  Hope this helps,  Steve

It's not just the teeth per inch but also the pitch. When I had a pair like that, Hiatt keys did not work in it. I could screw in so far and then it stops. I had to source a different key.

Pitch is not an issue for none machine threads. 

I went ahead and made a second key for the 1941 RCS Darby cuffs.  Thanks to Ian McColl who explained to me several years ago how to make your own taps to then make Darby keys.  Photo shows the original key on the left and my attempt on the right.  I used gunsmithing Plum Brown Finish to try to get a similar appearance.  Steve  

stevech wrote: ↑

Jun 21, 2023

.  Thanks to Ian McColl   

Thank you

stevech wrote: ↑

Jun 21, 2023

I went ahead and made a second key for the 1941 RCS Darby cuffs.  Thanks to Ian McColl who explained to me several years ago how to make your own taps to then make Darby keys.  Photo shows the original key on the left and my attempt on the right.  I used gunsmithing Plum Brown Finish to try to get a similar appearance.  Steve  

You did a great job, Steve! Nice looking key!
-Richard Knip-

stevech wrote: ↑

Jun 21, 2023

I went ahead and made a second key for the 1941 RCS Darby cuffs.  Thanks to Ian McColl who explained to me several years ago how to make your own taps to then make Darby keys.  Photo shows the original key on the left and my attempt on the right.  I used gunsmithing Plum Brown Finish to try to get a similar appearance.  Steve  

Nice job! Ron J

Very professional looking key. Great job.

Spencer